Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[PACOX]

Does Trump do anything?

DO SOMETHING!

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...ation-job.HTML

Not like she was relevant anyway but Omarosa is gone.

And another one bites the dust. Dun Dun Dun. Another bites thr dust.

[Ripster42]

I have nothing to prove it but I could swear that this weird beat-up over "Happy Holidays" is only 10-15 years old.

https://www.snopes.com/2017/11/29/the-war-on-christmas/

It comes and goes, and it's always related to xenophobia.

[Breccia]

Not like she was relevant anyway but Omarosa is gone.

Not sure which makes this the most relevant:
a) She was an Apprentice. Anyone who said Trump wouldn't run his admin like a reality show has to eat that.
b) She was, to the best of my knowledge, the last African American woman in Trump's admin and left the same day 98% of African American women rejected Trump's endorsed candidate.
c) She is, with full sarcastic hyperbole, the 125,614th Trump communications employee to quit.

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Another religious figure has said they won't meet Pence due to the --

"Pfft, another Muslim? Go figure."

A Christian. Or, at least, someone trusted by the Christian faith to safeguard one of their most holy sites.

The official custodian in charge of one of the most sacred sites in Christianity will not welcome Vice President Pence when he visits the Old City of Jerusalem this month.

“It has come to our attention that Vice President Pence intends to make an official visit to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, and asked me to receive him officially,” Adeeb Joudeh, who is responsible for the keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, wrote in a letter on Wednesday, according to Israel's Channel 2 News.

“I absolutely refuse to officially welcome the American Vice President Mr. Mike Pence at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and I will not be physically in church during his visit," he continued.

“This is an expression of my condemnation of President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

Ouch.

[Edge-]

Does Trump do anything?

DO SOMETHING!

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...ation-job.HTML

Not like she was relevant anyway but Omarosa is gone.

And another one bites the dust. Dun Dun Dun. Another bites thr dust.

Well, at least she won't be having her wedding party show up for photo's in the West Wing unannounced and unapproved. And they won't have to make up excuses for what she does, because nobody actually even knows what it is she does on a daily basis.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/no-one...seeven-omarosa

Relevant article for how completely useless people like her are.

[Breccia]

Hey remember that guy Trump nominated for a federal judge spot who never tried a case?

Withdrawn.

Trump goes zero for three in Alabama. And twice in 24 hours.

[Paranoid Android]

Hey remember that guy Trump nominated for a federal judge spot who never tried a case?

Withdrawn.

Trump goes zero for three in Alabama. And twice in 24 hours.

I mean if this guy would have gotten thru then it's Bill Maher, Jimmy Kimmel and George Takei for next Federal judges.

[Kujako]

Hey remember that guy Trump nominated for a federal judge spot who never tried a case?

Withdrawn.

Trump goes zero for three in Alabama. And twice in 24 hours.

No, no... Trump's tweet today states VERY clearly that he knew that Moore could never win, which was why he didn't support him. So that other guy, who looked and sounded like Trump who was actively campaigning for Moore was just the Trumpelganger again.

[Breccia]

Not like she was relevant anyway but Omarosa is gone.

Holy shit, she was fired, dragged out kicking and screaming obscenities.

April Ryan: Omarosa fired by Kelly, escorted out of White House

[Edge-]

Holy shit, she was fired, dragged out kicking and screaming obscenities.

April Ryan: Omarosa fired by Kelly, escorted out of White House

I'm hoping someone caught that on video. Would be some delicious drama.

[mvaliz]

Well, at least she won't be having her wedding party show up for photo's in the West Wing unannounced and unapproved. And they won't have to make up excuses for what she does, because nobody actually even knows what it is she does on a daily basis.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/no-one...seeven-omarosa

Relevant article for how completely useless people like her are.

Isn't it obvious how this went down?

Dumbass Dump: "God Damnit Omarosa! You were supposed to get me the Black vote! How the hell did I lose the black vote in Alabama!?"

Omarosa: "Wait... how in the Hell does..."

Dumbass Dump: "You're black! You like me! Therefore they were supposed to like me! You all are supposed to like the same shit - fried chicken, watermellons and all that crap, right?"

Omarosa: "Woah, woah... now wait just one fuc...."

Dumbass Dump: "Too late, fired!"

