Method just killed Argus on Mythic

[hulkgor]

Aside from... you know, allowing you to do either heroic or mythic ONLY on that character for the lockout? Just like all expansions prior to the introduction of Flex raiding?

Wouldn't stop the 20 split runs on week 1 though, but yes, it would be something.

[Deleted]

You aren't relevant, the current state of the game doesn't apply to you if you aren't currently subbed, you're probably an LFR hero who'd never experience the balance in mythic anyways.

Or Im disgruntled mythic raider who thinks most of the Legion raids have had utterly shit tuning.
But go on, do try to insult me more, I do like when white knights like you rush to defend Blizzard.

[Logwyn]

now do the math how long did they play in this one week and show me people who play that much in one week and are that good

Lichking for example had limited number of tries per id: quote from paragon website: "The Lich King is now dead in 25-man. Getting the kill took us more than 170 tries, and today we were left with 20/35 tries."

I bet they got those number of tries one on day

So whats the average length of a try? 10 minutes? At 170 tries that 1700 minutes or 28 1/3 hours. Did they really spend 28 hours in one sitting? If so that's insane. If it wasn't for the logs showing how good the numbers are. I'd just say its just rise and repeat until the lucky roll of crits happens and the boobing up doesn't happen that 170th time.

I'd be very interested in how long it takes for the second kill to happen? The very next week?

[Sylvaeres]

10/11 on first day.
11/11 after first reset.

Well done Blizz.. loool.. such a joke tuning again..

And gz Method!

Kill him, then say that. Because you're talking without any concept of the fact that those players have been doing endless split runs in mythic TOS, and heroic Antorus to gear the fuck out of their toons, not to mention 7 day raid weeks of 12+ hours a day.

[corebit]

Always funny to see whenever a World First guild finishes the last boss, out come the fake hardcore players who scream "Too easy, shit tuning!"

They think Mythic Kil'jaeden which lasted three weeks is somehow good tuning, but in fact it was the worst tuned boss with lots of bugs at the start. Both Method and Exorsus complained about these bugs, and it was after some fixes and nerfs that Kil'jaeden was finally killable, but the time Blizzard took to fix them was appalling.

However these people equate buggy and overtuned boss with challenging, since apparently the only difficulty metric that counts is time wasted on the boss.

[Deleted]

Kill him, then say that. Because you're talking without any concept of the fact that those players have been doing endless split runs in mythic TOS, and heroic Antorus to gear the fuck out of their toons, not to mention 7 day raid weeks of 12+ hours a day.

How do you know I don't have any concept of split runs? Do you know me? Maybe I know exactly what I'm talking about?
So how about this - you stop telling me what I should post because you're not a mod - and I keep my opinion (lol, what a joke raid).
Good deal, right?

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They think Mythic Kil'jaeden which lasted three weeks is somehow good tuning

I don't think anyone actually thinks KJ (or ToS) was well tuned raid? But neither is Antorus.
In fact Blizzard has ruined 3 raids in this expac with their shitty tuning, only ToV and NH were decent and you could argue that ToV wasn't really a raid, just something they did in panic.

The problem is - The devs don't listen to Blizzard's own QA raid team and since that is a junior position, no one stays in it for long - they move on. So their internal QA is shit - and the devs are too ego to listen to them anyway. Add a shitty TF system that makes your starting gear a total RNG dice roll - and the devs are suddenly neck deep in their own shitty design, because they're too incompetent to figure out how that affects raid tuning - the result.. Legion: Awesome raid potential, shittest ever implmenetation due to bad tuning. After Antorus, it's pretty obvious it's a 180-degree kneejerk to complaints about ToS being overtuned - so now it's a fucking joke - except the last boss which was panic adjusted when they realized guilds were going to steam the place in 1 day.

[Ryry]

Retarded statement once again. "Well show me ur mythic" Did he even say that he would clear it? Did any of us?
We came here to watch the best of the best fighting for weeks over a world first. Seeing them clear it all in 1 week time is a massive dissapointment and a big failure of Blizzard.

