Method just killed Argus on Mythic

[Taeldorian]

Because the fight is fun for once doesn't mean it's good when it comes to raid quality.
High end raiding should take forever to be completed. They need to give you some sort of satisfaction. I see no point to be happy about clearing a raid in a week time.
Yes they are the best, yes they basically no lifed it. But still. A mythic raid should be designed to be as hard as possible and let only the best of the best slowly get through it.

But hey. most people in todays MMORPG world, rather want it to be quick and easy and as nerfed as possible. So i'm glad u like it.

I’m not the only one who likes it. Method players clearly enjoyed it too go watch their streams. They’re the ones that matter since it’s them who are participating in this race.

If they liked it then it was obviously tuned well enough for them to enjoy it.

Sorry bud but your opinion doesn’t mean jack shit here and neither does mine. Neither of us are in this race. However, if we look at the players who are, they obviously enjoyed it and that’s what matters. Fights taking forever has nothing to do with anything at all.

kJ took forever and was a pile of steaming horse shit. Guess you really loved that fight since it took forever huh? You know, the fight that’s widely accepted as one of the worst tuned fights in WoW by the guilds that actually cleared it. Yeah, that one.

They got through it the way they wanted to. They enjoyed it a fuckload more than KJ who lasted an entire lockout longer. Longer does not mean it’ll be better at all, clearly.

If all fights took as long as KJ for the reasons kJ took a while, there wouldn’t be a world first race for you to watch because people wouldn’t do it. Go look at what these guilds had to say about it. Longer clearly doesn’t mean better. Maybe in certain cases, but not in all.

[Lime]

Retarded statement once again. "Well show me ur mythic" Did he even say that he would clear it? Did any of us?

Normally when someone whines about something, they're whining about something that affects them. If you're not pushing Mythic progression right now, you're complaining about something that will never affect you.

Seeing them clear it all in 1 week time is a massive dissapointment and a big failure of Blizzard.

But that's not the norm. It's not Blizzard's fault, nor anyone else's that you decided to put so much stock into a progression race that you're not even a part of.

Furthermore, after ToS, it was likely intentionally made easier considering all the flak M ToS got due to it's absurd difficulty, even by the top guilds. M KJ lasted longer than this, however M KJ is one of the worst fights WoW has ever seen, before it got nerfed.

Valuing difficulty over fun is the only failing Blizzard could achieve when making these raids. Obviously, the highest tier of content should be the most difficult, and it still is. That bar just isn't set so high that it ceases to be fun. This is why people are calling out those who are calling it a joke, because they're the ones posting on a forum about how it's so easy, despite not actively testing the difficulty themselves.

What are you complaining about at this point? That content you're not going to do is easier than you thought it would be, is more fun, while still being hard enough that most won't achieve it?

[Gimlix]

I’m not the only one who likes it. Method players clearly enjoyed it too go watch their streams. They’re the ones that matter since it’s them who are participating in this race.

If they liked it then it was obviously tuned well enough for them to enjoy it.

Sorry bud but your opinion doesn’t mean jack shit here and neither does mine. Neither of us are in this race. However, if we look at the players who are, they obviously enjoyed it and that’s what matters. Fights taking forever has nothing to do with anything at all.

kJ took forever and was a pile of steaming horse shit. Guess you really loved that fight since it took forever huh? You know, the fight that’s widely accepted as one of the worst tuned fights in WoW by the guilds that actually cleared it. Yeah, that one.

They got through it the way they wanted to. They enjoyed it a fuckload more than KJ who lasted an entire lockout longer. Longer does not mean it’ll be better at all, clearly.

We will never get on the same line when it comes to this opinion so let's just end it.
In the end of the day you are right though. Our opinion doesn't mean jack shit, as long as the actual raiders from the race enjoys it.

[Taeldorian]

We will never get on the same line when it comes to this opinion so let's just end it.
In the end of the day you are right though. Our opinion doesn't mean jack shit, as long as the actual raiders from the race enjoys it.

I’d say we could meet in the middle because I don’t completely disagree.

