1. #1

    Artifact Traits value in PVP

    Hello everyone,

    I have not done much pvp this expansion, but I was thinking about trying some arenas with my friends.

    I am sure this question has been asked and answered a few times, but I haven't found the answer yet.

    What is the artifact traits cap in pvp if there is any ? I know that concordance gives 60% of the main stats, but what about % stam and % dmg with each new traits ? Is there a limit to it ?

    I am planning to play resto druid.

  2. #2
    They removed the cap when argus appeared, there is no cap on artifact power in pvp anymore, so the more you have the more powerful you will be.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ilik2345 View Post
    They removed the cap when argus appeared, there is no cap on artifact power in pvp anymore, so the more you have the more powerful you will be.
    I did not know that. Is this true? I know stamina was capped to a certain extent but if this is true it shows Blizz threw in the towel for PVP this expansion.

  4. #4
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    Legion was a great expansion for pve but one of the worst expansions for pvp.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Irlking View Post
    Legion was a great expansion for pve but one of the worst expansions for pvp.
    i think the barrier to entry has been a lot lower this xpac than others, I can roll in on an alt and smash stuff already buuut... in most other aspects yeah, its been not so great.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resentless View Post
    i think the barrier to entry has been a lot lower this xpac than others, I can roll in on an alt and smash stuff already buuut... in most other aspects yeah, its been not so great.
    Not even that. The barrier was far lower in Wod, not mention that you were able to reach equal playing field in few weeks when you basically can't reach that at all now.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shuubi View Post
    Not even that. The barrier was far lower in Wod, not mention that you were able to reach equal playing field in few weeks when you basically can't reach that at all now.
    Heh, PLEASE.

    Sure, having the gear scale up was allright, but those who had been capping conquest still had a good 40-50 ilvls on you at the start. Sure, you could catch up quickly enough, but it was an extreme grind through whatever PvP method you wanted to do, and people with certain trinkets would just pulverize you. A LOT of playing to be sure.

    Now? You can quickly catch up in terms of honor (While you may not be super optimal, getting the first talents unlocked only requires ~10 games plus PvP dailies). You can hit Concordance under 10 dailies. Getting 75 artifact lvls, which is where most long-term players are at, requires the same time as catching up in WoD did.

    Gear? 880s from Argus drops, pretty common, and 910s from relinquished gear, you can easily farm up 5 a day. Even then, it only provides a 10-15% stat boost, FAR smaller then the almost 2x that you had in WoD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuubi View Post
    Not even that. The barrier was far lower in Wod, not mention that you were able to reach equal playing field in few weeks when you basically can't reach that at all now.
    Lol bullshit. If you came into a BG in questing greens in Wod you got roflstomped. I'd know, i was usually the one doing the stomping. These days the difference is far less noticeable. Any gear increase is far less meaningful and you can be useful at any gear level. I agree it takes a lot longer to catch up now but seeing as the difference in power for those who have and those who haven't is insubstantial i don't see this as a major problem.
    Ily mmoc

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Talsar View Post
    Lol bullshit. If you came into a BG in questing greens in Wod you got roflstomped. I'd know, i was usually the one doing the stomping. These days the difference is far less noticeable. Any gear increase is far less meaningful and you can be useful at any gear level. I agree it takes a lot longer to catch up now but seeing as the difference in power for those who have and those who haven't is insubstantial i don't see this as a major problem.
    I think this is what I meant. Getting on an actual completely even playing field (same traits, same ilvl for the same % stat increase) is harder due to the sheer amount of time needed to farm out the ap and if you only gear through PvP you need to be extremely lucky, but the difference between the very top and the very bottom is nothing like it used to be, and the difference between an above average and an extreme player is negligible at best.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Heh, PLEASE.

    Sure, having the gear scale up was allright, but those who had been capping conquest still had a good 40-50 ilvls on you at the start. Sure, you could catch up quickly enough, but it was an extreme grind through whatever PvP method you wanted to do, and people with certain trinkets would just pulverize you. A LOT of playing to be sure.

    Now? You can quickly catch up in terms of honor (While you may not be super optimal, getting the first talents unlocked only requires ~10 games plus PvP dailies). You can hit Concordance under 10 dailies. Getting 75 artifact lvls, which is where most long-term players are at, requires the same time as catching up in WoD did.

