What a f**cking day, at the NHS.

[agentsi]

So it was not an emergency and it was free? It may hurt like fuck but they can tell real quick if it is serious, you would not get faster emergency treatment by going private.

I can tell you as someone who has broke several bones in my life, from sports, being dumb, etc. I've never had to wait more than an hour or two to get taken care of. So factually, you are 100% wrong. Someone in that kind of pain needs to be on some sort of pain killer immediately. They can go into shock, or have convulsions/seizures from that level of pain. Espeically after being in pain for hours. But I live in the US, not sure where OP lives. Private is better for a reason. Not being put through that sort of torture is one of them.

[Deleted]

I can tell you as someone who has broke several bones in my life, from sports, being dumb, etc. I've never had to wait more than an hour or two to get taken care of. So factually, you are 100% wrong. Someone in that kind of pain needs to be on some sort of pain killer immediately. They can go into shock, or have convulsions/seizures from that level of pain. Espeically after being in pain for hours. But I live in the US, not sure where OP lives. Private is better for a reason. Not being put through that sort of torture is one of them.

Except we have testimonies here from both sides of the pond where they each have super long waiting times as well as immediate attention. It means fuck all whether it is private or public and depends almost entirely on the location, the only major difference is one will give you a bill at the end of it and the other won't.

[Zan15]

And you get affordable health insurance?

affordable?

220 for health insurance means you are making hundreds to thousands less a month that that company could be paying you in other benefits or wages, instead they have to pay your health insurance premiums.

imagine they put half that amount into a 401k for you each month because healthcare was actually "affordable". you would have millions to retire on.

hardly affordable..

- - - Updated - - -

/facepalm

$7,897.44 total FY 17.

Looks like they contribute a little less than half of what I paid in.

You really should know a bit more regarding the things you speak so confidently about. Just sayin`.



*edit*
Dont get me wrong. 8k is a shit ton of money a year. But when I only have to foot half of the bill, its not really that bad. The deals KPMG gets on insurance and our 35k+ employees is pretty good.

Welp then i stand corrected, i assumed you had a family plan. You must have a single plan not family right?? 8k is a little higher then normal for a single individual plan.






https://www.kff.org/report-section/e...y-of-findings/
In 2017, the average annual premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance are $6,690 for single coverage and $18,764 for family coverage





If that is a family plan i need to talk to the company that pays our health insurance
Cause here is what is the total paid for us, and its union.

22k


http://tinypic.com/r/2vvjaqw/9


p.s I've been in health insurance for 25+ years, i can confidently speak about it at this point.

p.s.s

*edit*
Dont get me wrong. 8k is a shit ton of money a year. But when I only have to foot half of the bill, its not really that bad. The deals KPMG gets on insurance and our 35k+ employees is pretty good.

i will wait to hear if this is an individual plan only, but if it is....they are not getting great deals you think they are based on the national average. if its family plan, then holy hell they are the greatest company ever and some insurance company is taking a huge loss on this business.




- - - Updated - - -

There are other medications/ preventative measures that can help control Asthma. There are literally close to a dozen medications used daily for preventative care in addition to the emergency inhaler and nebulizer treatments you can take. There's no excuse for your asthma to be that uncontrolled that requires you to go to the ER every other month. One of the main reasons Asthma goes uncontrolled is because people don't take the time to get properly diagnosed and treated by a doctor, and therefore never get the preventative medication prescribed. Another main reason is people not taking their preventative medication appropriately/ at all/ on schedule.

i wish this was the case for everyone, i agree with most of your points but there is a lot of asthma cases where you cannot because it is that sever even with a full regiment of medications, care, planning and preventative steps. unfortunately i have much experience in this matter in my family.

what i gave too was a single case example. there are hundreds of others, that was the point that we should not jump to conclusions about needing the ER 6+ times a year.

