After 7.3.5 leveling old content will take forever

[makketota]

I'm really happy with these changes. Tested it on the PTR for a few hours, and I'm glad that mob damage and HP was buffed aswell. It starts to become noticeable at around level 15 and beyond. Pulling 4 enemies while questing was pushing it as a shadow priest. Dungeons actually need a healer now, some bosses even hit the tank for 30-40% of hp per swing.

[Destructodave]

New players aren't decked out in heirlooms. New Players will be motivated to explore because they are new players.

New players won't make it through the game. Playing a single player experience for 110 levels, will cause more players to quit. The gameplay of WoW is, and never will be, the factor of why its so popular. Its an MMO; its a social game. The vast majority of the playerbase are all at end-game. Anyone knew, starts with the notion they are going to be playing with real people in the near future. Some new guy slogging through 110 levels of solo torture with a random bot or CRZ guy occasionally in his area is not what they started the game for. Its not like WoW is the greatest RPG, story-wise, ever made. They might as well quit WoW and go play GTA 5 or something for a better experience than slogging through 110 levels of solo RPG WoW. I honestly dont know if I would make it, if I was a new player. I'd probably quit and go find something more fun to play before I ever made it to 110 and was able to experience what WoW really is at end-game, with new friends, etc. This isn't 2004 anymore. People dont start and are already in what is considered current content. People start now and are REALLY far behind unless they use a boost. Thats why I dont understand why people constantly tell new people not to use their boost. All you are doing is going to burn them out on the terrible leveling grind before they ever get to experience the real magic of WoW and that is the social aspect of it all. On a single player experience, WoW doesn't cut it compared to other RPGs. And a single player experience is exactly what leveling is.

[Protean]

Nope.

Not all glyphs had costs that high and the vast majority of glyphs were available even for new players.

Glyphs was the best system ever added to the game along with reforging.

No good glyphs were cheap or easily accessible for those who wanted to craft for themselves.

Glyphs were shit and reforging took fun out of the game, same way crucible does currently.

Just let me equip my new stuff without worrying about using a sim to tell me how to reforge. Because that's all the effort it ever took.

[Soon-TM]

The only thing missing for 7.3.5 levelling is mobs hitting somewhat harder. Other than that, I like it

Nope.

Not all glyphs had costs that high and the vast majority of glyphs were available even for new players.

Glyphs was the best system ever added to the game along with reforging.

The problem with glyphs is that like 80% of them were trash and 15% were mandatory, leaving very little space for actual customization (ostensibly their purpose). Of course, the former were cheap af, while the latter never were below 600g back in WotLK. It came to the point that the only "profitable" proffs were Insc and JC, while all the others languished far behind, except maybe Ench.

[franksredhot]

1. No. It won't.
2. Shut up.
3. Vanilla is when leveling took forever.
4. Shut up.
5. Stop whining about shit that doesn't matter. The amount they increased the XP isn't that much. Quit being such a god damned entitled baby.

Yeah. That should about cover it.

P.S. Shut up.

Infracted.

Man, this guy seems like a real fun person to be around.

[makketota]

The only thing missing for 7.3.5 levelling is mobs hitting somewhat harder. Other than that, I like it



The problem with glyphs is that like 80% of them were trash and 15% were mandatory, leaving very little space for actual customization (ostensibly their purpose). Of course, the former were cheap af, while the latter never were below 600g back in WotLK. It came to the point that the only "profitable" proffs were Insc and JC, while all the others languished far behind, except maybe Ench.

Maybe you want them to hit even harder, but compared to live they hit a lot harder on the PTR, at least above level 15. Dungeons as a healer is also no longer the snoozefest it was before.

[therealbowser]

It won't take forever, but it will definitely take longer.

Frankly I understand making mobs take longer to fight but I don't get increasing the experience required to level at all. The only reason I can think of as to why they are doing this, is because they plan on selling +Experience potions in the shop. Which would also explain why heritage armor sets are being rewarded for leveling a new character, instead of buying a race change.

I do not foresee this ending well.

