Nonviable specs. Which are they?

[Nomads]

And you lost all credibility when you start out with the insulting others calling them children because they have a differing opinion to you..

I called them children because they don't have the cognitive abilities of a rational thinking adult. Not because they disagreed with me. If you bothered to read the thread, you would see they're making the same baseless arguments over and over again, despite being refuted time and time again. Opinions can't contradict facts or they become simple ignorance. That's what is happening here.

[Deleted]

I called them children because they don't have the cognitive abilities of a rational thinking adult. Not because they disagreed with me. If you bothered to read the thread, you would see they're making the same baseless arguments over and over again, despite being refuted time and time again. Opinions can't contradict facts or they become simple ignorance. That's what is happening here.

Or maybe becouse the focus of people is raiding not levelling or pvp (pvp in 2017 kappa)

[Specialka]

I called them children because they don't have the cognitive abilities of a rational thinking adult. Not because they disagreed with me. If you bothered to read the thread, you would see they're making the same baseless arguments over and over again, despite being refuted time and time again. Opinions can't contradict facts or they become simple ignorance. That's what is happening here.

The funny thing is all you have are opinionsss while others have facts, and you call them out about their cognitive capacities?

And even at vanilla, most ppl would focus on dungeons or raids even if they could not do it on a regular basis since it was there you would get the best items.

[Nomads]

The funny thing is all you have are opinionsss while others have facts, and you call them out about their cognitive capacities?

And even at vanilla, most ppl would focus on dungeons or raids even if they could not do it on a regular basis since it was there you would get the best items.

Show me where I expresssed my opinion at any point in this thread. Go on. Try.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

If it were a 2018 world first race the only viable specs would be fury and rogues. Luckily classic plays a bit easier and there are dozens of buffs you can acquire to make up for your specs lack of damage.

[Specialka]

Show me where I expresssed my opinion at any point in this thread. Go on. Try.

Well, you called a lot of ppl children because they disagree with YOUR opinion of WOw Vanilla

[jellmoo]

Define viable. Group composition was different back then. If you needed more DPS you would never take a Feral over a Rogue, but if you also needed additional spot healing the argument could be made. Warriors were the only main tank, but you could use a Pally, Ferel or even a Shaman to fill the off tank role (occasionally Rogues too).

The roles were more fluid, which was the basis of class design. Hybrids would bring other tools to the group to offset their lower DPS.

The flip side is there were classes you would never stack. Warlocks and Shadow Priests, for example.

[Nomads]

Well, you called a lot of ppl children because they disagree with YOUR opinion of WOw Vanilla

Once again, that's not why I called them children. Did you get it this time? Also, viablity of specs is not an opinion. It is a fact of game mechanics.

[Chaelexi]

For raiding for most of vanilla:

Top tier hybrid specs
* Restoration (Druid)
* Holy (Paladin)
* Disc/Holy (Priest)
* Restoration (Shaman)
* Arms/Fury (Warrior)
* Protection (Warrior)

Viable hybrid specs
* Feral (Druid)
* Shadow (Priest)

Crap hybrid specs
* Balance (Druid)
* Protection (Paladin)
* Retribution (Paladin)
* Elemental (Shaman)
* Enhancement (Shaman)

Top tier hybrid specs
* Restoration (Druid)
* Holy (Paladin)
* Disc/Holy (Priest)
* Restoration (Shaman)
* Arms/Fury (Warrior)
* Protection (Warrior)

Viable hybrid specs
* Feral (Druid) - Viable is pushing it, they did worse DPS than Warriors and Rogues in melee and were worse tanks than a Warrior
* Shadow (Priest) - Did less damage than a Warlock and only provided a buff to themselves and warlocks and warlocks were only brought to provide COE and COR