    Gear? 880s from Argus drops, pretty common, and 910s from relinquished gear, you can easily farm up 5 a day. Even then, it only provides a 10-15% stat boost, FAR smaller then the almost 2x that you had in WoD.
    Um... did you even play in Wod?

    Max pvp gear was 710. Honor gear was 700. You could get full 700 in a manner of hours. I'm not even talking about 24 hours or anything like that, more like 4-6 hours. Just hop on to ashran, finish the events, loot the treestumps and whatnot for fragments. Exit ashran, get into a new one and repeat (the treestump and others, not talking about the daily events). If you got into a winnish ashran for a while, even better but not required for this. You even got a free conquest item and some conquest while doing this.

    After that just hit up lfg for some 2vs2 partners and rest is up to you. Thanks to conquest catch up you were at max pvp performance gearwise in no time. Didn't have no artifact to worry about. The fact that you would have gotten stomped for the first 4 hours of your pvp life is really irrelevant. What matters is how long it takes to reach equal playing field.

    The Wod system for pvp overall kicks the living shite out legion's system. Legion is a better xpack in all other aspects though.
    Last edited by mmocfb2225cee0; 2017-12-14 at 01:51 PM.

  11. #11
    Now? You can quickly catch up in terms of honor (While you may not be super optimal, getting the first talents unlocked only requires ~10 games plus PvP dailies). You can hit Concordance under 10 dailies. Getting 75 artifact lvls, which is where most long-term players are at, requires the same time as catching up in WoD did.
    So when conquest was about, you could be on a even playing field within a week of a few hours a day toward the end of the expansion (and solely from pvp) - due to the catchup on conquest, are you trying to say you can get 75 ap and 960+ ilvl and all your honor talents within the same time frame?? As in a week of a couple hours a day? Seems extremely unlikely via pve amd impossible via only pvp.
    Last edited by ilik2345; 2017-12-14 at 02:12 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilik2345 View Post
    So when conquest was about, you could be on a even playing field within a week of a few hours a day toward the end of the expansion (and solely from pvp) - due to the catchup on conquest, are you trying to say you can get 75 ap and 960+ ilvl and all your honor talents within the same time frame?? As in a week of a couple hours a day? Seems extremely unlikely via pve amd impossible via only pvp.
    You don't need 960 ilvl. Unlike before, huge ilvl differences don't provide anywhere near the same power difference as it did in WoD. You are looking at 15% preformance difference, tops, and in comparision to WoD, where a fresh 100 had half the stats in PvP as a geared 100, yes. Yes, you could farm the shit out of ashran and catch up quicker that way, but you 100% were NOT looking at 4-6 hours for most of the playerbase, you were likely looking at a week or more to deck yourself out in full honor.

    Also, I would like to point out that the ONLY portion of the Netherlight Crucible that affects PvP is the ilvl boost, which is available at exactly 0 artifact level - You don't even have to invest AP in a weapon to get the ilvl boost on all 3 relics. The bonus affects are NOT active in PvP. I used 75 as a benchmark as its likely that most of the playerbase will stop grinding there. And again, if you visit the various AP complaint threads, you will see multiple posters who will repeatedly say that with just 2 hours a day, you can hit 75 in ~2 weeks, as long as you are efficient in your time.

    And for a fresh 110 just starting out? 5 dailies that yield 2-3 billion AP each will let you hit Concordance. GRATZ, there is now ONLY a 30% difference between you and people who have been playing for months in terms of stats. Do 3 days worth of PvP dailies, and you now have the first column of PvP talents unlocked. Hit up Argus for the next 2 weeks, and you are now within 15% of the playerbase thats been playing non-stop, similar to catch-up for the previous expansion.

