After Dominating 3 Straight Expansions, is Method the best raiding guild in history?

[Segus1992]

Nihilum/Ensidia still more impressive to me.

They were miles ahead of anyone else, which is cool, all the new races have been very close.

Winning when there's no competition is somehow more impressive?

People seem to have so much hate for Kungen for some reason xD, what'd he do, what I miss? Cant a guy quit WoW after being at the forefront of raiding worldwide from vanilla till WOTLK? xD

I was around for all of Nihilum/Ensidias domination, and it's pretty clear if you look at the videos that absolutely none of that domination is because Kungen is such a great leader or player.

Kind of fitting that someone who thinks Kungen is the greatest would be someone using 'xD' though.

[kingpinuk880]

How is it impressive to have dedication and skill like that? I mean again some will play for way more hours in a day/week than one probably should. They also always have the highest end gear (usually due to multiruns). There are a lot of factors involved which goes back to my original point.

Unless your implying that's it's impressive that they do it quicker than another person? Which you could come up with many examples over.

You sound so bitter and butthurt, wonder why? Just because you cant recognise or understand the notion of excelling and achieving in a certain field, doesn't mean it inst there.

[Shiny212]

Winning when there's no competition is somehow more impressive?


I was around for all of Nihilum/Ensidias domination, and it's pretty clear if you look at the videos that absolutely none of that domination is because Kungen is such a great leader or player.

Kind of fitting that someone who thinks Kungen is the greatest would be someone using 'xD' though.

No competition? Oh I see; since Nihilum was so extremely superior to everyone else you assume no one else was trying. They were, they just didn't have what it took.

You gauged Kungen's leadership from old videos?.. Doesn't seem very likely, and how exactly do you spot this magical excellence in a video? The only thing you spot in WoW gameplay is failure. No one watches a wow pve video and goes "wow look at those skills executing his rotation, "wiiish i could do that", since every fucking one can. You can't watch WoW pve and say "wow nice play", like you do in watching LoL or CS, it's not that kind of game, no matter how much you want to gratify yourself and laud your achievements as borne out of great skill, they're not, they're borne out of time, and time alone.

Him being the leader of the guild that consistently cleared virtually everything first in the world for years isn't proof that maybe he did something right? XDDDDDD (!)

[Gravity2015]

I guess what i dont get is how they have so much free time, do they get paid to play through sponsors or some kind of manager? or do these people work full time jobs as well as raid ?

[Kazlofski]

Still think Paragon was far more impressive, came out of nothing beat top guild, Method only started beating Paragon when Paragon went 10 man.

Not to mention that Garrosh 10HC kill was still one of the most memorable wow kills.

Haha agreed to be honest, their kills were just usually perfection, it's hard to describe but it's like a beautiful dance of brilliance, perfect synchronization all around.

And that solo heal Garrosh 10HC kill, just mind blowing.

[therealbowser]

It's looking like Method is thriving primarily because there isn't really any good competition left.

Not that Method is even remotely bad, but there have been a ton of high end world first progression guilds that have died or given up on world first races in the past few years. Method is among the few that have stayed strong.

I hope we see more competitive guilds in the future, but honestly... that's starting to look less and less likely.

[Eyechewer]

It's looking like Method is thriving primarily because there isn't really any good competition left.

Not that Method is even remotely bad, but there have been a ton of high end world first progression guilds that have died or given up on world first races in the past few years. Method is among the few that have stayed strong.

I hope we see more competitive guilds in the future, but honestly... that's starting to look less and less likely.

At the end of the day it's about money.
I'm no Scrooge McDuck but I get paid relatively very well (engineering position), and there is absolutely no way in hell my boss will let me take 1-2 weeks vacation every 5-6 months or so. There is just no way, specially if work is tight and there are projects to complete. 2 week vacations don't exist in the real world outside holidays.

I would assume most high paying jobs are roughly similar in that respect. Hence, it is not worth it financially to raid at such a high level. Streaming could have been a game changer on that front, and for some people it is, but there is such a competition for views, and so many streamers, that the likelihood of you making it big is pretty low, even more so when you realize that WoW is a 14 year old game, and isn't nearly as popular as other highly streamed games.

So no, we are unlikely to see true competition for Method and Exorsus because the crowd of people that can play at the level, want to play at that level, and have the financial opportunity and freedom to play at that level is so small it is basically non existent.

[Tennis]

They have done what no other guild has, including Paragon Ensidia, Nihilum, etc. Which is continue to be world first for 3 straight expansions.

Their body of work:

Mists of Pandaria

World 1st Will of the Emperor
World 1st Sha of Fear
World 1st Lei Shen
World 1st Garrosh
World 2nd Empress Shekzeer

Warlords of Draenor

World 1st Blackhand
World 1st Archimonde
World 2nd Imperator Margok

Legion

World 1st Helya
World 1st Kil'jaeden
World 1st Argus
World 2nd Xavius
World 3rd Gul'dan

Thoughts?

No Ensidia/Paragon are the best in history. They won when there was actually fierce competition.

[therealbowser]

At the end of the day it's about money.
I'm no Scrooge McDuck but I get paid relatively very well (engineering position), and there is absolutely no way in hell my boss will let me take 1-2 weeks vacation every 5-6 months or so. There is just no way, specially if work is tight and there are projects to complete. 2 week vacations don't exist in the real world outside holidays.

I would assume most high paying jobs are roughly similar in that respect. Hence, it is not worth it financially to raid at such a high level. Streaming could have been a game changer on that front, and for some people it is, but there is such a competition for views, and so many streamers, that the likelihood of you making it big is pretty low, even more so when you realize that WoW is a 14 year old game, and isn't nearly as popular as other highly streamed games.