[draykorinee]

There are other medications/ preventative measures that can help control Asthma. There are literally close to a dozen medications used daily for preventative care in addition to the emergency inhaler and nebulizer treatments you can take. There's no excuse for your asthma to be that uncontrolled that requires you to go to the ER every other month. One of the main reasons Asthma goes uncontrolled is because people don't take the time to get properly diagnosed and treated by a doctor, and therefore never get the preventative medication prescribed. Another main reason is people not taking their preventative medication appropriately/ at all/ on schedule.

This is just untrue, brittle asthma is often uncontrollable, i'm an icu nurse, we have multiple repeat attendees and these people try everything possibly and follow every rule, one of them is even a nurse who works in our hospital, she's not even thirty and we admit her every few months.

There will always be those who don't look after their asthma/diabetes but there are plenty of poor sods who are just fucked.

[Beazy]

@Zan15

I have a plan, and she has a separate plan, all on my insurance carrier. I haven't reviewed my actual insurance plans in a long time, I enrolled on hire(over 10 years ago) and enrolled the wife like three years later. But her plan is different than mine, its also cheaper. I forget what its actually called, but its like an account with a set amount. Once she goes over this amount, deductibles kick in. If she doesnt use the full amount, it rolls over to next years balance. Its perfect for her because she never visits the dr unless its for a check up or a teeth cleaning.

[draykorinee]

I can tell you as someone who has broke several bones in my life, from sports, being dumb, etc. I've never had to wait more than an hour or two to get taken care of. So factually, you are 100% wrong. Someone in that kind of pain needs to be on some sort of pain killer immediately. They can go into shock, or have convulsions/seizures from that level of pain. Espeically after being in pain for hours. But I live in the US, not sure where OP lives. Private is better for a reason. Not being put through that sort of torture is one of them.

This isn't statistically supported by any evidence, I'm sure we all appreciate your anecdotes though.

You're actually the only one factually wrong.

Bear in mind, US wait times do not factor in discharge from ED, in the UK our wait tours are admission -treatment-discharge. US wait times are classed as admission to treatment. Two entirely different statistics.

[Zan15]

@Zan15

I have a plan, and she has a separate plan, all on my insurance carrier. I haven't reviewed my actual insurance plans in a long time, I enrolled on hire(over 10 years ago) and enrolled the wife like three years later. But her plan is different than mine, its also cheaper. I forget what its actually called, but its like an account with a set amount. Once she goes over this amount, deductibles kick in. If she doesnt use the full amount, it rolls over to next years balance. Its perfect for her because she never visits the dr unless its for a check up or a teeth cleaning.

ah so individual plan for 8k is not horrible but not great.
All would depend on how much your deductible/cost sharing out of pocket is. if they are very minimal then 8k would be very appropriate as you are paying the higher premium instead of higher deduct/oop.



She is most likely on a HSA-Plan. Health savings account, insurance plus the ability to save to pay future deductibles/out of pockets. employer probably contributes to the amount saved each year. my wife too has the same plan, they give her 2k this year and 1 k after that towards the HSA balance to carry forward till she needs it. Used to be 3k for first year and 2k every year after that.










ACA plans in dallas tx for an individual no subsidies start at 264 a month 3168 a year.

Molina Marketplace · Molina Marketplace Choice Bronze Plan
BronzeHMOPlan ID: 45786TX0020003

ACA no deductible / 7k out of pocket plans start at 390 / 4680

Molina Marketplace · Molina Marketplace Silver Plan
SilverHMOPlan ID: 45786TX0010002



Most expensive plan is around 7500. has 1k deductible and very low cost sharing (copay/out of pocket/coinsurance)

- - - Updated - - -

This isn't statistically supported by any evidence, I'm sure we all appreciate your anecdotes though.

You're actually the only one factually wrong.

Bear in mind, US wait times do not factor in discharge from ED, in the UK our wait tours are admission -treatment-discharge. US wait times are classed as admission to treatment. Two entirely different statistics.

actually wait times are not measured like this.
there are multiple measurements that are used.

wait times are exactly that, time you waited to be admitted to the ER and seen, not treated.

then there is time to treat
then there is time to transfer/admit
Time for pain meds.
etc
etc

A lot of this data is required submissions to the federal govt for things like medicare.

