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  1. #21
    There's a shorter way to make your topic "Why I want Vanilla"

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ablock87 View Post
    Reward for effort. Today, there really is no incentive to play more than at a casual level other than maybe a mythic-specific mount, but vanilla had real acomplishments, like Rank 14, race to ring the AQ gong, hard-to-attain legendaries, etc.

    Unique classes. Every class had their place, their strengths and weaknesses. It wasn't badly balanced, it was good class design. A paladin offered great heals and the best buffs in the game at the cost of DPS. Rogues were good DPS at the cost of utility.

    I agree with everything except these 2. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it isn't an incentive to play. I know plenty of people who play strictly for bragging rights in M+ leaderboards. Some people find that enough, not all rewards have to be physical and to a lot of people that's acceptable to them.

    Class design was atrocious in Vanilla if you're actually going to sit there and say otherwise you didn't play through Vanilla when it actually came out. The fact that specs were in the game that weren't viable in any regard is shit design, when only 1 class can tank there's a problem, when a class has 4 specs and 3 of them are "the wrong option" from a community standpoint, that's bad design.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Indeed I am one who did have even more responsibilities back then, than I have today. (I am one of the older players and forum members here) And I still don't want Classic back, cry about how great it was and will definitely not play on the Classic servers
    I'm the opposite, I had the responsibilities back then but I'm looking forward to it. Granted for me it's less to do with anything specific to that time other than I like the older style of MMO game development and the odd ball design choices that developers made back then.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    I agree with everything except these 2. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it isn't an incentive to play. I know plenty of people who play strictly for bragging rights in M+ leaderboards. Some people find that enough, not all rewards have to be physical and to a lot of people that's acceptable to them.

    Class design was atrocious in Vanilla if you're actually going to sit there and say otherwise you didn't play through Vanilla when it actually came out. The fact that specs were in the game that weren't viable in any regard is shit design, when only 1 class can tank there's a problem, when a class has 4 specs and 3 of them are "the wrong option" from a community standpoint, that's bad design.
    They were the wrong option from a raiding stand point, almost all of the specs could be played and often were in content outside of that. Heck some were preferred in certain parts of the game over the " viable " option from raiding. Frankly the biggest issue I have with most of the Classic discussion is that it is driven from a raiding mindset, which is humorous considering the vast majority of players in Vanilla never raided to begin with.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    I added some *opinion* to your list of opinions.
    I've fixed that for you.
    It's high noon.
    Personality: INTJ

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    The original comment was this:

    It was not about the "fun" that you mention. Those are 2 very different things. Something can be well made, the best thing ever created and bring you no fun. On the other hand, there are people who get off by having people shit in their mouth.

    The quality of a game(or anything else in the world) can be judged in an unbiased way regardless of how fun or how boring it is to the player. It's all a matter of disconnecting yourself from your tastes, opinions and belief in order to see things for what they truly are.
    Nothing in there pertains to actual data, otherwise youd have a shallower grave because numbers have dropped ever since.

    Again, HOW YOU PERSONALLY FEEL IS WHAT IS CALLED AN 'OPINION' A FORMULATION OF BOTH AESTHETIC AND REAL LIFE KNOWLEDGE GOES INTO THIS.


    There are no right answers, except that what you feel is facts. Thats wrong because they arent.

    Edit: also im not op. I dont think i had any pony in this race other than you confusing personal feelings with facts.

    Also, i did enjoy you adding some opinions about the game. I understand you enjoy your 'QoL' changes that really arent about quality, just quantity.
    Last edited by Sorcath; 2017-12-13 at 09:40 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    I believe that everything someone says is automatically an opinion and nothing can be a fact unless it agrees with me.
    It's okay I fixed yours too.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    To me, the great thing about Classic was this: I (and most in my guild) were new to the MMO genre. Hell, we were even new to playing a game online at all. Sure, there were some private Diablo2 games and we had a little community of 10 ppl there, but WoW just blew our collective minds.

    And you had to figure almost everything out. It took me almost a year until I found out about sites like Thottbot or Alhakazam. Nothing was spoiled, I didn't even follow patch cycles, didn't know what was in them, because the forum I visited didn't datamine anything like ppl do now.

    Then, when we raided, we barely had addons, barely had guides. This here http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/thread-6609.html became one of the most intriguing reads for me.

    And this feeling can just never be captured again. Not the innocence, the newbness, the walking in the dark and figuring it all out together with others who are as clueless and new and walk the world with open mouths
    See my entire guild and several others on Shattered Hand came from SWG so it wasn't our first rodeo. That feeling yall had I got from Pre-CU SWG, and oddly like you I can't go back to it even though there has been a private server for it for several years. Vanilla WoW was fun, but the only reason I played it was because SOE destroyed SWG and all of my friends came to WoW. That said though I am looking forward to it, and I was one that said for years I would never ever want to play it again, but a private server proved me wrong on that one.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcath View Post
    Nothing in there pertains to actual data, otherwise youd have a shallower grave because numbers have dropped ever since.

