Antorus Progression Thread

[Soluna]

Why are ppl acting so retarded? Of course blizz intentionally DIDN'T tune mythic this time to be like TOS. These raiders have LIVES outside the game, they can't spend a fucking month bashing their heads against mathematically impossible bosses. Would you do that? I bet not cause you are a pussy. And so what if Agrammar or Coven took less than a few hours to kill? You will still wipe for weeks on them cause you are nowhere near method's skill level. And it will take you months to kill Argus most likely. So stop whining like a little shit about content you haven't cleared getting stale. For FUCK'S SAKE!

[Eyechewer]

Why are ppl acting so retarded? Of course blizz intentionally DIDN'T tune mythic this time to be like TOS. These raiders have LIVES outside the game, they can't spend a fucking month bashing their heads against mathematically impossible bosses. Would you do that? I bet not cause you are a pussy. And so what if Agrammar or Coven took less than a few hours to kill? You will still wipe for weeks on them cause you are nowhere near method's skill level. And it will take you months to kill Argus most likely. So stop whining like a little shit about content you haven't cleared getting stale. For FUCK'S SAKE!

You seem mad bro. Chillax a bit, watch some netflix or something, drink cold water.

[Xeh.-]

I'm doubtful. There is very, very few people in WoW that have WF's, Rank 1's and all achieves done in the game (if any). Even finding people that have 2 out of the 3 is hard enough.

True, i wasnt going for r1 just glad. Felt completed enough to me. But you are right. For the time being (and I am talking about very very early WOTLK) everything was completed but very very few things that only required me to wait, thats when i started the boss kills thingy.

[Sarevokcz]

That is the point, even if last boss is a good one with that amount of wipes the tier as a whole is still a bad one thanks to rest of the bosses being so easy.

However the likely culprit is the fact that WF/TF system allows guilds to have way better gear than before which makes the instance easier.

so basically, the bosses are tuned for people not doing multiple splitruns each week and who cant swap entire raid comps on a whim? aka majority of mythic guilds?
sounds like an IDEAL tier.

I hate with passion how some people feel entitled they and they alone should have superhard bosses to bash their heads against 24/7 for weeks with no regards to 99% of mythic guilds who will struggle hard just to keep healthy roster (or just disband) with the burnout of multiple bosses taking a month for a regular guild just to progress.

[Seramore]

so basically, the bosses are tuned for people not doing multiple splitruns each week and who cant swap entire raid comps on a whim? aka majority of mythic guilds?
sounds like an IDEAL tier.

I hate with passion how some people feel entitled they and they alone should have superhard bosses to bash their heads against 24/7 for weeks with no regards to 99% of mythic guilds who will struggle hard just to keep healthy roster (or just disband) with the burnout of multiple bosses taking a month for a regular guild just to progress.

I'm pretty washed up but tbh this entire new raiding system introduced in 6.0(?) fucked up a lot of tuning. It encourages split raids and rewards people who do them more, especially with titanforged gear in consideration, compared to just having a shared lockout for Normal/Heroic (or for today's terms, Heroic/Mythic). Do you balance for the people who go the extra effort, or do you balance for the average Mythic guild? Or do you look for a middle ground?. It seems like it made balancing a lot harder for Blizzard than it was before.

[Loosecannon]

Here is an example of how it works.

You make a raid with 4 mains. 1 cloth user, 1 leather user, 1 mail user, 1 plate user. Fill the rest with 26 alts/friends.
Any cloth that drops goes to the main cloth user, same for the other armor types.

You get 6 pieces per boss that go to 4 mains. Giving you more then 1 item per player per boss (tho probably not everything will be an upgrade)

You repeat this until you have supplied all your mains. Lets see it takes you 7 splits to do so. Each has a few mains and the rest alts. Make sure all the characters are 'fresh' so they are eligible for loot. Thats why each of those top raiders needs to maintain a large number of alts.


You now have 11 bosses x6 items = 66 items x 7 raids is 462 items that have been fed to ~20 people or 23 items per player. (potentially, not everything will be an upgrade or usable)
And effectively crammed a month and a half of raiding into 1 week.

I guess you could make it *even* more efficient, for example, by having an entire raid of leather users, feeding to 1 or 2 mains for example? Would that work, or am i being a mong? Full druid raid for the best druid tier?

Guess it would be difficult for plate, because no plate ranged DPS, or cloth/mail because no tanks, but at this point it just becomes an issue of how much time/how many geared alts/friends a person can have.

[Cracked]

I guess you could make it *even* more efficient, for example, by having an entire raid of leather users, feeding to 1 or 2 mains for example? Would that work, or am i being a mong? Full druid raid for the best druid tier?

Guess it would be difficult for plate, because no plate ranged DPS, or cloth/mail because no tanks, but at this point it just becomes an issue of how much time/how many geared alts/friends a person can have.

Not viable in new content, due to personal loot trading limitations, ie can't trade the new, high ilvl loot (and sets sometimes).

[Loosecannon]

Not viable in new content, due to personal loot trading limitations, ie can't trade the new, high ilvl loot (and sets sometimes).

Wouldn't you be able to do it with ML?