    Again, initial catch-up is FAR faster then previous expansions - Ilvl doesn't have anywhere near the difference it did in the past. Unlocking Concordance allows you to actually hit 2s and BGs and NOT be a complete deadweight, rather then having to sneak around Ashran hitting hour-long loot spawns continuasly. Unlocking the first set of PvP talents helps to put you on much better ground and can be done quickly, and unlocking all of the honor talents can be done at the same time as hitting BOTH artifact lvl 75, AND getting your ilvl on up to a respectable lvl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ilik2345 View Post
    So when conquest was about, you could be on a even playing field within a week of a few hours a day toward the end of the expansion (and solely from pvp) - due to the catchup on conquest, are you trying to say you can get 75 ap and 960+ ilvl and all your honor talents within the same time frame?? As in a week of a couple hours a day? Seems extremely unlikely via pve amd impossible via only pvp.
    Exactly.

    This is the worst expansion in the history of the game for alts and off specs in PVE and PVP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Again, initial catch-up is FAR faster then previous expansions - Ilvl doesn't have anywhere near the difference it did in the past. Unlocking Concordance allows you to actually hit 2s and BGs and NOT be a complete deadweight, rather then having to sneak around Ashran hitting hour-long loot spawns continuasly. Unlocking the first set of PvP talents helps to put you on much better ground and can be done quickly, and unlocking all of the honor talents can be done at the same time as hitting BOTH artifact lvl 75, AND getting your ilvl on up to a respectable lvl.
    The initial catchup isn't faster than previous expansions. Alt creation and people playing off specs is an all time low in PVE and PVP.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Heh, PLEASE.

    Sure, having the gear scale up was allright, but those who had been capping conquest still had a good 40-50 ilvls on you at the start. Sure, you could catch up quickly enough, but it was an extreme grind through whatever PvP method you wanted to do, and people with certain trinkets would just pulverize you. A LOT of playing to be sure.

    Getting 75 artifact lvls, which is where most long-term players are at, requires the same time as catching up in WoD did.

    Gear? 880s from Argus drops, pretty common, and 910s from relinquished gear, you can easily farm up 5 a day. Even then, it only provides a 10-15% stat boost, FAR smaller then the almost 2x that you had in WoD.
    Maybe if you play 23 hrs/day

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Irlking View Post
    Legion was a great expansion for pve but one of the worst expansions for pvp.
    it wasnt "one of the worst", it was the worst

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    You don't need 960 ilvl. Unlike before, huge ilvl differences don't provide anywhere near the same power difference as it did in WoD. You are looking at 15% preformance difference, tops, and in comparision to WoD, where a fresh 100 had half the stats in PvP as a geared 100, yes. Yes, you could farm the shit out of ashran and catch up quicker that way, but you 100% were NOT looking at 4-6 hours for most of the playerbase, you were likely looking at a week or more to deck yourself out in full honor.

    Also, I would like to point out that the ONLY portion of the Netherlight Crucible that affects PvP is the ilvl boost, which is available at exactly 0 artifact level - You don't even have to invest AP in a weapon to get the ilvl boost on all 3 relics. The bonus affects are NOT active in PvP. I used 75 as a benchmark as its likely that most of the playerbase will stop grinding there. And again, if you visit the various AP complaint threads, you will see multiple posters who will repeatedly say that with just 2 hours a day, you can hit 75 in ~2 weeks, as long as you are efficient in your time.

    And for a fresh 110 just starting out? 5 dailies that yield 2-3 billion AP each will let you hit Concordance. GRATZ, there is now ONLY a 30% difference between you and people who have been playing for months in terms of stats. Do 3 days worth of PvP dailies, and you now have the first column of PvP talents unlocked. Hit up Argus for the next 2 weeks, and you are now within 15% of the playerbase thats been playing non-stop, similar to catch-up for the previous expansion.

    Again, initial catch-up is FAR faster then previous expansions - Ilvl doesn't have anywhere near the difference it did in the past. Unlocking Concordance allows you to actually hit 2s and BGs and NOT be a complete deadweight, rather then having to sneak around Ashran hitting hour-long loot spawns continuasly. Unlocking the first set of PvP talents helps to put you on much better ground and can be done quickly, and unlocking all of the honor talents can be done at the same time as hitting BOTH artifact lvl 75, AND getting your ilvl on up to a respectable lvl.
    I concede some people might of taken a week, back then i played a couple of hours a day and managed to get full honor and some conquest via a week of casual pvp. Fairly sure we are agreeing there

    Netherlight requires a fairly lengthy quest chain. And yes, ap is uncapped this expansion so yep, you need 75 ap to be 'on par'. 2 weeks you say, well it took me a lot longer but everyones milage differs, already 200% longer then previous expansion going by that alone. If you only want to pvp i'd say you need quadruple that time if not longer.