But your whiteknight eyes will probably not see that part. all you see is "Show me ur mythic then" Because that is all you can say.

Infracted.

Hey buddy relax. Anyways the top guilds don't ever really fight for weeks unless it's bugged or impossible. 300+ wipes is still constitutes a strong boss.

[Zerenty]

Was there ever any doubt ?

[Spaze]

So whats the average length of a try? 10 minutes? At 170 tries that 1700 minutes or 28 1/3 hours. Did they really spend 28 hours in one sitting? If so that's insane. If it wasn't for the logs showing how good the numbers are. I'd just say its just rise and repeat until the lucky roll of crits happens and the boobing up doesn't happen that 170th time.

I'd be very interested in how long it takes for the second kill to happen? The very next week?

they had over 380 tries so more than double the tries on lich king and i guess there were a few short ones in the beginning
its no secret that they raid more than 8 hours a day when new content is released and they were sitting 6 day on him so whats your argument there ?

[gobio]

Did you clear it? No? STFU.

On the surface this seems rude, but in reality, highly appropriate, because :

"Hey Method people, I know you clear Antorus in 2 CD, I judge that this is too quick, not much of an accomplishment as compared to old raid, I deemed that it should take you months to finish any raid for you to earn my respect" - sorry, for me, this is more rude.

[Themanintobuildafire]

Are you aware that only 0.44% of the player base is above 6/11M ?

I wonder if this is due to the amount of players that actually raid + the amount that raid but at this time of the year have other RL stuff going on and so maybe aren't hitting M until January? I thought the total amount that raid mythic to begin with was quite low?

Also I am not agreeing with the guy who said it was too easy. However, I do find it funny that end bosses are killed on mythic faster than regular subscribers can see it through LFR by something like a month.

[Deleted]

True, but the point still stands that these too end guilds put in more work preparing for fights than most players do during the fight.
My mistake thinking it was on the PtR, but as others have stated, Method had 300 (give or take) wipes before killing the boss. While previous bosses like mythic Archie took way more than that, 300 is a number a lot of guilds don't even get to over the course of a month.
Either way, however much easier it is than previous end raid bosses, it's still an achievement to clear the boss and do something so fast that a lot of people can't even try to do.
So, as I said, grats to them!

Mythic Archie took 472 tries a lot of which were because of lock out issues, bugs and other shit.
A lot of all the other end tier bosses took a lot less then 300. Deathwing comes to mind with like 50 wipes.
Garrosh was 325 wipes etc.

300 isn't a crazy low number as you people make it out to be. Its just low compared to KJ which was just bugged and overtuned to shit.

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Or Im disgruntled mythic raider who thinks most of the Legion raids have had utterly shit tuning.
But go on, do try to insult me more, I do like when white knights like you rush to defend Blizzard.

I think you can pick a lot better topics to show your "hatred in" then this one tbh.

The raid was cleared in 1 week by a guild that does the optimal amount of PTR testing possible, did 9 split runs the weeks before meaning they had mains and alts fully decked out in gear we normal people won't see for another 3 months they raid 18 hours a day for weeks if needed and they are the best players in the world.

Not sure how you think the tuning should be done for these people if they are better then anyone on the QA team in blizzard and better then anyone other player in the game + spend more time in the game then both of the parties combined.

Like, what do you expect? The only way you can make it last longer then a week is overtuning it to shit (making it impossible) or make it riddled with bugs. Anything else and Method will figure it out in one of their 7 18 hour days of raiding + their 3 months worth of gear on their chars.

[Logwyn]

they had over 380 tries so more than double the tries on lich king and i guess there were a few short ones in the beginning
its no secret that they raid more than 8 hours a day when new content is released and they were sitting 6 day on him so whats your argument there ?

Is there more to the just do it till it happens due to all the numbers lining up or more to being skilled? How long till kill number 2 happens for them? The next reset or is it longer?