Crap hybrid specs
* Balance (Druid)
* Protection (Paladin) They were brought but brought as a healer to provide a Blessing of Kings and Imp Conc Aura
* Retribution (Paladin)
* Elemental (Shaman)
* Enhancement (Shaman)
Crap Pure DPS Specs
Destruction Warlock - All specs took up to Ruin but Warlock were only brought to progression raiding to bring Curse of Elements and Curse of Recklessness to buff the melee
Demo Warlock - Only really here as a LOL 1V1 monster, no raiding
Survival Hunter - LOL Melee Hunter with the weakest end tier talent, or a Crappy CC that still did less damage than Marks. Marks was brought because they were the best at pulling trash and splitting packs
BM Hunter - A bunch of talents to buff a pet that did almost nothing unless you were using a bugged pet that was an exploit
Arcane Mage - Only for PVP as POM/Pyro

[Specialka]

Once again, that's not why I called them children. Did you get it this time? Also, viablity of specs is not an opinion. It is a fact of game mechanics.

And nope, again, you are wrong.

[urasim]

They werent garbage. What you retail children cant seem to grasp is that every spec is not supposed to be good in every situation. Period. You do BM for leveling and solo play. You do marksmen for group content. You do survival for PvP.

They were garbage. Did you even bother reading what they wrote? When was elemental ever good in RAIDING in classic? NEVER. Everything you said is moot because you didn't even reading the chain of comments. Context is important and you completely ignored it.

"Retail children" how is that an insult in your mind? I'd think private server wannabe classic player is FAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR worse. I'd imagine you said it out of jealously.

[sjuk]

Before being able to answer, there is two main questions :

1) What MEANS "viable" ? What is the criterium ? Is it about being able to do a job period, or is it max performance in comparison of another spec ?

2) In WHICH CONTEXT are you speaking ? 40-man raiding ? 20-man raiding ? Dungeons ? Leveling ? PvP ?

Because yeah, Vanilla was much more varied in its approach, and some spec were pretty bad at one thing and pretty good at another.

This is why i love vanilla cause it was so situational and could only be done with very specific counters and it was much more complicated thanks to that and had more meaning being specced into a certain talent and feelibg you contributed on that specific matter.

[melzas]

Once again, that's not why I called them children. Did you get it this time? Also, viablity of specs is not an opinion. It is a fact of game mechanics.

Actually viability is an opinion unless it's mathematically not possibile to kill a raid boss while having X spec in your raid group. I'm sure you can kill any raid boss in vanilla while having 1 of each spec you conisder not viable in your group.

The word you are looking for is "optimal".

[Deleted]

Any Druid spec that is not healer

Any Paladin spec that is not healer

Any Priest spec that is not healer

Any Shaman spec that is not healer


Warlocks were pretty bad at everything besides banish from what I remember.



Basically want Warrior tanks, frost mages (fire was only a thing with rolling ignites in naxx), combat rogues, hunters, arms warrior and healers. Paladins were the best healers I am pretty sure, did not have to worry about mana much.

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i played mm hunter from mc to aq40 (so no naxx sadly) and on single target fights our hunters came right behind the rogues in the damage meters. But i think that was mainly because we had no fury warriors and our mages were bad as hell. so mm hunters were ok dps wise but boring as hell to play

fury warriors were very niche, arms was better usually.

I mean if we are honest the only good specs in vanilla for raiding are

prot warrior

heal priest
heal druid
heal shaman/pala

Priest and Paladin were good tank healers. Shaman was a raid healer.

As for DPS

1. Combat Dagger Rogue
2. Mortal Strike Warrior
3. frost mage / Aimed/Multishot Hunter
..
..
'Affliction' Warlock

late in vanilla Fire Mages were good thanks to rolling ignites in Naxx. I did not play a Mage myself so not entirely sure what prompted that, probably talent patches.

Fury Warrior was niche and none of our top warriors seriously played dual wield. Not to say it was bad but simply a bit worse than Arms at least on Horde.

Keep in mind my opinion on Warriors comes from being Raidleader on Horde side. Without Windfury Warriors are probably a lot worse.

And Mages might be better on Alliance side with Paladin buffs.