    30% difference on concordance + 15% diff on gear, so your ok with 45% diff from scratch vs 9% diff in pvp gear in previous expansions? not what i would call a improvement.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Heh, PLEASE.

    Sure, having the gear scale up was allright, but those who had been capping conquest still had a good 40-50 ilvls on you at the start. Sure, you could catch up quickly enough, but it was an extreme grind through whatever PvP method you wanted to do, and people with certain trinkets would just pulverize you. A LOT of playing to be sure.
    .... nope. You could fully gear for PvP in six hours of not even PvPing. That was the barrier of entry. You didn't even have to fight mobs if you didn't want to.

    Now? You can quickly catch up in terms of honor (While you may not be super optimal, getting the first talents unlocked only requires ~10 games plus PvP dailies). You can hit Concordance under 10 dailies. Getting 75 artifact lvls, which is where most long-term players are at, requires the same time as catching up in WoD did.
    Nope. You could be fully CQ geared in 7-8 weeks without ever setting foot in an Arena. (*at the start of the season; later, you could do it in hours) Much faster if you did Arena. And... "getting the first talents unlocked" is only useful for about 5 classes. Some classes require all the talents to be unlocked and some classes (tanks) dont need PvP talents at all (in fact, some of them HURT you).

    Gear? 880s from Argus drops, pretty common, and 910s from relinquished gear, you can easily farm up 5 a day. Even then, it only provides a 10-15% stat boost, FAR smaller then the almost 2x that you had in WoD.
    Math isn't your thing.

    The stat difference from full Honor to Full Conquest (in any expansion) was never more than 9.4%. You could have full honor (+3 pieces of Conquest, if you went and loitered near the events) in six hours.

    And.. two hours a day for two weeks get you Artifact 75? Yeah... no. Doing emissaries every day, hitting up big AP WQs whey they are around, doing all the AP class hall missions, doing the Broken Isles mission for the huge AP token twice every time it is up....

    And im still at 71 on my "main". Lets not forget that Artifact levels still grant stamina, so the difference between a fresh 110 and a guy with 75 artifact levels is gigantic. Love seeing those fury warriors rolling around with 11million HP while my tanks has 7.

    TLDR:

    You have no idea what you're talking about, whereas about 11 months ago, and then again 4 months after that, and again at launch, we did all of this with math. Extensively.

    The new system is not any more friendly or less gear-dependent than the old one.

    You were lied to.
    Last edited by Kagthul; 2017-12-31 at 08:15 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilik2345 View Post
    I concede some people might of taken a week, back then i played a couple of hours a day and managed to get full honor and some conquest via a week of casual pvp. Fairly sure we are agreeing there

    Netherlight requires a fairly lengthy quest chain. And yes, ap is uncapped this expansion so yep, you need 75 ap to be 'on par'. 2 weeks you say, well it took me a lot longer but everyones milage differs, already 200% longer then previous expansion going by that alone. If you only want to pvp i'd say you need quadruple that time if not longer.

    30% difference on concordance + 15% diff on gear, so your ok with 45% diff from scratch vs 9% diff in pvp gear in previous expansions? not what i would call a improvement.
    Concordance isn't a blank 30% stat improvement though - Its a temporary burst boost that is weaker in PvP situations. It procs about 2 times a minute, 20/60 is 33% overall uptime. Its also halved in PvP. Other then that, its also ~18% stamina, compared to someone with NO concordance.

    Whats more, thats the stat difference as soon as you hit 110. NOT after you've spent weeks catching up. Sure, there wasn't much difference between honor gear and conquest, but a fresh 110 had half the stats. PvP wasn't FUN until you caught up in Warlords, because anyone who's been playing would simply stomp on you. Its not fun to run around Ashran, running away from anyone you come across so you don't lose your fragments. It's not fun to go into a BG, and then be a dead weight for the rest of the game. Its not fun to be unable to do Arena, because nobody will invite you at lower ilvls.