[IceMan1763]

They don't care about the mythic race beyond, grats you won. And there's zero reason they should, you start basing things around what Method does to compete and it just starts trickling down and hurting other raid teams, I mean... look at what people suggest to get rid of split raiding... forced personal with no trading, account locks, etc. its all horrible.

I agree Mythic raiding is low priority for Blizzard... and it shows!!

Right now they are tuning things around what Method and other guilds competing for world firsts are willing to do. That is the EXACT problem. What they're doing to compete is unrealistic for 99.9% of the people in this world just on the basis of having the free time necessary. I see nothing wrong with forced personal loot, but I think restrictive gearing rules only for Mythic is a better solution. Primarily because the rules LITERALLY would only apply to Mythic difficulty. Examples that would have worked well for Legion:

1) Any gear worn from lower difficulties of the same raid will be templated down to a standard which works out to non WF/TF Heroic gear from the previous raid. Boom! Head shot... split raiding DEAD.
2) Legiondaries templated in a similar way... any procs or secondary effects turned off
3) Cut off points for max level character progression (i.e. Traits). Traits beyond a certain point would be disabled, where that would be depends on the raid but it would be at a point where the average player wouldn't have much trouble reaching it before the raid launches.

These rules would all be lifted after a certain number of guilds cleared the raid.

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they had over 380 tries so more than double the tries on lich king and i guess there were a few short ones in the beginning
its no secret that they raid more than 8 hours a day when new content is released and they were sitting 6 day on him so whats your argument there ?

Lich King was limited attempts. If you brought that raid into the current day raiding scene with no limited attempts, there would have been guilds who put in 500-1000 attempts before he died. Did you know that Heroic Lich King took over 3 months to die???? I mean hell, if you're really multiplying it out, the equivalent attempts for Lich King would have been over 2,000 (700 a month at the pace Method put in attempts over two weeks) so really Argus was a cake walk in comparison.

[Hubbl3]

Lich King was limited attempts. If you brought that raid into the current day raiding scene with no limited attempts, there would have been guilds who put in 500-1000 attempts before he died. Did you know that Heroic Lich King took over 3 months to die???? I mean hell, if you're really multiplying it out, the equivalent attempts for Lich King would have been over 2,000 (700 a month at the pace Method put in attempts over two weeks) so really Argus was a cake walk in comparison.

What kind of stupid statement is this?

[Deleted]

Like, what do you expect?

I expected entertaining race. I got shit tuned race.
Sorry if that offends your thin skin.

If you look at the amount of guilds progressing in Antorus after first reset you'll also realize that the raid is a joke and the tuning is complete lolz.
Blizzard is just phoning it in at this point.

[Hubbl3]

I expected entertaining race. I got shit tuned race.
Sorry if that offends your thin skin.

If you look at the amount of guilds progressing in Antorus after first reset you'll also realize that the raid is a joke and the tuning is complete lolz.
Blizzard is just phoning it in at this point.

Method liked the instance and the Argus fight. Some would be more satisfied with a race 2-3 days (days, not weeks, not month) longer with a little bit higher tuning for the the last 3 bosses before Argus. But I guess what they want doesn't matter

[IceMan1763]

What kind of stupid statement is this?

A logical statement pointing out that the number of attempts comparison is completely useless with heroic LK?

What kind of statement is "What kind of stupid statement is this?"? The response of a moron with no counter points or argument of their own?

[Hubbl3]

A logical statement pointing out that the number of attempts comparison is completely useless with heroic LK?

What kind of statement is "What kind of stupid statement is this?"? The response of a moron with no counter points or argument of their own?

That was not the point of the OP you've quoted or the entire chain of comments?

[IceMan1763]

That was not the point of the OP you've quoted or the entire chain of comments?

So any tangent of conversation beyond "Method is so awesome... grats guys!" is off base? Is it my fault or the person I literally quoted who was comparing the number of attempts on Argus to the number of attempts on Lich King?

Are you a mod in this forum? If not, please stop policing conversations. I have a feeling you only dislike the conversational tangent because I had the audacity to suggest that Argus is no where near as difficult as heroic LK was.