Ketogenic diet

[Deleted]

Yep, a lot of artificial sweeteners spike your insulin just like actual sugar does and will knock you out of ketosis, so if you're still guzzling them sugar free drinks, best see what kind is in there and see it's effect on insulin. I think sugar alcohols are pretty good but pretty sure one of the most used, aspartame, or sweeteners 955, 952, 954 and 950 is a big no no.

Actually there is no study that proves that aspartame raises insuline levels. Acesulfam-K raised the insulin levels of some rats, but animal studies are outdated and do not say much about what it does to the human body imho. The only study I found about a common artificial sweetener that potentially raises insulin levels was a study about sucralose.
I used to drink softdrinks a lot and still remember I tried avoiding them completely when everybody went apeshit about aspartame. Funny that the products many people bought which were aspartame free (especially bodybuildings supps) probably were more harmful in the end. I remember a lot of protein supps here in germany who were sweetened with sucralose.

I believe that in moderation sweeteners aren't a big risk for us. There are so many bs studies out there, I see them posted daily by my hardcore vegan coworkers fe. I tried to explain to them how studies work. Or the difference between relative and absolute risks of getting diseases like cancer etc. They wouldn't listen. Instead one time a co-worker threw my Milk away because it "offended" him and it was bad for me anyways. Sometimes I really hate working for a hipster company.

[Immitis]

this is the potassium i use



has like 1000mg in 1/4th a tsp

[belfpala]

i wasnt assuming you needed to lose weight. i mostly use keto to maintain/gain weight (keto gainz yo!) while lifting weights and i fast for growth hormone/autophagy

i pour some in a water bottle/black coffee and just drink it. tastes a little funky sure but it keeps me from getting headaches or feeling icky during my fasts. also when fasting you enjoy simply tasting something at all tbh.

dont eat for 10 days and anything tastes good, sense of smell is also super strong. when fasting i can immediately smell if anyone is cooking anything in my house or has food no matter what room im in and nomatter how little food it is

Hunger is the best sauce, or so it goes.

I hacked Gatorade a while back. Basically, you just need water, lemon and lime juice, salt, potassium (I use NuSalt, but whatever), and sugar. It does the job. Those are the electrolytes you're writing about. The sugar is actually essential for brain function, by the way.

[Immitis]

Hunger is the best sauce, or so it goes.

I hacked Gatorade a while back. Basically, you just need water, lemon and lime juice, salt, potassium (I use NuSalt, but whatever), and sugar. It does the job. Those are the electrolytes you're writing about. The sugar is actually essential for brain function, by the way.

i dont need the sugar while fasting unless i reach extremely low body fat percentages like sub 5% which if anyone is sub 5% they shouldnt long term fast anyways.

[Schmittay]

This is false

Carbohydrates are what puts you out of ketosis, not sweeteners. If you are finding that you are going out of ketosis then you are sneaking in hidden carbs from somewhere.

Artificial sweeteners can absolutely knock you out of ketosis as it affects your insulin levels just like sugar. Some people less so the others though. Also it totally depends on the sweetener, there is a scale someone that shows how much each sweetener affects blood sugar.

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Actually there is no study that proves that aspartame raises insuline levels. Acesulfam-K raised the insulin levels of some rats, but animal studies are outdated and do not say much about what it does to the human body imho. The only study I found about a common artificial sweetener that potentially raises insulin levels was a study about sucralose.
I used to drink softdrinks a lot and still remember I tried avoiding them completely when everybody went apeshit about aspartame. Funny that the products many people bought which were aspartame free (especially bodybuildings supps) probably were more harmful in the end. I remember a lot of protein supps here in germany who were sweetened with sucralose.

I believe that in moderation sweeteners aren't a big risk for us. There are so many bs studies out there, I see them posted daily by my hardcore vegan coworkers fe. I tried to explain to them how studies work. Or the difference between relative and absolute risks of getting diseases like cancer etc. They wouldn't listen. Instead one time a co-worker threw my Milk away because it "offended" him and it was bad for me anyways. Sometimes I really hate working for a hipster company.

Yeah it might not of been aspartame, actually I might have mixed it up with another because there is a lot of controversy around that one in particular. But yeah, sweteners does affect ketosis, obviously not as much as sugar but overall it's just good not to have at all.