The app uses data from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services on measures of “Timely and Effective Care.” These measures are based on a year’s worth of data that CMS updates quarterly. It includes averages for how long patients tend to wait before seeing a doctor, how long they spend in the emergency department before being sent home or admitted to the hospital, and how many leave without being seen at all. All data is reported voluntarily by hospitals, which have a financial incentive to participate.





This site tries to track the available data

https://projects.propublica.org/emergency/

[BloodyAngel12]

I broke my ankle last year and walked on it for a month before i found out it was broken, now that was pain.

With in 4 hours i was told that my ankle had irreparable damage to the joint and had collapsed leaving me with a permanently deformed joint and foot.

That same day i was fitted for an aircast and crutches that a tall person could use. Since then I've had monthly visits to a foot clinic and Splint workshop.

Got to say the NHS is amazing.

[Katchii]

This is just untrue, brittle asthma is often uncontrollable, i'm an icu nurse, we have multiple repeat attendees and these people try everything possibly and follow every rule, one of them is even a nurse who works in our hospital, she's not even thirty and we admit her every few months.

There will always be those who don't look after their asthma/diabetes but there are plenty of poor sods who are just fucked.

I meant to remove the statement in the middle that says "there's no excuse for it to be uncontrolled," verbiage was too aggressive for what I meant to say and I forgot to edit that out before submitting.

It's absolutely possible, I never meant to infer otherwise.

[Bodakane]

You must be on the ACA or something. I don't have anything close to a deductible at all, and I only pay 220 a check for the wife and myself. The longest wait time I have at the hospital or doctors office, is the time it takes me to fill out a form. About a year ago I had an impacted tooth, I went to the dentist, I handed them an insurance card, I filled out a form and was sitting in a chair getting the best high from that NO2 tank. Next thing I know, I'm waking up and my mouth is numb. Entire process, from door to door, 2.5 hours.

Um ok. I'm literally in the hospital right now because my dad got into a car accident. He's been laying in an er room for 4 1/2 hours. He has yet to receive pain meds. He has to be transferred to another facility. He has amazing insurance. All they've done is take X-rays and a Ct. they've known they can't treat him for 3 hours. The facility he needs to go to is literally across the fucking street.

[draykorinee]

ah so individual plan for 8k is not horrible but not great.
All would depend on how much your deductible/cost sharing out of pocket is. if they are very minimal then 8k would be very appropriate as you are paying the higher premium instead of higher deduct/oop.



She is most likely on a HSA-Plan. Health savings account, insurance plus the ability to save to pay future deductibles/out of pockets. employer probably contributes to the amount saved each year. my wife too has the same plan, they give her 2k this year and 1 k after that towards the HSA balance to carry forward till she needs it. Used to be 3k for first year and 2k every year after that.










ACA plans in dallas tx for an individual no subsidies start at 264 a month 3168 a year.

Molina Marketplace · Molina Marketplace Choice Bronze Plan
BronzeHMOPlan ID: 45786TX0020003

ACA no deductible / 7k out of pocket plans start at 390 / 4680

Molina Marketplace · Molina Marketplace Silver Plan
SilverHMOPlan ID: 45786TX0010002



Most expensive plan is around 7500. has 1k deductible and very low cost sharing (copay/out of pocket/coinsurance)

- - - Updated - - -



actually wait times are not measured like this.
there are multiple measurements that are used.

wait times are exactly that, time you waited to be admitted to the ER and seen, not treated.

then there is time to treat
then there is time to transfer/admit
Time for pain meds.
etc
etc

A lot of this data is required submissions to the federal govt for things like medicare.

The app uses data from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services on measures of “Timely and Effective Care.” These measures are based on a year’s worth of data that CMS updates quarterly. It includes averages for how long patients tend to wait before seeing a doctor, how long they spend in the emergency department before being sent home or admitted to the hospital, and how many leave without being seen at all. All data is reported voluntarily by hospitals, which have a financial incentive to participate.





