Thread: Ketogenic diet

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  1. #41
    Problem with keto is that its a binary diet - you are either in ketosis or you are not, there's no cutting corners.

    I've done it short term - about a month and a half - with amazing results, but I don't have the willpower to cut out carbs from my life long term because I love cocktails, and I have to socialize over drinks a lot for work, so low carb diets are basically out for me.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCDFreaK View Post
    Hello guys

    I would like to talk about the keto diet. I have lost weight doing it and it is probably the best diet in my opinion because of how it naturally suppresses a person's appetite. Can't lose weight without eating less calories of course!

    But the thing is people are still opposed to a diet that is high fat. There are people out there that have made this their way of eating as well and are perfectly healthy. Yet some refuse to accept it. Or most of the world actually.

    What is your opinion on this diet and fat in general? Should we still stick to the low fat idea?
    Low fat/high carb is the cause of the obesity epidemic and of a lot of health problems. People need to be eating MORE fat, not less. The "food pyramid" is a bunch of BS, it was created because cereal companies decided they weren't making enough money.

    So yes, keto is a great diet and a lot healthier than what most people eat. The people "opposed to it" are wrong, and have basically been brainwashed by cereal companies.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Serpha View Post
    Keto is fine for a short period of time. In the long run it's bad.
    http://www.eatbalanced.com/why-eat-b...we-need-fibre/
    Your'e supposed to eat plenty of fibre, not eating enough or none at all can be very dangerous. And since foods with high amount of fibre are also with high amount of carbs (fibre is carb) you don't get any on keto diet.
    Your choice.
    This seems to misunderstand a lot.

    Keto doesn't count fiber as a carb, in fact most people subtract fiber from any carb count in arriving at their daily macros. The point being it is understood to be necessary and important. Yes, it's a carb; but we ignore it.

    Another poster has noted eating a salad for lunch. I personally think vegetables make up the vast bulk of what I eat every day. I also eat high fat and moderate protein. What I don't do is eat any carbs that don't have a purpose. Carbs need to come with fiber, vitamins and minerals - so I eat lots of vegetables and almost zero stupid shit like a chocolate bar (maybe a Lily's occasionally). The recommendation is to generally eat less than 20-30 grams of carb a day, but I personally think someone that is fat adapted can readily go to 50 grams a day with little problem. Personally, I aim for under 30 grams but if I go higher some days I just don't care.

    Insoluble fiber is the only tricky thing to get, but many vegetables have it so I feel very free to skip EVERY grain. I eat zero grain. Psyllium husk is also a good source of insoluble fiber, as is flax seed. Plenty of ways to introduce that to one's diet.

    I think what gives this false impression of what Keto actually recommends is what I call "Bro Keto." Bro Keto is a subgroup of Keto dieters that lift weights and ultra-focus on proteins. The problem is that an excess of proteins can potentially become sugars (glucose) in the body. Of course, the lack of fiber has them continually complaining about constipation and other weird gastrointestinal ailments. Long story short, stupid people don't get how to do Keto wisely.
    Last edited by Louisa Bannon; 2017-12-13 at 03:36 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavian View Post
    Go eat nothing but oreos for a month and limit yourself to 100 calories less than your current maintenance calories then come back and tell us how much weight you lost. Also the keto 'diet' isn't really a fad diet. It's a lifestyle diet. If you are eating a ketogenic diet for a month to lose weight, then you are doing it horribly wrong and it's dangerous. If you eat that way consistently and stick to it, then it's fine, but that means keeping your carbs very low all the time. Also, ketosis is not a state of starvation. It's just a state by which your body is naturally utilizing fat as its primary fuel source because no carbohydrates are available to do so, which is okay unless you're sprinting for dear life from leopards or you're an athlete.
    Unless your body violates the laws of physics, you will lose weight if you burn more calories than you consume, no matter what you eat. Your body cannot cultivate mass out of nothing, kiddo.