[pinelakias]

Do what I will do. Before this "update" becomes live, level up 2 or 3 more characters of classes that you don't have to avoid this new "leveling" fiasco. I cared about leveling in Vanilla, TBC and maybe WotK because the leveling was actually relevant to the story. But now, its not anymore. You just want to move through this level gate to reach the max level and play the real game (which is the dungeons, the raids, the WQs, the gearing farm and the gold farm)

[therealbowser]

The problem with glyphs is that like 80% of them were trash and 15% were mandatory, leaving very little space for actual customization (ostensibly their purpose). Of course, the former were cheap af, while the latter never were below 600g back in WotLK.

Dunno the context but this information is wrong. Glyphs did not sell that high, especially not in WotLK. Maybe in Mists of Pandaria for some of the harder or more expensive glyphs when someone was truly desperate to get them, but not in WotLK, no way.

I never bought a glyph in WotLK for more than 50 gold, and I never struggled to find any.

Legion is another story, naturally. Glyphs have stupidly high costs because the materials costs are so high. Glyphs in WotLK were both easy to obtain and cheap to make. Only an idiot would have bought a glyph for 600 gold in Wrath of the Lich King.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

It's just a pacing change. Doesn't really change much in terms of speed. Stop over reacting. It's an important change if they are going to make leveling matter again with allied races. You can't have everything handed to you. People who want that have damn near doomed this game but luckily blizzard has managed to right the ship with legion.

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It won't take forever, but it will definitely take longer.

Frankly I understand making mobs take longer to fight but I don't get increasing the experience required to level at all. The only reason I can think of as to why they are doing this, is because they plan on selling +Experience potions in the shop. Which would also explain why heritage armor sets are being rewarded for leveling a new character, instead of buying a race change.

I do not foresee this ending well.

The increase to experience needed is for classic only and I offset by a massive increase in exp from quests. Go play the game please.

[Lemondish]

I was super glad to hear about the changes to leveling but after jumping on the PTR for a bit...I absolutely love it. My only wish is that the new allied races be available prior to the BfA launch.

All those thinking it'll be a 'disaster' or 'fiasco' - you can skip leveling pretty easily. But for those that actually like leveling, this is an absolutely welcome change. No more having to faceroll dungeons because traveling throughout the world took so long each time you leveled out of a zone in the first hour of playing it. You can finally complete the entirety of a zone's story without it drastically increasing the length of the leveling experience.

[therealbowser]

The increase to experience needed is for classic only and I offset by a massive increase in exp from quests. Go play the game please.

Go play what game? This is all on the PTR and information regarding this isn't exactly widely available. It's all second hand information, you don't see posts on MMO-champ's front page about quest experience increases, just about experience cap to leveled going up. I lack context and I'm not blowing up about it, I'm just using the information I have to draw a conclusion. Originally I suspected this to be the case, so if it is in fact the case it's comforting to know.

None the less, they would not do this unless they wanted it to impact something else. If all experience is being increased, that's another story... but if not, then other methods -- such as running dungeons, or doing battlegrounds -- will be far less effective for leveling now because of this. And that's not a good thing, if true. Until I have all the context I'm not going to go so far as to complain about it, but it's a concern -- something I'm watching and paying attention to.

[Cosmic Janitor]

While think the overall speed will probably stay the same since killing shit your level rather than 8 below for your quest will also reward you with better xp and loot, I also have to agree with the following:

The thing that bothers me the most about them slowing down the pace is the fact that leveling pruned half baked classes isn't even fun. You're just going to sit at mobs longer pushing the same two buttons.

I certainly miss some of the tools that made leveling some classes interesting. Especially the lower levels are extremly boring since you've so little to do.

[therealbowser]

All those thinking it'll be a 'disaster' or 'fiasco' - you can skip leveling pretty easily.

What? How do you "skip" leveling? With a $60 character boost token? Are you saying that if we're unhappy with leveling changes, we should just spend ridiculous amounts of money to "skip" it? What a loaded argument.