[Breccia]

Isn't it obvious how this went down?

Funny, but allow me to offer what I think is a slightly more realistic and therefore less funny option:

Gen. Kelly: What is your job, exactly?
Omarosa: Well I...uh...
Gen. Kelly: You'll need this cardboard box.

[mvaliz]

Funny, but allow me to offer what I think is a slightly more realistic and therefore less funny option:

Gen. Kelly: What is your job, exactly?
Omarosa: Well I...uh...
Gen. Kelly: You'll need this cardboard box.

Funny, they both read the same to me for some reason. >.>

;P

[Breccia]

And since the knives are out, let's talk about carving Turkey.

As expected, Turkey said it was out of the question for the US to have any say in Middle East peace talks. They join...um...everyone in the area.

But also, Turkey has summoned an FBI agent to talk about that guy who helped Turkey illegally help Iran smuggle forbidden goods.

Wow, relations with Turkey are the lowest they've ever been since Flynn left. Didn't Trump say he had a good relationship with Erdogan a couple months back?

Unrelated: GOP lawmaker: Trump isn't making it easier for GOP to keep majority

The day after a Democrat won a Senate seat in Alabama for the first time in a quarter-century, Rep. Mike Simpson (R-Idaho) suggested that Republicans might have a better shot at remaining in power if they can show voters next year that they can govern.

Republicans have yet to fulfill any of their major campaign promises after 11 months of across-the-board control of Washington, but are aiming to send Trump their tax overhaul next week.

“A lot of it still depends on what happens next year. If we get some things done, maybe [we'll] improve our chances,” Simpson told reporters in the Capitol.

But Trump, Simpson said, isn’t helping when he keeps stirring controversy.

“He’s making it very, very difficult. ‘Cause all the news about his latest tweet, what he says, and then he gets mad at us because we don’t defend it,” Simpson said with exasperation.

[Felya]

”He’s making it very, very difficult. ‘Cause all the news about his latest tweet, what he says, and then he gets mad at us because we don’t defend it,” Simpson said with exasperation

This needs to be highlighted...

[Breccia]

WORST. NUMBERS. EVER.

FiveThirtyEight now has Trump at the lowest he's ever been ever ever. They might come back up, but this is still yet another record in Trump's under one year term.

Why? Women.

The most recent poll is from MonMouth at 32%, their lowest ever. And the biggest drop was the women vote. In September, 36% of women approved of Trump's job. Now it's 24%. That's right: Trump lost a third of his remaining women.

And how, pray tell, did that happen? Here's the thing: we can't be sure.

Was it endorsing child rapist and blatant misogynist Roy Moore?

Was it the "she would do anything" tweet?

Was it more accusers coming forward, like this NHL player's wife, who says Trump hit on her in an elevator? Or the original ones coming forward again?

That's the thing. With anyone else, no really anyone else, we would know the single event that caused such a massive drop. Trump has so much running against him, it's impossible to tell.

And, get this, the poll covers Dec 10-12. Trump hadn't lost yet. I mean, Moore hadn't lost yet.

Poll numbers wobble, that's standard, and expect this to claw back up. But that dip couldn't have hit record low, if he wasn't already dropping.

538 rates Monmouth as an A+ source of information.

[Skroe]

Palestinian president: No role for US in peace process

This follows the refusal to meet with Pence. He's also called Trump's unilateral announcement a "crime". This is just a continuation of evidence that Kushner's biggest job is now impossible, and Trump remains toxic due to his words and actions.

No man, you don't get it. Donald Trump giving away all leverage we have for free and taking our moral authority and setting it on fire is part of his grand... wait no, what's the PR-friendly word we use now days.... ah yes... BOLD!.... his BOLD NEW Negotiation approach.

It's called 'America rolls over and fucking dies.'

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WORST. NUMBERS. EVER.

FiveThirtyEight now has Trump at the lowest he's ever been ever ever. They might come back up, but this is still yet another record in Trump's under one year term.

Why? Women.

The most recent poll is from MonMouth at 32%, their lowest ever. And the biggest drop was the women vote. In September, 36% of women approved of Trump's job. Now it's 24%. That's right: Trump lost a third of his remaining women.

And how, pray tell, did that happen? Here's the thing: we can't be sure.