    Unlocking Concordance takes 1-2 dailies. You don't need ANY sort of gear to complete those dailies. An additional 10 lvls into Concordance can be completed by JUST doing all available dailies. Once you reach that point, the actual difference in stats is 500 overall primary stats.. Thats not even a 1% overall DPS gain. Burstwise? 1500 overall primary stats. Your burst is increased by 3%. Yes, reaching 75 is a slog, but you aren't gaining MUCH power from it, compared to what a day full of dailies get you. The biggest gain is 7% Stamina, going from 62 (A day full of dailies) to 75 (A week of grinding AP). It's significant, yes, but not TOO much.

    The Netherlight Crucible only represents a 2 overall ilvl gain. You don't reach 75 Artifact lvl for the Netherlight buffs in PvP - You reach 75 Artifact lvl because that's were most ppl stop working on Concordance, so you can consider yourself "caught up" on AP at that point. Not, however, that reaching just 70 Artifact lvl, which is pretty much half-way to 75 in terms of overall AP cost, shrinks your damage gap to less then 1%, and your stamina gap to 2.4%, miniscule.

    So, now we can see that Ilvl is the MAIN source of power difference between someone at 3 days into 110, and someone who has been playing for months. Principles of War gives you +.1% overall stats per ilvl over 800. Now, a completly fresh 110 will probably be around 800, so they will have 0% stat boost. A Mythic PvE player with great titanforging, sitting at 970 ilvl, will have a 17% ilvl boost.
    Now, that fresh 110 will want to do Argus, to get 910 ilvls in all his slots. Note that if you do EACH rare, and get EACH chest, you can get 3 pieces of 910 a day. You also get enough Argunite when doing the initial quests to get an extra 2 pieces. So thats 6 pieces of at LEAST 910 ilvl items, during the first day when you work towards unlocking the Netherlight Crucible (Yes, it can be done in a day. Its about a 4 hour questing slog)

    So, first day of Argus, 5 pieces of 910. Second day, 8 pieces of 910. Third day, 11 pieces of 910. Fourth day, 14 pieces of 910. Finally, last day? 17 pieces of 910, you can be considered caught up in ilvl.

    So, 1 week in. In terms of Artifact Power, you now have less then 3% stamina difference between you, and that guy who's been here since day 1. In terms of stat difference, you now have a 11% stat boost, at LEAST. A PvE hero only has 17% stat boost, and a pure PvPer will probably have around a 14% stat boost.

    So you now have 5% less stamina, and 3% less other stats, compared to people who've been here forever. You got your 2 legendaries, and your weapon is full 910s with Crucibles? Nice, you are at 12% stat boost, 2% off the 940-949 ppl! You got half your shit titanforged? Gratz, 1% off!

    So, yes. Catch-up requires a weeks worth of playing. 1 week. You are less then 3% behind people who have been playing for months. Yes, you had to sit down and grind, and do 80% of available content constantly. If you did Antorus LFR, and then Antorus Normal, you might even be closer to them. If you did M+10, or even got carried through a M+15, even closer. If you did every single raid and mythic dungeon, AND every single dailies, you ARE at 75, and you likely have NO piece below 910.

    But, lets say that you don't want to grind that much, and you are fine with just doing the available Argus WQs, AND emissaries. Whelp, thats about 3 weeks to get caught up to ppl playing for months. This is basically the same as a person just doing a weekly Ashran, and a daily BG in Warlords. At that rate, it would take them MONTHS to catch up.

    Catch up has NEVER been easier. I have the numbers to back me up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Concordance isn't a blank 30% stat improvement though - Its a temporary burst boost that is weaker in PvP situations. It procs about 2 times a minute, 20/60 is 33% overall uptime. Its also halved in PvP. Other then that, its also ~18% stamina, compared to someone with NO concordance.

    Whats more, thats the stat difference as soon as you hit 110. NOT after you've spent weeks catching up. Sure, there wasn't much difference between honor gear and conquest, but a fresh 110 had half the stats.
    Which he only had to have for six hours. If you just stuck to the outside route (mostly running across beaches) you would almost never even see a player.