I think in some cases it’s fine for fights to take longer. Hell Archimonde took a while but the guilds seemed to love it IIRC. However, it’s clear that not all cases are like this. KJ lasted longer than any boss this entire expac but is claimed to be the worst boss WoW has seen in a while. Meanwhile, xavius didn’t even last a lockout and is also a laughing stock.

However, GD, helya and argus lasted 2 lockouts (I believe helya did can’t remember) and 2/3 of those fights these guilds seemed to really enjoy (GD/Argus).

So, sure, it’s nice to have a race that lasts a while but not at the expense of the guilds who are actually in the race. If they enjoyed it then it was a success, long or not.

[Nalorakk]

1 week, final boss of the expansion.

320 wipes after raiding an absurd number of hours a day for a week.

[Lime]

320 wipes after raiding an absurd number of hours a day for a week.

I could beat it.

[Gimlix]

I’d say we could meet in the middle because I don’t completely disagree.

I think in some cases it’s fine for fights to take longer. Hell Archimonde took a while but the guilds seemed to love it IIRC. However, it’s clear that not all cases are like this. KJ lasted longer than any boss this entire expac but is claimed to be the worst boss WoW has seen in a while. Meanwhile, xavius didn’t even last a lockout and is also a laughing stock.

However, GD, helya and argus lasted 2 lockouts (I believe helya did can’t remember) and 2/3 of those fights these guilds seemed to really enjoy (GD/Argus).

So, sure, it’s nice to have a race that lasts a while but not at the expense of the guilds who are actually in the race. If they enjoyed it then it was a success, long or not.

I just wanna say, i dont mind if any raids are done in a week time or even faster when it comes to world firsts.
But when it comes to an end raid of the expansion. I would personally like it if it lasted a bit longer then a week.

Method can basically unsubscribe now till the next expansion.

[Ozoi]

People have it all wrong. The reason why raids are cleared so fast now is not because of tuning issues. Its the lockout system that allows these people to endlessly do split runs the moment a tier is released. That combined with the titanforged and Mythic+ memes pretty much kills any sense of gear progression which 'was' a fundamental part of raiding.

There isn't much Blizzard can do about it as I'm sure they've stated before. I doubt they would shaft people who want to play with their friends as well as the majority of their playerbase in favor of maintaining the spirit of raiding for the hardcore playerbase.

[Taeldorian]

I just wanna say, i dont mind if any raids are done in a week time or even faster when it comes to world firsts.
But when it comes to an end raid of the expansion. I would personally like it if it lasted a bit longer then a week.

Method can basically unsubscribe now for next 12 months till next expansion.

Good they deserve to but that’s up to them.

Method could also unsubscribe and lose a bunch of raiders because the raid is lasting too long for all the wrong reasons. If argus was like KJ I’d bet so much cash on the fact blizzard would be eating so much shit right now. But they aren’t because the fight was pleasantly surprising.

The difficulty curve was disappointing. I expected coven to last a bit longer but argus imo made up for the quick 10/11 clear. He lasted longer than a week, was mechanically very interesting and by the looks of it fun. So, that’s fine with me.

If a raid lasts long because the mechanics are hard to strategize for then awesome, however if a raid is long due to awful tuning then that’s no bueno. Again, kJ is a prime example of how this is bad.

Either way, it doesn’t matter. They had fun, they enjoyed it, that’s what matters since they’re the ones participating.

[hulkgor]

People have it all wrong. The reason why raids are cleared so fast now is not because of tuning issues. Its the lockout system that allows these people to endlessly do split runs the moment a tier is released. That combined with the titanforged and Mythic+ memes pretty much kills any sense of gear progression which 'was' a fundamental part of raiding.

There isn't much Blizzard can do about it as I'm sure they've stated before. I doubt they would shaft people who want to play with their friends as well as the majority of their playerbase in favor of maintaining the spirit of raiding for the hardcore playerbase.

Removing titanforged items would be a good step in that direction. Nothing they can do in regards to split runs though.

[Protean]

Pathetic how fast the raid was cleared on the hardest difficulty.
And don't come with the excuses (Well they tried it for ages on PTR) They do that shit every patch.