Was it endorsing child rapist and blatant misogynist Roy Moore?

Was it the "she would do anything" tweet?

Was it more accusers coming forward, like this NHL player's wife, who says Trump hit on her in an elevator? Or the original ones coming forward again?

That's the thing. With anyone else, no really anyone else, we would know the single event that caused such a massive drop. Trump has so much running against him, it's impossible to tell.

And, get this, the poll covers Dec 10-12. Trump hadn't lost yet. I mean, Moore hadn't lost yet.

Poll numbers wobble, that's standard, and expect this to claw back up. But that dip couldn't have hit record low, if he wasn't already dropping.

538 rates Monmouth as an A+ source of information.

Yep. It's notable it's skewed up by Rasmussen's usual fun with numbers.

[Breccia]

Donald Trump giving away all leverage we have for free

Pfft, you sound just like Reuters saying Putin will lead Syria to a UN peaceful resolution, aka "Russia wins".

[Skroe]

You've all seen by now, Trump signed an E.O. -- well, "directive" really -- ordering NASA to return to the moon.

Now, I'm all in favor of science, even science you can dare the Vice President to touch. But, well,
1) Trump ordered NASA's budget cut. It seems unlikely they'll be able to do what they've been doing, and also get to the moon, with less money. While Trump's budget never came to be, this new directive came with no money.
2) When Trump turned to the White House Science Advisor to say a few words, he replied "I don't exist". When reporters asked Trump's nominee for the OSTP post, she replied "I don't exist, either."
3) The directive says we need to go to the moon "for long-term exploration and use" which sounds questionable.
4) Until Pence said this would “enhance our national security and our capacity to provide for the common defense” which sounds even more questionable. At best, you could argue that we could send people and/or things into space on American rockets, and that would be more secure, but I'm pretty sure we could do that without returning to a lifeless ball of grey dust with no natural resources.
5) Trump also said “This is very exciting and very important for our country and it also happens to mean jobs." NASA employs under 18,000 people. Even if they doubled that -- to roughly the 1960's level, when NASA actually did put people on the moon -- and even if they did so instantly, that's about 8% of one month's growth during Obama, or about 10% of what was lost in one hurricane this year.

Oh man, this is my shit here. Let's take this from the top.

You've all seen by now, Trump signed an E.O. -- well, "directive" really -- ordering NASA to return to the moon.

The US was going to Lunar Orbit in the 2020s anyway, thanks to the SLS, which, per my Space posts, is pretty much the creation of Congress. In a very roundabout way, it is the incarnation of George W Bush's post-Columbia Vision for Space Exploration (Moon, Mars and Beyond), but really, it was an act of congress to keep space-sector jobs in Flordia, Alabama, Lousiana, Maryland and Texas post-Shuttle Shutdown.

In terms of "going to the moon", Trump is essentially doing what he is doing best, which is taking credit for things other people did years ago.

Now there are four caveats with this.

(1) The SLS Block I and Block II can do Lunar Missions on their own - Block II is bigger than Saturn V and Block I is just smaller. However, again per my NASA threads, it would take 9 to 11 SLS Block II flights to construct the Mars mission vehicles in orbit, for a single mission (basically a space vehicle + lander and so forth that amounts to 2/3rds the mass of the ISS). A lunar mission has, as a result, always been tempting to do because it's far more economical than a Mars mission in the near term, especially when an SLS launch will be between $500 million and $1 billion per launch, depending how you count it.

(2) One thing NASA did not plan for, and as of right now, are not, is a Lunar Lander. That is a $5 billion vehicle, right there. In fact, one of the last things cut as part of the Bush Era Project Constellation (the implementation of the Vision for Space Exploration), was the lunar lander, because NASA could finance the rockets (Ares I and Ares V), the capsule (Orion), but not those plus the lander. Is Trump ready to throw down money for a lander? Probably not. Most of the engineering work is done for what its worth.

(3) NASA is already in deep planning for the Deep Space Gateway Space Station that will be either in Lunar Orbit or Earth-Moon L2, which will be a staging ground for mars missions. This is almost certainly the next thing NASA will build after the ISS at this point. it's a smaller Space Station, but more situated for short term stays and prototyping of Mars mission hardware. Landing on the Moon plays little role in this.