[Daggot Ur]

There were specs back then just not like they are seen as now..

https://izco.wordpress.com/viable-sp...-wows-history/

These are not specs - these are roles that classes could perform. Switch off current mentality. If I had all my talents in say fury tree as a warrior I could still tank cause I would have stance, taunt, shield block. Same as I would have all my heals as shaman if I had all talents in enhancement.

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It's implied that, for example, a warrior putting most of his points in arms is an arms-warrior, not a "any warrior". Yes, you could off-tank in other specs if the mobs weren't too strong, but the talents were extremely important. There was more cookie-cutter specs back then, and you had better play the right class/spec combo if you wanted a spot in the raid.

But nowadays when people talk about specs they understand current game design. If you choose arms - you don’t get taunt. Back then you would have all your spells there. Even shield wall was available to you if you had all talents in arms tree. And you can get def cap without the talent - it would require bettet gear. Yes you were an arms warrior, but it didn’t mean you were not able to tank at all. We had fury warrior MTing Ony because he was better at holding her everdropping agro - he had all the tools (sunder and shield block I am looking at you) to tank her.

[Lollis]

Basically want Warrior tanks, frost mages (fire was only a thing with rolling ignites in naxx), combat rogues, hunters, arms warrior and healers. Paladins were the best healers I am pretty sure, did not have to worry about mana much.

late in vanilla Fire Mages were good thanks to rolling ignites in Naxx. I did not play a Mage myself so not entirely sure what prompted that, probably talent patches.

And Mages might be better on Alliance side with Paladin buffs.

Fire was king over Frost after BWL because of the immunities that prevented it from being used.

Tier 1 & 2:

Frost Mage

2.5 and Onwards:

Fire Mages


I played Combat Daggers in BWL and AQ before I changed my main to a Mage. Rogues were consistently top DPS while our fury warrior and the best MM Hunter were usually up there with us alongside the best two Mages at the time. Warlocks were not too far behind, and even topped meters on certain bosses but that was relatively rare.

Meters usually went something similar to this for us:

Best Rogue (Combat Swords)
Next Best Rogue (Combat/Assa Daggers)
Best Mages/Other Rogues/Fury Warrior/MM Hunter
Best Warlocks
Other Mages
Other Warlocks
Other Classes

This was a guild constantly fighting for server first and second kills. We were doing something right.

In AQ and Naxx, the mages all went up. Usually mages topped meters.

We had fury warrior MTing Ony because he was better at holding her everdropping agro - he had all the tools (sunder and shield block I am looking at you) to tank her.

You mean he was stance dancing to break fears with Berserker Rage.

[Daggot Ur]

They were garbage. Did you even bother reading what they wrote? When was elemental ever good in RAIDING in classic? NEVER. Everything you said is moot because you didn't even reading the chain of comments. Context is important and you completely ignored it.

"Retail children" how is that an insult in your mind? I'd think private server wannabe classic player is FAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR worse. I'd imagine you said it out of jealously.

Elemental was not viable in raiding because it was not made for raiding. Elemental was destroying faces in PVP though. And that was true for other specs like shadow/balance/surv/subtlety.

[Daggot Ur]

You mean he was stance dancing to break fears with Berserker Rage.

No I mean he was dps war with most talents in fury and was using prot gear to tank her.

[Lollis]

Elemental was not viable in raiding because it was not made for raiding. Elemental was destroying faces in PVP though. And that was true for other specs like shadow/balance/surv/subtlety.

20k Chain lightning experiments in Warsong Gulch were fun to watch, would have been more fun if I was on the Shaman's faction.

[Suru]

There were NO specs in vanilla. That’s the bain of retail wow. Every class had a set of abilities to do everything they were supposed to, for example shaman could cast damage spell,swing in melee, heal. Talent trees only enhanced one of those tasks that shaman chose to perform.

Stop applying retail mentality to classic. It was built differently. All classes were good. Not all roles were designed for pve or pvp.

Really spec was a more appropriate term back in vanilla. You had access to everything but SPECialized in a certain tree. Now it is more than just a specialization, it is the entirety of what you are while "specced" into it.