I don't feel like it's necessarily going to be a problem, but arguments like this just make me cringe.

If I'm misreading this please correct me, but I can't see how else you can "skip" leveling.

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While think the overall speed will probably stay the same since killing shit your level rather than 8 below for your quest will also reward you with better xp and loot, I also have to agree with the following:

I certainly miss some of the tools that made leveling some classes interesting. Especially the lower levels are extremly boring since you've so little to do.

That's actually a good point. I did some testing as a balance druid on the PTR, and it impressed me that I basically had a two button rotation and struggled to fight more than 3 enemies (without heirlooms, etc) without dying.

I don't have an issue with the difficulty persay, but it would be nice if they provided more tools for low level questing if they want to make this kind of change. 1-2 button rotations to kill enemies is not a lot of fun.

If it were me, I'd make it so enemies progressively became harder to kill until around the point where your rotation really starts to flesh out a little (ideally, I would make this around level 40) it reaches the point where the PTR is currently at. Then taking more time to kill enemies can be more enjoyable.

[makketota]

What? How do you "skip" leveling? With a $60 character boost token? Are you saying that if we're unhappy with leveling changes, we should just spend ridiculous amounts of money to "skip" it? What a loaded argument.

I don't feel like it's necessarily going to be a problem, but arguments like this just make me cringe.

If I'm misreading this please correct me, but I can't see how else you can "skip" leveling.

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That's actually a good point. I did some testing as a balance druid on the PTR, and it impressed me that I basically had a two button rotation and struggled to fight more than 3 enemies (without heirlooms, etc) without dying.

I don't have an issue with the difficulty persay, but it would be nice if they provided more tools for low level questing if they want to make this kind of change. 1-2 button rotations to kill enemies is not a lot of fun.

If it were me, I'd make it so enemies progressively became harder to kill until around the point where your rotation really starts to flesh out a little (ideally, I would make this around level 40) it reaches the point where the PTR is currently at. Then taking more time to kill enemies can be more enjoyable.

Time is money friend. If I wasn't enjoying the time it takes to reach max level it'd be worth more than $60 dollars to me. In a sense you are already paying for it.

I agree with your last point about making it progressively harder , and it seems like this is actually what they are going for. For the first 10-15 levels its pretty much the same as before, and that makes sense since there is nothing interesting to fill the combat time with anyway. As you start to get more abilities around level 20-30 it becomes harder. I haven't tried past level 30 yet so can't comment on that.

[Soon-TM]

Maybe you want them to hit even harder, but compared to live they hit a lot harder on the PTR, at least above level 15. Dungeons as a healer is also no longer the snoozefest it was before.

Haven't been on the PTR, but this is good news indeed.

[Jujudrood]

Hello!
I made this account today because i want to talk about this, not to troll people

Everybody seems to be very happy and excited about scaling old content, and for me that is weird because is OLD CONTENT, is irrelevant. We already play it. (i played late BC and WoTLK, then quit and came back for Legion)

Remember back in the day went you gain a talent point EVERY LEVEL?
That had to change to make possible the 85 levels, so I think leveling in irrelevant content should change in a faster and easy way so everyone can enjoy the LEVELING IN legion and future content.

And yet i find people shouting that this is amazing and that finally we can enjoy the stories of the zones (irrelevant zones) and that it is so sad that current leveling is so quick. I don’t get it.

To me old content IS NOT the game, the game begins at 100-110 where you can raid, do bgs, arenas, make gold, hunt for transmogs, hunt for artifacts skins, etc.

So explain to me why playing the irrelevant parts of this amazing game is a good think, and that is more rewarding than paying $60

The same reason anyone pops in any game from their library that they've already played before.
I've played Shining Force probably 40-50 times end-to-end, and guess what? I'll prolly do it a dozen or more times in my lifetime.
Sometimes people like the old content, the old quest lines, the old stories, and they just want to go back and do it without being limited in rewards.
Some people like doing the old stuff again on a new character (maybe a new server, or just for funsies), but some zones are boring/ugly/tedious, so they will soon be able to be skipped without issue.
Also, for new people to the game, this helps them in that they don't out-level (even without heirlooms, it's possible) zones or even get confused where to go, anything like that; just go to the one next door when you are ready.