[Deleted]

@Immitis

So you don't do real refeeds? AND you also fast? How long are your fasting times? Tbh since all those years that I've been lifting I never met someone who could do a keto without a proper cycle AND significantly progress performance-wise. For someone like me this is hard to believe since I pulled of all my personal records while on a pretty high carb diet...but I believe this can work. There is a dude I guess his name was Dr. Shawn Baker who does a so called carnivore diet. He mostly eats meat and pulled of some weightlifting records...so I guess everything is possible.

[belfpala]

i dont need the sugar while fasting unless i reach extremely low body fat percentages like sub 5% which if anyone is sub 5% they shouldnt long term fast anyways.

Are you monitoring blood glucose while doing this?

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Artificial sweeteners can absolutely knock you out of ketosis as it affects your insulin levels just like sugar. Some people less so the others though. Also it totally depends on the sweetener, there is a scale someone that shows how much each sweetener affects blood sugar.

Absolutely false.

[Immitis]

@Immitis

So you don't do real refeeds? AND you also fast? How long are your fasting times? Tbh since all those years that I've been lifting I never met someone who could do a keto without a proper cycle AND significantly progress performance-wise. For someone like me this is hard to believe since I pulled of all my personal records while on a pretty high carb diet...but I believe this can work. There is a dude I guess his name was Dr. Shawn Baker who does a so called carnivore diet. He mostly eats meat and pulled of some weightlifting records...so I guess everything is possible.

what do you mean by real refeed? i eat around 2500 calories a day and on the first day of eating i usually get 3000

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Are you monitoring blood glucose while doing this?

not on a day to day basis no

[Deleted]

what do you mean by real refeed? i eat around 2500 calories a day and on the first day of eating i usually get 3000

Well, everyone I know who suceeded with keto did a cyclycal ketogenic diet in which you do carb refeeds regularly. I believe the first refeed is after 2-3 weeks when your body adapted to the keto and after that it is usually 1 refeed weekly. This worked for me to, actually I did my first 660lbs lift when I still was in keto and just starting to boost my calorie intake again.
But tbh I don't see how this could work on a strict keto while actually fasting now and then. So I am curious.

[Immitis]

Well, everyone I know who suceeded with keto did a cyclycal ketogenic diet in which you do carb refeeds regularly. I believe the first refeed is after 2-3 weeks when your body adapted to the keto and after that it is usually 1 refeed weekly. This worked for me to, actually I did my first 660lbs lift when I still was in keto and just starting to boost my calorie intake again.
But tbh I don't see how this could work on a strict keto while actually fasting now and then. So I am curious.

no carb refeeds. just keto.

theres alot of people who do keto and lift

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/

[Deleted]

no carb refeeds. just keto.

theres alot of people who do keto and lift

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/

I don't see much gains on that site though, seems more like beginners trying to get in shape and lose weight. Which is also a good thing. Just not what I was looking for.

Gonna get to work now and stop pissing you off. Hope you did not get this wrong, I have a hard time translating my thoughts into english sometimes. So I tend to create some misunderstandings now and then.

[Immitis]

I don't see much gains on that site though, seems more like beginners trying to get in shape and lose weight. Which is also a good thing. Just not what I was looking for.

Gonna get to work now and stop pissing you off. Hope you did not get this wrong, I have a hard time translating my thoughts into english sometimes. So I tend to create some misunderstandings now and then.

oh no, im not pissed off at all sorry if it came off that way i was enjoying the conversation. theres definitely alot of beginners on there but theres also a few who have made some serious gains/been able to maintain while on keto. although they generally dont do strict keto. usually they do 30 - 50 grams of carbs instead of the standard 20

[Farrarie]

I hope someday this website have a law, that forbid people to talk about other stuff than gamming.

[Regalbeast]

Eat so you are at a calorie deficit and you will lose weight

BAM just solved all ya'lls probs and speculations

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I hope someday this website have a law, that forbid people to talk about other stuff than gamming.

You do realize that you are in the "off-topic" forum area, right?

Of course you don't.

[Immitis]

Eat so you are at a calorie deficit and you will lose weight

BAM just solved all ya'lls probs and speculations

until your metabolism lowers to compensate and then you gain it all back because you think you've lost enough weight to not diet anymore or need to go on a stricter diet in order to continue losing which is a downward spiral

[Regalbeast]

until your metabolism lowers to compensate and then you gain it all back because you think you've lost enough weight to not diet anymore or need to go on a stricter diet in order to continue losing which is a downward spiral

No, you just always eat at a deficit until you hit your goal and then you zero out and maintain.