This site tries to track the available data

https://projects.propublica.org/emergency/

We're talking reported wait times by government bodies

In order to solve these discrepancies, CMS established standard definitions and a common metric with which to accurately compare different hospitals. The agency defines its own “waiting time” measure as the time from when a patient walks in the door to when he is evaluated by a licensed provider

Like i said, wait times are reported differently, at no point did I say other times are not available.

I also like their caveat that it's basically just a person writing it down and sending it, and these hospitals are financially inclined to work the system let's be honest (Just like the UK does)

Also those numbers are not based on individual hospitals, its state by state, gives a real skewed interpreation of busy hospitals. Those numbers do thankfully back up what we're all saying. In the UK you're waiting 120 minutes if you're discharged home, 250 minute if you're transferred in hospital, nearly every state has similar numbers to the first and better numbers for the latter. So in this case its almost like there's no difference. Most US hospitals have an hour before you get pain meds for broken bones...

[Deleted]

I agree. But, IMO, the only way to have a true "free healthcare" system, is for the Feds to step in and control the prices of the med industry. That scares me.

American healthcare ranks astonishingly badly when you consider the wealth of the nation it operates in. Most of the best healthcare systems are "socialised". American healthcare can be the best in the world IF you have the wealth to buy it. If you don't you are screwed.

Something like the NHS is not as good as a billionaire can buy in America. However, it is on average better for everyone else, and much, much better than anyone who has to rely on Medicaid will ever get.

Also, in the NHS, if you are unlucky enough to be born with a health problem, your family will not be financially ruined because no one will insure you.

I don;t get why Americans fear a socialised health system so much. After all, the police, fire and army are socialised aren;t they?

I mean, when you're mugged the cops don;t ask for a credit card before they will do anything, do they? If your house is on fire do the firemen demand you've paid up your fire insurance before turning on the hoses?

Does the US Army pledge to defend only those citizens who paid up their Defense Insrance? Would you want the US army, airforce and navy to be private operations who prioritised rich people?

"But I pay for that stuff in my taxes!" I hear you say.

Yeah, exactly the same way that Europeans pay for health in their taxes.

- - - Updated - - -

Lotta people in this thread claiming a dislocated joint (shoulder in this case) isn't an emergency... Hate to break it to you, but it is, albeit not nearly as emergent as some issues. The longer a joint remains dislocated, the greater the likelihood of functional deficiencies and of needing more involved treatment such as conscious sedation and/or surgery.

But it's not a critical emergency, i.e. a wait of six hours is unlikely to cause these issues and that is why the OP had to wait behind people who were brought in with severe chest pains, or who had stopped breathing, or who had been in a car crash and were only being kept alive with emergency transfusions.

It's called triage and every hospital operates it. If you got a bad shoulder and you are seen and treated right away, you got lucky and hit a quiet time when there weren't more critical patients to treat.

Either that, or you went to a facility where they want payment upfront and turn away people who can't, which isn;t a real emergency department at all.

[Vankrys]

hm..... yet you see people rave at how good free healthcare is xD. Id rather pay than be stuck for hours waiting for some doctor to see me.

hope you are ok bro!

i think this has more to do about the state of healthcare, than how much it cost.

Last time i was rush to the ER was for gallstone that evolved into pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas). I was in severe pain. I was on morphine within 30 minutes, X-rayed and blood work done in the hour following admittance. Then admitted to the IC for a day, and stayed in hospital for a week on observation. I had my gallbladder extracted the following month.

And i didn't pay a cent. All free of of charge because of the healthcare system of my country.

[Deleted]

BTW, if the guy going to emergency with a brittle asthma attack isn;t having to wait, it's because a asthma attack like that is a critical emergency, it is treated as immediately life-threatening - it can quickly kill you, because you can get so little oxygen and strain so hard trying to get it that you can into cardiac arrest and die.

Moreover, an asthma attack can progress to the point where it's untreatable. You have to administer vasodilator drugs immediately. Asthmatics carry inhaler forms of such drugs at all times (if they have a brain). However, asthma attacks, particularly if you have 'brittle' asthma (which may have no identificable triggers and where attacks can be vere severe with no warning), an attack can happen so suddenly and be so severe you cannot inhale properly and thus the drug cannot reach to where it is needed.