This raid seems like a massive failure when it comes to toughness.

What do you want?

[Soluna]

Removing titanforged items would be a good step in that direction. Nothing they can do in regards to split runs though.

Aside from... you know, allowing you to do either heroic or mythic ONLY on that character for the lockout? Just like all expansions prior to the introduction of Flex raiding?

[Azerate]

People who whine that the top guild has cleared the raid within 1 week+ are pretty funny. This game is these people's job, they clear that raid like 30 times a week on different characters and then pull the last boss until they kill it with breaks for food and bio non stop. You cannot tune an encounter in a way to be hard for them, while at the same time making it playable by anyone else.

Then again, any reasonable person understands this, and whiners who probably don't even attempt these encounters at this difficulty will still whinge that it's too easy.

[Staysafe]

Big congratulations to Method, seems like a very mechanically challenging fight.
One huge reason bosses in Vanilla and TBC took so long to kill was because each class' big cooldowns were 30-60 minutes, whereas today each cooldown is pretty much reset with each attempt. This means that Vanilla/BC guilds might have only had 1 or 2 optimal attempts per hour, whereas each attempt today could potentially be a kill because you have your entire toolkit at your disposal.

[Deleted]

Their dedication and resolve has been rewarded. Bless them and may Lord's light keep them warm in its His shadow.

[Deliverer]

I have looked on warcraft logs for the kill replay and can not find it - would you link please?

Logs are private so you can't see the replay.

[Iflash]

It's also a reference back to an old fight... I forget which, I think it might have been Kael'thas or Sunwell Plateau KJ or maybe Vanilla Patchwerk, where the top guild did the numbers and realized that a boss literally was mathematically impossible. It was definitely from the pre-Wrath days. They called bullshit, Blizzard fixed it.

Edit: It was C'thun: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-story-of-...rs-to-madness/

I think it may be a reference to Yogg 0. The top guild at the time said it was mathematically impossible until the next tier was released, and then a chinese(?) guild got the world first.

[netherflame]

Where in the forum rules does it say that? Are you a mod?
How about this - mind your own fucking business and leave the forum moderation to the actual moderator. If you don't like my posts, go ahead and put me on your ignore list. I don't mind. I promise.

You aren't relevant, the current state of the game doesn't apply to you if you aren't currently subbed, you're probably an LFR hero who'd never experience the balance in mythic anyways.

[Deliverer]

Because the fight is fun for once doesn't mean it's good when it comes to raid quality.
High end raiding should take forever to be completed. They need to give you some sort of satisfaction. I see no point to be happy about clearing a raid in a week time.
Yes they are the best, yes they basically no lifed it. But still. A mythic raid should be designed to be as hard as possible and let only the best of the best slowly get through it.

But hey. most people in todays MMORPG world, rather want it to be quick and easy and as nerfed as possible. So i'm glad u like it.

I mean you can't talk like that when you don't raid mythic no offense. At least I think you don't raid mythic.

I understand where you come from though you look from outside and you are disappointed in the tier because it was cleared in a week, and it doesn't feel like something people will remember because people usually remember hard unkillable bosses, and that's why kungen gets thousands of people on stream listening about his stories about unkillable (broken) bosses back in vanilla.

From a raider point of view though having a boss like KJ that took 650 tries for world first I can safely say it's not fun. It was broken at first, it was punishing for a lot of classes and if you did one mistakes you couldn't recover from it.

We killed 6 bosses last week in antorus and they were all fine nothing super hard but definitely enjoyable.

When method release their end tier interview it would be nice to see what they think about this tier.

[Victos]

Because the fight is fun for once doesn't mean it's good when it comes to raid quality.
High end raiding should take forever to be completed. They need to give you some sort of satisfaction. I see no point to be happy about clearing a raid in a week time.
Yes they are the best, yes they basically no lifed it. But still. A mythic raid should be designed to be as hard as possible and let only the best of the best slowly get through it.

But hey. most people in todays MMORPG world, rather want it to be quick and easy and as nerfed as possible. So i'm glad u like it.

Did you clear it? No? STFU.