There's tons of reasons why this is good, but the primary one is streamlining.
By allowing a zone to finish instead of hitting a single hub then having to move on, it lets you decide what to do and where to go.
Not everyone enjoys spamming dungeon queues to power level; sometimes they want to quest and some old zones have good stories in them that, today, you can see it at a huge penalty of little to no xp to see it through.
It's been years since I've actually paid attention to the stories while leveling because it's 'grab a handful of quests, do them, queue pops, next zone' all the way to 100.
Now, I can stop and smell the roses, see the story, choose my ones, and not be penalized by everything being green or eventually grayed out.
If you are a dungeon spammer and just want to get there as quickly as possible, you still can do what you do today, and with the damn near full suit of heirlooms offering bonus xp, it will most likely be just as quick as it is today, but with the added benefit of less required travel to different zones/xpacs.

XP will be leveled off a bit, so it may seem like you need to do more per level, but with everything scaling, there are no more 'lower level' quests or green mobs, so it will probably even out given that you don't have to pack up shop and hit the next zone 5 min into your current one.

[therealbowser]

Time is money friend. If I wasn't enjoying the time it takes to reach max level it'd be worth more than $60 dollars to me. In a sense you are already paying for it.

I agree with your last point about making it progressively harder , and it seems like this is actually what they are going for. For the first 10-15 levels its pretty much the same as before, and that makes sense since there is nothing interesting to fill the combat time with anyway. As you start to get more abilities around level 20-30 it becomes harder. I haven't tried past level 30 yet so can't comment on that.

It doesn't matter. If your argument is "if you don't like it, don't do it" (or in your case, blow money on a token) then your argument is poor. Lots of people enjoy leveling as it is, but don't want to blow money on a token. Why should they get overlooked?

Again, I don't find an issue with the leveling changes, but it's just a bad argument. I suspect that wasn't your intention so I am pointing that out.

At any rate, my main issue as mentioned before is just that leveling taking longer makes it ... boring, without a rotation. Once you get a rotation though, it's fine, and in fact I prefer taking longer since it lets you learn your rotations and manage them better. One way or another it will make leveling take longer though, so hopefully Blizzard is anticipating that. I'd like for leveling to be a more active experience without taking longer to get from 1-max in exchange, and if Blizzard feels they same way they can do so. We'll see.

At the very least I'd like if it is progressively harder so that when you are stuck with a boring rotation you don't have to, say, spam wrath 5-6 times per enemy and can instead move on quickly so that everything isn't as grindy, but we'll see.

[Magnagarde]

You're making a valid point, especially because so many people have leveled their characters the easier way and have an advantage.

I personally do not mind it though. I didn't think it'd ever happen as Blizzard became overly sensitive about complaining.

[makketota]

It doesn't matter. If your argument is "if you don't like it, don't do it" (or in your case, blow money on a token) then your argument is poor. Lots of people enjoy leveling as it is, but don't want to blow money on a token. Why should they get overlooked?

Again, I don't find an issue with the leveling changes, but it's just a bad argument. I suspect that wasn't your intention so I am pointing that out.

At any rate, my main issue as mentioned before is just that leveling taking longer makes it ... boring, without a rotation. Once you get a rotation though, it's fine, and in fact I prefer taking longer since it lets you learn your rotations and manage them better. One way or another it will make leveling take longer though, so hopefully Blizzard is anticipating that. I'd like for leveling to be a more active experience without taking longer to get from 1-max in exchange, and if Blizzard feels they same way they can do so. We'll see.

At the very least I'd like if it is progressively harder so that when you are stuck with a boring rotation you don't have to, say, spam wrath 5-6 times per enemy and can instead move on quickly so that everything isn't as grindy, but we'll see.

Longer and more challenging combat doesn't make leveling longer by default. They could just adjust experience gains to compensate for it, and i think it's very likely that they will.