Edit: Just to clarify I'm not arguing/disagreeing, just wondering!

[Deleted]

so basically, the bosses are tuned for people not doing multiple splitruns each week and who cant swap entire raid comps on a whim? aka majority of mythic guilds?
sounds like an IDEAL tier.

I hate with passion how some people feel entitled they and they alone should have superhard bosses to bash their heads against 24/7 for weeks with no regards to 99% of mythic guilds who will struggle hard just to keep healthy roster (or just disband) with the burnout of multiple bosses taking a month for a regular guild just to progress.

Amen! Preach on brother!

[Deleted]

Wouldn't you be able to do it with ML?

Edit: Just to clarify I'm not arguing/disagreeing, just wondering!

In that case there would still be Cloth, Plate, Mail loot which nobody could use.

[Loosecannon]

In that case there would still be Cloth, Plate, Mail loot which nobody could use.

Ah yes - makes much more sense then

[Gorsameth]

Wouldn't you be able to do it with ML?

Edit: Just to clarify I'm not arguing/disagreeing, just wondering!

Master loot drops items with the loot table with no regards for your raid composition so you would waste all non-leather armor (hence why you want to try to have atleast 1 main of each armor type).

Personal loot does only give 'equipable items' but you cant trade if its higher lvl. Which defeats the entire point of loot funneling.

Thats why the 'solution' often offered to stopping split raids is to force personal loot everywhere.

[lappee]

so basically, the bosses are tuned for people not doing multiple splitruns each week and who cant swap entire raid comps on a whim? aka majority of mythic guilds?
sounds like an IDEAL tier.

I hate with passion how some people feel entitled they and they alone should have superhard bosses to bash their heads against 24/7 for weeks with no regards to 99% of mythic guilds who will struggle hard just to keep healthy roster (or just disband) with the burnout of multiple bosses taking a month for a regular guild just to progress.

No, they're tuned in for Heroic to Mythic gear (depending on the boss) excluding WF/TF drops, which is the problem. Before we got nerfs on the dungeons the longer the content was out for, now Blizzard relies WF/TF drops for people who can't kill the bosses without them.

So the only thing that has really changed is that people can't get BiS gear anymore and that the races only consist of one or two bosses.

After all Mythic content is made for people who want the challenge, not for people who want to cruise through it.

[Thunderbull]

Why ppl judging raid complexity based on amount of tries for best guild?
Measure time period, may be, when final boss is pwned by 100 guilds.

Not every Bolt's run describes common challenge.

[Warriorsarri]

In terms of time to fully clear (for world first), Antorus is the third hardest tier, ToS being #1 and NH #2, obviously. In terms of Argus himself he's the end boss which took the second most time to kill after the pen-ultimate boss died, with KJ being #1 and Gul'dan being #3.

Speaking in regards to how long a tier should take in the eyes of a top-end raider. I may not have raided for a World First, but I've been in the top scene for years now.
An optimal tier for me would take until the first Sunday/Monday to reach the final boss, and then the final boss dying during the weekend of Week 2. Any longer than that and you start to get issues with people having no more vacation days (in terms on day-time raiding guilds), and if it's any shorter than that, it just feels underwhelming in some regard.

I think Antorus would have been a really good tier, if only the first 10 bosses were tuned to a slightly higher level, or at the very least, made the latter half of the bosses harder. I think most guilds expected either Imonar or Kin'garoth to be the "Gorefiend" of this tier, and it would have made the entire thing feel less underwhelming if there would have been some sort of difficulty curve, rather than the really flat level it was.

[Daevied]

i am like 10 ilvls and 7 traits in average lower than method, and those 10 ilvls are equipped with bis stats difference, so i guess ill take me a couple months to faceroll mythic like them did this week.

Theres nothing wrong for a new tier to be cleared for the top guilds in just 1 or 2 weeks, it is actually good for everyone

[Deleted]

In your example half of bosses are identical. Anomaly x3, Krosus x3, GD x2, and so on.

That's where I'm coming from.

Jesus christ, I was just talking about the difficulty.

[Deleted]

There isn't any subtle plotting behind Argus's difficulty being subpar. Nor is it a f*ck up on Blizzard's side. They were just content with what they designed. If it comes out slightly less hard than the last one then fine, you can't have an Ulduar quality raid every time. As long as Dragon Soul never repeats players are going to be moderately happy.

[Siglius]

so basically, the bosses are tuned for people not doing multiple splitruns each week and who cant swap entire raid comps on a whim? aka majority of mythic guilds?
sounds like an IDEAL tier.

I hate with passion how some people feel entitled they and they alone should have superhard bosses to bash their heads against 24/7 for weeks with no regards to 99% of mythic guilds who will struggle hard just to keep healthy roster (or just disband) with the burnout of multiple bosses taking a month for a regular guild just to progress.

And the worst part is that the people advocating for these "AMAZING HARD BOSSES" and Antorus too ez, aren't even the guys doing mythic anyway.

[Warriorsarri]

As long as Dragon Soul never repeats players are going to be moderately happy.

I may be alone in this, but I'd rate Dragon Soul in my top3 favorit raids of all time.