    It doesn't matter if all you eat for a month is Cheetos, Mcdonalds, loaves of bread, tubs of lard, etc. If you limit your calorie intake and burn the same energy, you will weigh less. Though obviously your health will probably be in a sorry state in other areas if all you eat are Cheetos for a month.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Unless your body violates the laws of physics...
    Sorry, your reductionist and off point explanation leaves almost everything to be desired of it. Maybe next you can apply your notion of thermodynamics to a reading of Shakespeare.

    Next...

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    The most important aspect of a diet is consistency. People need a lot of willpower and they also need to be objective and consider whether or not any given diet is truly working for them. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make when it comes to dieting is trying to go cold turkey. It's better to slowly cut down on unhealthy habits, gradually replacing specific foods with healthier alternatives rather than simply jumping right into the deep end.

    I also think some people need to make peace with the idea that they can be notoriously fussy eaters. I know I am - and that there's some stuff that they just won't be able to stomach or enjoy no matter how hard they try.
    10 days into no artificial or added sugars here.

    I had to call out of work Friday I was so sick from the withdrawal.

    Looking forward to my December 25th cheat day though.


    Will probably start to cut out low quality breads and meats next.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I have had success with ketogenic dieting and intermittent fasting. I got to around 9% body fat without losing any muscle and strength on it last year.

    The problem is that I've also done this and put on more muscle while on a prototypical bodybuilder diet which is high carb, high protein, low fat. The logic behind keto and fasting is that you deplete your glycogen stores when you don't eat carbs for a certain period of time and your body burns fat instead of carbs as a result. The science behind it seems solid but I don't know how true that really is or how effective that makes it compared to a regular diet.

    Nutrition is the only scientific discipline I've ever seen where there is so little agreement on anything. Everyone used to say carbs were important but now keto is big and people get good results on it. Everyone used to say high animal protein was important but now vegans and vegetarians say it isn't (I think they are full of shit because they cherry pick evidence to fit their ideology).

    Diets that have completely different foods and macros seem to produce good results in different people. I would say try different diets and find one that works for you.
    Ketosis is basically survival mode kicking in, it's not a safe (or natural) state for the body to be in long term. Ketosis testing strips existed originally for people to tell when they were in it because that was a bad thing, now they're being used by people to see if they're doing the diet right.

    The issue is more what people are willing to do and what results they want because all diets work (at least for weight loss) as long as you do them. The problem is when you quit eating according to plan. My sister-in-law loves meat and cheese, so she did keto and I couldn't recommend another diet plan for her due to dietary preferences. I tried Atkins back in the day and it was the most miserable thing I ever did to myself. Most of the weight I lost was from fasting because I didn't want to eat any of the allowed foods so I would often choose to simply not eat. Now I eat high carb/low fat and it's effortless. I get to eat all the foods I enjoy and lose/maintain weight.

    As for the supposed health benefits of keto, calorie restriction often produces the same results. Now that more people are trying intermittent fasting I think they're discovering doing keto isn't necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by OCDFreaK View Post
    I have to agree with this. Doctors seem to know nothing about nutrition. My doctor for example still thinks you must exercise to lose weight.

    It's a shame that the nutrition field is so hectic. You can find arguments and studies for and against low fat while at the same with low carb. I wonder if anyone does low protein? Heh.

    The way I see it, low carb (so basically high fat) is a fine diet for primarily sedentary individuals as you don't have to deal with afternoon crashes or feeling exhausted throughout the day. A person that is active and does physically demanding jobs and activities benefits more from a high carb diet.

    I feel like we need a few more years for people to really catch up with fat. Until then, I think we should keep an open mind to it.
    Doctors aren't trained in nutrition. They get maybe an hour about it throughout medical school and what they learn is funded by industry.