So no, we are unlikely to see true competition for Method and Exorsus because the crowd of people that can play at the level, want to play at that level, and have the financial opportunity and freedom to play at that level is so small it is basically non existent.

You make a good point. As time goes on, streaming is less and less popular for World of Warcraft, making it harder for entire guilds of players like this to be able to support raiding like this. Still, there are some jobs that could potentially allow that kind of leeway... but they would be the exception, not the rule.

[Segus1992]

No competition? Oh I see; since Nihilum was so extremely superior to everyone else you assume no one else was trying. They were, they just didn't have what it took.

You gauged Kungen's leadership from old videos?.. Doesn't seem very likely, and how exactly do you spot this magical excellence in a video? The only thing you spot in WoW gameplay is failure. No one watches a wow pve video and goes "wow look at those skills executing his rotation, "wiiish i could do that", since every fucking one can. You can't watch WoW pve and say "wow nice play", like you do in watching LoL or CS, it's not that kind of game, no matter how much you want to gratify yourself and laud your achievements as borne out of great skill, they're not, they're borne out of time, and time alone.

Him being the leader of the guild that consistently cleared virtually everything first in the world for years isn't proof that maybe he did something right? XDDDDDD (!)

So you think they were just utterly superior to the competition rather than the more logical assumption of there not being enough competition. Cute, I guess.

I mean, especially when you seem to think there's no skill involved in PvE. How then did Nihilum/Ensidia "dominate"? Do you think they were the only ~50 people that were willing to put that much time into the game?

I'm not talking about rotations, I'm talking about Kungen "leading" through raid warnings. Yes being a tank was faceroll in raids in Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath - doesn't mean all tanks who raided sucked though.

[RoKPaNda]

no they are not.. majority of top players quit the game(majority of players in general quit the game lol).. hell even alot of old method players quit.. i think Method now have 3 players that are playing in Method since Wrath. I think out of 20 raiders they usually have like 15 of them playing with them since WoD.. and only like 5 of them were actually raiding in top guilds back in the days.. Method merged with Envy and then merged with Rapid Eye Movement but majority of the players they've merged with quit too

for example i think only a couple of players from Paragon are still raiding in top20 guilds..

i doubt that alot(if any) of ppl from FTH or Ensidia are still raiding

You obviously didn't process what I wrote. It doesn't matter if they've only been in Method for an expansion or two, prior to that they were in a different hardcore guild. Just because you've lost track of prior Method/Ensidia/Etc members doesn't mean that they're not still raiding on other characters in other guilds. The Mythic raiding core is pretty solid and is almost definitely the most stable group of players as far as staying subbed. You'd be surprised how often in the Mythic raiding community I find out that Random_Mage_500 is someone that I raided with 6+ years ago.

[krl]

Their level of professionalism is unparalleled.

Techniques have been refined, raid mechanics have been refined, pre-raid preparation goes further than ever. There are a lot less amateur contenders, but that doesn't impact WF guilds made of pro/semipro gamers.
The "hero of the past" achievements were in a different settings, against far less organized competition. That's like comparing Federer and McEnroe.

It's the same in all the competitive settings in obsolete games, which WoW is. Current>past.

[Alphatorg]

Not going to argue with who is best, but Paragon is the guild that impressed me most - getting lots of world firsts while recruiting from a pool that's half the size of Moscow.

[Teaon]

Paragons fought against lions and tigers, yet came on top 1#

Method today has no competition, not saying they are bad, but they are definitely not the best

[Hctaz]

That fluba analogy only worked if the total number was like, 2-3. But here you're saying that it's not impressive to be top out of ~20, because 18 of the 20 are much worse than the others?

It really seems like you're saying that being that far ahead of the pack is not impressive.

The raid was tuned poorly. That's all it came down to this time. It was tuned so that the first 10 bosses were about as difficult as Mythic EN, and then Argus was up top in between Guldan and KJ. That's horrible tuning. Basically, Method would have cleared day 1 if Argus hadn't been a roadblock. There wouldn't have been 20 guilds on Argus because there would have been TWO. Method and Exorsus.

[Aggrophobic]

Super Hardcore Raiding is just a dying thing, there is no competition anymore, it's just them and Exorsus. I mean... how prestigious is being the worlds best Fluba player if only two people IN the world play the Fluba.

That is just not true.
They actually have more skilled competition now.

[schwarzkopf]

Hard to tell if best, but we can be sure they are the most committed.

[pateuvasiliu]

Classic WoW means little because the raids had simpler/fewer mechanics.

Yeah now you have 3 fires to stay out of instead of two, amazing.

Classic was far harder, shown by how few ever got to AQ or Naxx.

You think mechanics make the game harder, when mechanics are just a script you need to follow in a play. Getting 40 people on the same page, having the right gear and consumes and being able to replace key players if they quit the game-- unlike today where every class has the same role and brings nothing unique-- that was difficulty.

[alturic]

Classic was far harder, shown by how few ever got to AQ or Naxx.

You think mechanics make the game harder, when mechanics are just a script you need to follow in a play. Getting 40 people on the same page, having the right gear and consumes and being able to replace key players if they quit the game-- unlike today where every class has the same role and brings nothing unique-- that was difficulty.

Can't wait for the comments about "it wasn't harder, it was super simple compared to today. it was 'harder' because people didn't know how to play the game". Cracks me up everytime.

[pateuvasiliu]

Can't wait for the comments about "it wasn't harder, it was super simple compared to today. it was 'harder' because people didn't know how to play the game". Cracks me up everytime.

I mean, that's true. I played on <snip> or almost a year and I am confident that my gameplay is at the same level that people in Nihilium had back then. The gameplay itself isn't hard, it isn't complex, but your reflexes must be on point and you work a lot to raid.