    Or, alternatively, if you managed to get into a Ashran that your side was doing well in, you could make it even shorter because 90% of the time between events the group would go farm the ogres and other elites for fragments. My DK was fully honor geared in like four hours because of this. But, since that wasn't reliable, i stick with the 6 hours number. 7-8 if you're slow. (Also, dont be an idiot, carry the paper glider thing that sends fragments back).

    PvP wasn't FUN until you caught up in Warlords, because anyone who's been playing would simply stomp on you. Its not fun to run around Ashran, running away from anyone you come across so you don't lose your fragments. It's not fun to go into a BG, and then be a dead weight for the rest of the game. Its not fun to be unable to do Arena, because nobody will invite you at lower ilvls.

    Unlocking Concordance takes 1-2 dailies. You don't need ANY sort of gear to complete those dailies. An additional 10 lvls into Concordance can be completed by JUST doing all available dailies. Once you reach that point, the actual difference in stats is 500 overall primary stats.. Thats not even a 1% overall DPS gain. Burstwise? 1500 overall primary stats. Your burst is increased by 3%. Yes, reaching 75 is a slog, but you aren't gaining MUCH power from it, compared to what a day full of dailies get you. The biggest gain is 7% Stamina, going from 62 (A day full of dailies) to 75 (A week of grinding AP). It's significant, yes, but not TOO much.

    The Netherlight Crucible only represents a 2 overall ilvl gain. You don't reach 75 Artifact lvl for the Netherlight buffs in PvP - You reach 75 Artifact lvl because that's were most ppl stop working on Concordance, so you can consider yourself "caught up" on AP at that point. Not, however, that reaching just 70 Artifact lvl, which is pretty much half-way to 75 in terms of overall AP cost, shrinks your damage gap to less then 1%, and your stamina gap to 2.4%, miniscule.
    Your stamina numbers are way off. It's .75% per Artifact level for DPS and .5% for tanks (which compounds with tanks' innate stam bonus from their spec choice). Blizzard said going into 7.3 that the stam gain would scale down after the first point in Concordance, but extensive in game testing by the PvP community has shown that it is still just a static .75%/.5% per level.

    So, now we can see that Ilvl is the MAIN source of power difference between someone at 3 days into 110, and someone who has been playing for months. Principles of War gives you +.1% overall stats per ilvl over 800. Now, a completly fresh 110 will probably be around 800, so they will have 0% stat boost. A Mythic PvE player with great titanforging, sitting at 970 ilvl, will have a 17% ilvl boost.
    Now, that fresh 110 will want to do Argus, to get 910 ilvls in all his slots. Note that if you do EACH rare, and get EACH chest, you can get 3 pieces of 910 a day. You also get enough Argunite when doing the initial quests to get an extra 2 pieces. So thats 6 pieces of at LEAST 910 ilvl items, during the first day when you work towards unlocking the Netherlight Crucible (Yes, it can be done in a day. Its about a 4 hour questing slog)
    doing every rare isn't even possible in a given day (they dont all spawn). And if you did this... you're spending 8+ hours a day doing it.

    So, first day of Argus, 5 pieces of 910. Second day, 8 pieces of 910. Third day, 11 pieces of 910. Fourth day, 14 pieces of 910. Finally, last day? 17 pieces of 910, you can be considered caught up in ilvl.

    So, 1 week in. In terms of Artifact Power, you now have less then 3% stamina difference between you, and that guy who's been here since day 1. In terms of stat difference, you now have a 11% stat boost, at LEAST. A PvE hero only has 17% stat boost, and a pure PvPer will probably have around a 14% stat boost.

    So you now have 5% less stamina, and 3% less other stats, compared to people who've been here forever. You got your 2 legendaries, and your weapon is full 910s with Crucibles? Nice, you are at 12% stat boost, 2% off the 940-949 ppl! You got half your shit titanforged? Gratz, 1% off!

    So, yes. Catch-up requires a weeks worth of playing. 1 week. You are less then 3% behind people who have been playing for months. Yes, you had to sit down and grind, and do 80% of available content constantly. If you did Antorus LFR, and then Antorus Normal, you might even be closer to them. If you did M+10, or even got carried through a M+15, even closer. If you did every single raid and mythic dungeon, AND every single dailies, you ARE at 75, and you likely have NO piece below 910.
    So if you put 10+ hours a day into the game for weeks, doing nothing but PvE, you can catch up. Wow, seems legit.