    I've been doing 80/10/10 (carbs/protein/fat) and have lost 70 pounds with a sedentary lifestyle. I've felt more energetic than ever and have never experienced any crashes. Maybe people who are still eating refined carbs/sugars do, but I mostly stick to whole foods. I felt awful when I tried low carb/high fat. Lethargic, fatigued, etc.
    "We must now recognize that the greatest threat of freedom for us all is if we go back to eating ourselves out from within." - John Anderson

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Serpha View Post
    Keto is fine for a short period of time. In the long run it's bad.
    http://www.eatbalanced.com/why-eat-b...we-need-fibre/
    Your'e supposed to eat plenty of fibre, not eating enough or none at all can be very dangerous. And since foods with high amount of fibre are also with high amount of carbs (fibre is carb) you don't get any on keto diet.
    Your choice.
    Fiber doesn't break down into sugar. Even if it did, as long as you stay below 50 grams of carbs a day you won't break keto.
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    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Ketosis is basically survival mode kicking in, it's not a safe (or natural) state for the body to be in long term. Ketosis testing strips existed originally for people to tell when they were in it because that was a bad thing, now they're being used by people to see if they're doing the diet right.

    The issue is more what people are willing to do and what results they want because all diets work (at least for weight loss) as long as you do them. The problem is when you quit eating according to plan. My sister-in-law loves meat and cheese, so she did keto and I couldn't recommend another diet plan for her due to dietary preferences. I tried Atkins back in the day and it was the most miserable thing I ever did to myself. Most of the weight I lost was from fasting because I didn't want to eat any of the allowed foods so I would often choose to simply not eat. Now I eat high carb/low fat and it's effortless. I get to eat all the foods I enjoy and lose/maintain weight.

    As for the supposed health benefits of keto, calorie restriction often produces the same results. Now that more people are trying intermittent fasting I think they're discovering doing keto isn't necessary.



    Doctors aren't trained in nutrition. They get maybe an hour about it throughout medical school and what they learn is funded by industry.

    I've been doing 80/10/10 (carbs/protein/fat) and have lost 70 pounds with a sedentary lifestyle. I've felt more energetic than ever and have never experienced any crashes. Maybe people who are still eating refined carbs/sugars do, but I mostly stick to whole foods. I felt awful when I tried low carb/high fat. Lethargic, fatigued, etc.
    You don't understand the difference between ketosis and the serious condition called ketoacidosis.

    As for why you felt bad when you tried the diet it was because you didn't drink enough water or consume enough of the right foods causing you to miss out on some vitamins and minerals that are needed to combat those symptoms. Had you stuck with it the "keto flu" would have passed and your energy level would have skyrocketed.

  10. #50
    Been doing keto since last February, with amazing results. Lost body fat at an extremely fast rate, helped with energy levels as I was constantly feeling lethargic, especially after eating high carb meals and helped with a few other health issues I've been having. Carbs are bad for you, there is plenty of science behind it and even major science / health organisations are backing a LCHF diet as the healthiest option.

    That being said, people can achieve weight loss through a myriad of diets / lifestyles and keto might be too difficult for you since we have been trained to have carbs our entire lives so do what you feel you can stick to. I found it extremely easy as the food I was allowed to eat were all absolutely delicious to me.

    Oh and I read above about how LCHF is bad for sustained energy levels, that is completely incorrect, more than likely you aren't keto adapted and you will feel like shit for up to a month unless you drink a ton of water and go out of your way to stay high on electrolytes which a lot of people don't do.

    Overall 10/10, would recommend.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Nutrition is the only scientific discipline I've ever seen where there is so little agreement on anything. Everyone used to say carbs were important but now keto is big and people get good results on it. Everyone used to say high animal protein was important but now vegans and vegetarians say it isn't (I think they are full of shit because they cherry pick evidence to fit their ideology).

    Diets that have completely different foods and macros seem to produce good results in different people. I would say try different diets and find one that works for you.
    You're right there is a lot of disagreement on diets. But most of that is in the non-scientific community. Everyone has an opinion on food. Many people have outdated information as well. There is also many different things you can eat to satisfy your bodies requirements for nutrition which further complicates things. And in addition to that everyone's body reacts differently to food. The science of nutrition has changed a lot over the years but that doesn't mean there isn't a current consensus on what human nutritional requirements are.

    I would like to convince you that vegan/vegetarian is not full of shit, but it seems you've made up your mind.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    I think most diets are bullshit, I eat what I want when I want and I never have problems from it.
    I mean, me too but obviously this doesn't work for everyone.