    Again, HOW YOU PERSONALLY FEEL IS WHAT IS CALLED AN 'OPINION' A FORMULATION OF BOTH AESTHETIC AND REAL LIFE KNOWLEDGE GOES INTO THIS.


    There are no right answers, except that what you feel is facts. Thats wrong because they arent.
    But it's not how I feel. I loved vanilla more than legion. That's my feeling, my opinion. But I'm able to disconnect myself from that and see vanilla for what it really was. You are not able to do that, that's why you think that my statement is just opinions. It's not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcath View Post
    Nothing in there pertains to actual data, otherwise youd have a shallower grave because numbers have dropped ever since.

    Again, HOW YOU PERSONALLY FEEL IS WHAT IS CALLED AN 'OPINION' A FORMULATION OF BOTH AESTHETIC AND REAL LIFE KNOWLEDGE GOES INTO THIS.


    There are no right answers, except that what you feel is facts. Thats wrong because they arent.

    Edit: also im not op. I dont think i had any pony in this race other than you confusing personal feelings with facts.

    Also, i did enjoy you adding some opinions about the game. I understand you enjoy your 'QoL' changes that really arent about quality, just quantity.
    Because you edited stuff:
    Again, you understand wrong. I hate the QoL movement and don't want it to happen. I'm a purist who also happen to know the fact that vanilla was pretty fucking broken and messed up on several levels because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and embellished memories like most people.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    It's okay I fixed yours too.
    Pi = 3.14....... This is a fact.
    Gravity is time and space. Fact
    Mechanically unplayable via x reason - Fact.


    I hate this- Opinion
    I dont like this - Opinion
    QoL this - Opinion


    Pretty much every time you have to preface a comment with 'This is how x feels about y' its an opinion. There are only analysis of WHY an individual dislikes the game, not their understanding of mechanics or how to solve that.

    You seem to be easily confused that perception is a meaningless venture when youre claiming facts(outside of how many people do or do not like x thing, which inWoW that means more people like the original, tbc and lk more than every other expansion;save legion)

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    But it's not how I feel. I loved vanilla more than legion. That's my feeling, my opinion. But I'm able to disconnect myself from that and see vanilla for what it really was. You are not able to do that, that's why you think that my statement is just opinions. It's not.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because you edited stuff:
    Again, you understand wrong. I hate the QoL movement and don't want it to happen. I'm a purist who also happen to know the fact that vanilla was pretty fucking broken and messed up on several levels because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and embellished memories like most people.
    Maybe not, but most of what you have posted is mostly opinion or what you on a personal level have experienced. Very little of it has been based in actual fact outside of some of the stuff like bad itemization.

    For instance, someone's age and how long they have been playing the game has no bearing on how many hours they should be playing now. That is strictly your opinion on the matter.

  12. #32
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    The reason is, that people have a longing wish to relive the golden days in belief it'll ignite for them once more. The world of our home, new or old, has no argument of better or worse but all have their connections to the point they start, and others have wishes to experience the birth of it. Nostalgia, even though people disagree, is part of the reason as well but it isn't the fuel - it is the spark.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload
    i like vanilla...
    Well all Ive seen is complaints over percievable things from you. Being a vanilla raider I know the problems raiding had. I was just waiting for you to say something but all I saw was "i dont enjoy this"

    Believe me, there are comprehensive lists of all the broken shit im game. Will that stop me from rolling vanilla? Fuck no. Do I think vanilla would be better if purists let them tweak it? Fuck yes. But thats a slippery slope. Firat youallow them to fix gear( str cloth, agi plate), then you get transmogs, etc etc.

    Its just easier to enjoy something i still do( private servers) than to begin to change is, lile a hollywood director.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    I added some facts to your list of opinions.

    - - - Updated - - -
    "Facts"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    I agree with everything except these 2. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it isn't an incentive to play. I know plenty of people who play strictly for bragging rights in M+ leaderboards. Some people find that enough, not all rewards have to be physical and to a lot of people that's acceptable to them.

    Class design was atrocious in Vanilla if you're actually going to sit there and say otherwise you didn't play through Vanilla when it actually came out. The fact that specs were in the game that weren't viable in any regard is shit design, when only 1 class can tank there's a problem, when a class has 4 specs and 3 of them are "the wrong option" from a community standpoint, that's bad design.
    Well, I actually not only played when it was out, I played its entirety and cleared Naxx. People are incredibly hyperbolic when they say "X spec was atrocious dog shit."