The immediate response by the ambulance is to try a nebuliser, which is more effective than an inhaler, but unless the attack immediately starts to resolve, you will go to the emergency room and treated as a top priority. Asthma attacks like that can caus emultiple visits to emergency, because the only effective treatment is intravenous drugs.

And these often have to be given withing 15-30 minutes, beyond that an attack can progress to death even with treatment.

Someone with a severe asthma attack would be treated by an emergency room as in the same category as a confirmed heart attack victim or someone who come sin mangled from a car crash.

Peopel don;t realise how severe asthma can be.

[Evangeliste]

BTW, if the guy going to emergency with a brittle asthma attack isn;t having to wait, it's because a asthma attack like that is a critical emergency, it is treated as immediately life-threatening - it can quickly kill you, because you can get so little oxygen and strain so hard trying to get it that you can into cardiac arrest and die.

Moreover, an asthma attack can progress to the point where it's untreatable. You have to administer vasodilator drugs immediately. Asthmatics carry inhaler forms of such drugs at all times (if they have a brain). However, asthma attacks, particularly if you have 'brittle' asthma (which may have no identificable triggers and where attacks can be vere severe with no warning), an attack can happen so suddenly and be so severe you cannot inhale properly and thus the drug cannot reach to where it is needed.

The immediate response by the ambulance is to try a nebuliser, which is more effective than an inhaler, but unless the attack immediately starts to resolve, you will go to the emergency room and treated as a top priority. Asthma attacks like that can caus emultiple visits to emergency, because the only effective treatment is intravenous drugs.

And these often have to be given withing 15-30 minutes, beyond that an attack can progress to death even with treatment.

Someone with a severe asthma attack would be treated by an emergency room as in the same category as a confirmed heart attack victim or someone who come sin mangled from a car crash.

Peopel don;t realise how severe asthma can be.

That's the ignorant for you. People hear asthma and don't realise the attachment that a lack of breathing can seriously harm you. Asthma has this stupid stigma that everyone with it can control or live with it. It's no different to people with colds, people normally are fine but those with zero effective immune system will see it completely different.

People attach CPR, the need to breath and life/death situation together because the person looks like and effectively incapable. Because someone with asthma is having an attack and sucking on their inhaler or gasping for air, they are apparently "awake" and doing something, therefore it's not so threatening. Never mind that person could yeah, basically be the equivalent to the CPR needed.

It's why I'm glad we are slowly moving to an age where people aren't such a dipshit about things, but you are still surprised. And what's worse is before you could understand, but we live a digitally advanced world where information is EVERYWHERE and you still get ignorant goats. Sometimes I wish in education, we'd be able to add things like this, inform them on social etiquette and principles, bring back the ideals of common sense so you don't get idiots going to emergency room with a sore toe and expecting top-notch, super fast treatment.

[Shadee]

What do you expect when the government runs something? Everything should be privately run.

[Logwyn]

The last time I dislocated anything I popped it back in...(I kinda yelped/scream but it got done). Lot of bruising as hell, and I tied up my arm for a week to make sure everything went back in place. But it was all good afterwards.

Same thing happened to Bo Jackson. Damage el blood vessels and well it ended his career because he didn't get proper medical treatment.

[Deleted]

So many stupid people defending bad British healthcare practices so they can complain about American ones.

Now come to Eastern Europe please.
Sometimes we wait a few years for some basic HC.

but it's probably free so that will make it ok.

that appointment at a private hospital would've cost me £150, JUST to talk to my surgeon for less than 20minutes, imagine if i had been admitted there without going to the NHS instead, as was recommended because all my consultants would've been under one roof.

Why did you need to talk to a consultant in the first place when all that information should be made available to you. If not then why not considering the amounts of public cash put into the health system.

[Mendzia]

but it's probably free so that will make it ok.

Hahaha... What?
No. It is not free...

[AeneasBK]

Why did you need to talk to a consultant in the first place when all that information should be made available to you.

What precisely do you mean by this?