    Also I eat healthfully because it's good for my body and makes me feel good.

  13. #53
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    CICO.

    I eat like a horse and need the carbs.

    I think keto is good if you are just trying to cut a little weight and are already on a good exercise regiment. Otherwise you're just going to gain the weight back as soon as you start reintroducing carbohydrates (which is exactly what happens to a majority of people on keto diets).

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by LonerStoner View Post
    CICO.

    I eat like a horse and need the carbs.

    I think keto is good if you are just trying to cut a little weight and are already on a good exercise regiment. Otherwise you're just going to gain the weight back as soon as you start reintroducing carbohydrates (which is exactly what happens to a majority of people on keto diets).
    Keto should be done as a lifestyle, not just for weight loss. Also you will rapidly gain back weight going back on carbs because on a LCHF you shed a few kilograms of water weight and you will put that back on in a couple days, but it'll just be water weight. Also if they do something for weight loss, go and say "oh I achieved what I wanted, let's go back to my old way of eating" and wonder why they pack it back on. People are silly.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by OCDFreaK View Post
    Hello guys

    I would like to talk about the keto diet. I have lost weight doing it and it is probably the best diet in my opinion because of how it naturally suppresses a person's appetite. Can't lose weight without eating less calories of course!

    But the thing is people are still opposed to a diet that is high fat. There are people out there that have made this their way of eating as well and are perfectly healthy. Yet some refuse to accept it. Or most of the world actually.

    What is your opinion on this diet and fat in general? Should we still stick to the low fat idea?
    Joe Rogan and Tom Segura did this and they talk about it in both of their podcasts (The Joe Rogan Experience and Your Mom's House Podcast respectively, those are not pro diet podcasts or some shit). It sounds very interesting, I might try it someday. The trick in there from what I understood is that the fat you take is good fat and it's well controlled in the portions, so you get to eat stuff that doesn't taste empty and you get lots of nutrient (because we do need fat, it's not all bad like most people think).

  16. #56
    Keto 100% works and it worked fast with me!
    I went from 305 to 168 (currently) @Schmittay is absolutely right. If you go off and start shoveling carbs back in it shows RAPIDLY.

  17. #57
    Unless you have a medical condition where you have to watch what you eat, then this is a health and lifestyle topic that should be freely discussed.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Fiber doesn't break down into sugar. Even if it did, as long as you stay below 50 grams of carbs a day you won't break keto.
    I don't know what's your point but you should read the article in the link. Anyway, the point is fiber is only a part of carb complex broccoli for example, one of the best sources of fibre in 100g there's about 7g of carbs, of those carbs 2.6g is fiber, so you are not going to get suggested fiber intake without going over 50g of carbs.
    Also keto zone varies for everyone, for some it's 50g for others it's 20g.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by OCDFreaK View Post
    Hello guys

    I would like to talk about the keto diet. I have lost weight doing it and it is probably the best diet in my opinion because of how it naturally suppresses a person's appetite. Can't lose weight without eating less calories of course!

    But the thing is people are still opposed to a diet that is high fat. There are people out there that have made this their way of eating as well and are perfectly healthy. Yet some refuse to accept it. Or most of the world actually.

    What is your opinion on this diet and fat in general? Should we still stick to the low fat idea?
    As long as you aren't deficient in anything and eat around your BMR then eat whatever the fuck you want.

    All 'diets' are is calories out > calories in, in their most simple form. Fat people that say they can't lose weight just have a warped sense of what a deficit is.
    Last edited by willtron; 2017-12-13 at 11:42 PM.
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  20. #60
    Lol at the "you should speak with your doctor about ketogenic diet" comments. You won't get very far.

    Even diabetic educators are ill prepared on the topic, which is a shame.

    The only medical professionals informed on the subject are people dealing with pediatric seizure issues where keto diet has been proven to be very successful.
    Some progressive oncologists have been catching on too.

    The diet works; it's just incredibly difficult to stick with long term. Then again, when it's a matter of life and death...

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