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcath View Post
    Pi = 3.14....... This is a fact.
    Gravity is time and space. Fact
    Mechanically unplayable via x reason - Fact.


    I hate this- Opinion
    I dont like this - Opinion
    QoL this - Opinion


    Pretty much every time you have to preface a comment with 'This is how x feels about y' its an opinion. There are only analysis of WHY an individual dislikes the game, not their understanding of mechanics or how to solve that.

    You seem to be easily confused that perception is a meaningless venture when youre claiming facts(outside of how many people do or do not like x thing, which inWoW that means more people like the original, tbc and lk more than every other expansion;save legion)
    I have not prefaced anything with what you just said. Like I already mentioned, YOU see it as opinions.

    Think of it this way:
    Me: Pi = 3.14....
    You: no that's your opinion

    That's what is happening right now, you're not able to accept the fact that I present to you. Facts are not just "things that are widely known". Facts are simply things that are true regardless of your own knowledge. Facts don't "become facts" once "enough evidence" is brought up, they are facts before people know they are facts because they are a truth of our reality. Not many people can see it because they're all slaves of their own perceptions, but it's completely pointless to argue against it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    You literally posted 0 facts. Yeah, so to be super clear, you posted no facts. Show me the facts, with citations, because all I see is your counter-opinion.
    If I tell you an apple is a fruit, is it a fact?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The reason is, that people have a longing wish to relive the golden days in belief it'll ignite for them once more. The world of our home, new or old, has no argument of better or worse but all have their connections to the point they start, and others have wishes to experience the birth of it. Nostalgia, even though people disagree, is part of the reason as well but it isn't the fuel - it is the spark.
    See I disagree, I think very few want to relive the glory days, most just want to play the Vanilla version of WoW because there is something there that they liked about it. Heck I'll almost bet most people that raided back then have zero intentions of doing so once Classic goes live.

  17. #37
    You cannot, unfortunately, recreate any experience. Looking back, you will always have a critiqued memory of what you loved that innately excludes most of what you hated or were annoyed about that memory. Also, "disorganization" isn't innately a good thing, at all. All it does is add needless amount of time to something that has already been streamlined and perfected. For example, the vast majority of people don't use dialup internet simply because they like the connection dial-tone.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    Maybe not, but most of what you have posted is mostly opinion or what you on a personal level have experienced. Very little of it has been based in actual fact outside of some of the stuff like bad itemization.

    For instance, someone's age and how long they have been playing the game has no bearing on how many hours they should be playing now. That is strictly your opinion on the matter.
    How is, in your view, my comment about bad itemization more of a fact than everything else I listed?

    Through your eyes it's just me saying stuff, there's not more evidence in that statement than in any other. If anything, it can be more of an opinion, maybe having the wrong stats on gear is just the flavor of the game it should have stayed the entire time or change into making all stats useful to everyone.

    What I'm getting to is you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion. You got offended when I said that these were facts because you don't agree with them. Your immediate reflex was to call me out saying that they are not facts, because that's just easier to do than to be unbiased.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    The fuck are you talking about apples for? Don't try to deflect.

    Your counter to adblock was not factual. It was your anecdotal opinion.

    Your first sentence was "A good MMO doesn't require..." <--- Your opinion of what makes a good MMO is irrelevant.
    How the fuck is this my opinion? I am TELLING YOU what a good MMO does not require. What you should do is read what I type and learn instead of being offended.

    BTW I was not deflecting.
    When I tell you an apple is a fruit, you understand it's a fact only because you already know that. I don't have to convince you with tons of evidence and shit.
    When I tell you A good MMO doesn't require X or Y, you think it's an opinion just because you are not informed about the subject as well as I am. It doesn't mean it's not a fact, it only means you don't know about this subject as well as I do.

    Now let's go back to the first question but imagine you don't know ANYTHING about fruits. I tell you that an apple is a fruit. This time you don't agree with the fact because you don't have that knowledge. So you claim that what I say is an opinion. But it's still a fact in the reality that we live in, regardless of any evidence I would have to bring up to convince you, the statement "an apple is a fruit" is still a fact before you are informed and convinced.

    Right now you're just living in a lie and refuse to learn, nothing less, nothing more.

  20. #40
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    See I disagree, I think very few want to relive the glory days, most just want to play the Vanilla version of WoW because there is something there that they liked about it. Heck I'll almost bet most people that raided back then have zero intentions of doing so once Classic goes live.
    Nope, I am NOT aiming to waste time on raiding in Classic. It is more or less to be treated as a museum. Hehe. And you are allowed to disagree, gotta have room for opinions ^^
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

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