The only people who gain the weight back are those who have no self-control or don't understand macros, calories, exercise, etc.

[Farrarie]

You do realize that you are in the "off-topic" forum area, right?

Of course you don't.

Haha, of-course I know that. Still this is a gamming site, and we see more topics about other things more than we see topics about gamming. Some times it end in unwanted hatred and conflict. Specially when it comes to politics, and as a gamer community its better to stay on gamming topics.
This site forbid people for sending religious believes videos right, then why not forbid politics and off-topics ?

[pkm]

until your metabolism lowers to compensate and then you gain it all back because you think you've lost enough weight to not diet anymore or need to go on a stricter diet in order to continue losing which is a downward spiral

Metabolism lowers because there is "less" of you, so there is less energy required for your body. There is no compensation going on.

So if you have a tdee of 3000 calories, lose about 20kg then your tdee would be around 2800~. This just gets lower and lower as you keep losing weight. Any "stalls" along the way is just water weight or miscalculating food intake.

[Immitis]

Metabolism lowers because there is "less" of you, so there is less energy required for your body. There is no compensation going on.

So if you have a tdee of 3000 calories, lose about 20kg then your tdee would be around 2800~. This just gets lower and lower as you keep losing weight. Any "stalls" along the way is just water weight or miscalculating food intake.

thats not how metabolism works. it stays lowered even if you gain weight back. the only way to increase metabolism is to increase caloric intake and offset that intake via exercise.

you can eat 4k calories a day and gain minimal weight since your metabolism will even out as long as you exercise a couple hours everyday

[Deleted]

Most of these "diets" are simply nonsense, based on flakey pseudoscience - and some of them are potentially very dangerous.

The best diet possible is simply one that is nutritionally balanced but which has slightly fewer calories than your body requires. This ensures you remain properly nourished with no shortages in essential elements, the worst side-effect is that you feel slightly hungrier than normal whilst you achieve a slow but steady loss in weight. This effect can be amplified by increased exercise levels.

Anything else is just rubbish, and many of these fads are anything but nutritionally balanced. They can leave your body short of proper nutrition or induce dangerous swings in things like blood sugars.

Any diet that promises to induce rapid weight loss is a fad. It's not sustainable, since it does not modify your long term habits, and there is every chance that your body will go into starvation mode, meaning as soon as you start eating proper food again, it will put on all that weight again in the form of fat.

These "diets" are fakery, promoted by peopel who are only interested in flogging stuff to people who want a quick fix

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No, you just always eat at a deficit until you hit your goal and then you zero out and maintain.

The only people who gain the weight back are those who have no self-control or don't understand macros, calories, exercise, etc.

Not quite true. If you have a big deficit in calories, which these 'diets' often involve, your body can go into starvation mode. In starvation mode when you exit the diet, your body slows it's metablism (for example, by lowering body temperature slightly, in mammals one of the biggest uses of energy is producing heat, which is why reptiles can survive on about 10% of the food intake a mammal requires) and tries toprocess food more efficiently in order to regain the weight and fat stores in has lost.

You just have to remember that your body doesn;t really want to lose weight. Evolution means that the body regards having fat stores is a good thing. When it loses them, it triggers mechanisms that were evolved to cope with a food shortage.

When you eat fewer calories than you need, your body thinks you are living in a famine, or at least a period of shortage, therefore, it tries to reduce your calorie usage and willtry to regain it's fat stores when the 'famine' is over. That is why people on very strict diets feel cold.

This is a reason why so many people regain weight - even though they are still eating fewer calories than they were pre-diet.

It is also why weight loss is best achieved at a very slow and steady pace. In that way you can achieve a 'new norma' rather than the wild swings these fad "diets" involve. Even worse, extreme diets can even cause your body to consume not just fat, but lean muscle as well.


By the way, it is also correct that someone who is obese will use more calories than someone who isn't. The body uses more just to move around, just like you would if you were carrying a thirty pound bag of cement on your back all day. This is one reason, amongst many, why weight loss is more rapid at the start of a diet, and also why someone who is really morbidly obese willlsoe weight very quickly in the early days.