    But, lets say that you don't want to grind that much, and you are fine with just doing the available Argus WQs, AND emissaries. Whelp, thats about 3 weeks to get caught up to ppl playing for months. This is basically the same as a person just doing a weekly Ashran, and a daily BG in Warlords. At that rate, it would take them MONTHS to catch up.
    First off, no, it isn't that quick to gain AP. I do (on my main only) Emissaries every day, hit any big AP quests (purple items) every day, do the Broken Shore mission for the huge AP token twice (sometimes three times) while it is up (depends on what i need to counter to get the time down). I do all three world bosses (Broken Shore, regular, and big portal), and every AP order hall mission that doesn't interfere with doing the money and blood of sargeras missions.

    I've been doing this since 7.3 launched, with a few days missed here or there for family reasons. I'm still 71. My other toons are behind that (because i only log them in long enough to do whatever 3 emissaries they have, do the greater invasion portal, 3 invasion quest, and fuel quest, once a week).

    Secondly... in WoD:

    Six weeks, seven or eight IF you get bad luck on your two free pieces of CQ gear from Ashran/week. Doing nothing but a single First Win BG, and Ashran weeklies once a week. I did it on 5 toons the entire xpac. (Well, my paladin i caught up in a week over the holidays, as he was freshly leveled and i had nothing to do for a few days while at my in-laws so i just parked in Ashran and farmed CQ up to the catch-up cap).

    Difference is, while you're doing that, you're less than 8% behind the best-geared players in the entire game, and closing every single time you get a new piece of CQ gear.

    Catch up has NEVER been easier. I have the numbers to back me up.
    Except your numbers are entirely wrong.

    Seriously, you can argue till you're blue in the face, we did the math. 3 different times. You're wrong. Full stop. Stepping foot into a single BG will tell you you are wrong.

    You're WAY off on the +stam contribution from Artifact Levels (i've gained 1.2 million HP in the last 9 levels on my warlock) for one thing, and the current system requires you to grind away while getting your face kicked in, or go do PvE to "get geared".

    A lot of PvP players dont want to be forced to do that shit to get their gear for PvP, and i dont blame them. It's a shit system.

    WoD: (and even Pandaria and Cata before that) 6-8 hours of not even PvPing (if you dont want to) on a freshly dinged level-capped character to be fully Honor-geared, and less than 9% behind the people who have been doing it since "day 1" - you keep harping on that for what fucknut reason i dont know - and are totally viable. There is literally nothing else you have to do. And every time you get a new piece of gear, you permanently close the gap a little (at least for the rest of the season, and if you're still playing when the next season starts, everyone is on the same level as you).

    Legion: Spend hours unlocking Honor talents. Sometimes weeks, depending on your class and spec. (No warlock spec is viable without all but the very last honor talent unlocked). Spend hours doing boring world quests (ill grant that farming Arti fragments in Ashran or sitting nodes in Tol Barad isn't any less boring, but at least it requires far less effort) to get basic gear, and then go to Argus and spend four to six days of 5+ hour play sessions to endlessly grind 910 gear for PvP. By doing PvE. Then spend 2-3 weeks to get to Artifact Power ~50 to be viable against people who have 75 (just between those two is a 13% stam difference, not even taking into account the Concordance power differential).

    Huh. 6 hours to total viability vs weeks to total viability.

    No, i'm not interested in that bridge you're selling in New York.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    You're WAY off on the +stam contribution from Artifact Levels (i've gained 1.2 million HP in the last 9 levels on my warlock) for one thing, and the current system requires you to grind away while getting your face kicked in, or go do PvE to "get geared".
    can you explain how exactly does that HP pool work? During last 20 concordance levels my feral got maybe 200k hp in instanced PvP. Also I have never seen fury warrior in instanced PvP with 11 mil. hp. With +10% hp talent I have around 5,7 mil hp, most I have seen on better dps players is around 5,9-6,1 mil hp.

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