(4) Space X is going to do Lunar orbits faster and cheaper, because the Falcon Heavy is between 1/6th and 1/4th the price of a SLS Block I.

3) The directive says we need to go to the moon "for long-term exploration and use" which sounds questionable.

We do, largely because China plans on basically claiming it. It has strategic value.

4) Until Pence said this would “enhance our national security and our capacity to provide for the common defense” which sounds even more questionable. At best, you could argue that we could send people and/or things into space on American rockets, and that would be more secure, but I'm pretty sure we could do that without returning to a lifeless ball of grey dust with no natural resources.

The Moon has exceptional resources, but that is not the reason to do it. Pence is arguing something that Newt Gingrich has said for years, that I agree with. The US needs to build colonies on the Moon (and Mars). it needs to do it because the Outer Space Treaty, a terrible document that never should have been signed and has retarded space exploration, will not hold forever.

As technology improves, countries will develop manned space flight through cheaper means, and that will lead, in time, to seizing territory in violation of the OST.

The US should do it first. We always should have. Particularly Mars. After a few exploration missions, we should send people there on one-way trips to live.

5) Trump also said “This is very exciting and very important for our country and it also happens to mean jobs." NASA employs under 18,000 people. Even if they doubled that -- to roughly the 1960's level, when NASA actually did put people on the moon -- and even if they did so instantly, that's about 8% of one month's growth during Obama, or about 10% of what was lost in one hurricane this year.

Most of 'NASA' is handled by contractors. What contractors? The same ones that people who rail against the "defense budget" want to deprive money of essentially. The SLS is being built by Boeing and Lockheed Martin, along with Orbital ATK (now Northrop Grumman). SpaceX's bread and butter is national security launches of the Falcon 9.

The Space Shuttle for example? It was put in private hands in the 1980s, operated by United Space Alliance, a public-private partnership of several military industrial complex companies.

It is a far better model than making everyone a NASA employee. NASA's biggest problem isn't it's work force. It's it's organization. It needs to be broken up and fundamentally reorganized. See my space threads about that.

NASA is a deeply sick agency and has been for years. George W. Bush tasked it with a huge task, but with no support. Obama was actively destructive towards it. And Trump is naming a fucking Representative and Aerospace Museum curator as NASA Administration.

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It also sounds like a blatant violation of the Outer Space Treaty, which (to quote Wikipedia) "exclusively limits the use of the Moon and other celestial bodies to peaceful purposes and expressly prohibits their use for testing weapons of any kind, conducting military maneuvers, or establishing military bases, installations, and fortifications." Trump's directive could also potentially violate the Moon Treaty, which (to quote Wikipedia again) "was created to restrict the exploitation of the Moon's resources by any single nation."

It is. And we should have left the Outer Space Treaty years ago.

It is a genuinely terrible document that has done more to destroy any development of a space economy than any other single action in the world.

Congress has been on the verge of de-facto leaving it for years (through legislating direct violations into existence) because it's prevented any kind of economic case for Space. The problem is that the OST is tied into preventing Exo-atmospheric or high altitude Nuclear Weapons test (i.e. like Starfish Prime).

But it may ultimately be worth the cost, because the US is going to have to develop Space Based Missile Defense and Orbital Attack in coming years anyway, which means we'll be violating the treaty.

[Breccia]

Oh man, this is my shit here.

Thanks for the information, as always, interesting stuff.

[Skroe]

Thanks for the information, as always, interesting stuff.

One of the more nausiating things I've had my eye on for the past couple of years is how if Trump were to win (and now he has) his 2020 re-election would be timed with some pretty historic and great America-in-Space stuff that started, depending how you count it, either in 2005, 2011 or 2012 and has absolutely nothing to do with him.

Same shit with Nixon. Nixon killed project Apollo and tried to kill the Space Shuttle. But his signature is on the plaque where Apollo 11 landed, because he was the inheritor of a program that got most of the way there under Lyndon Johnson.

Trump getting a boost because Americans orbit the Moon in the SLS would be nauseating.

Good thing is, SpaceX will probably do it first at this point. A crane snapped this year and destroyed the bottom part of the SLS Block I's tank, creating a 6+ month program delay and requiring an entire rebuild of it.