Rift goes P2W in a paid expansion - Boycott the new caches and packs

[Kagdar]

Life is pay2win

The Ferrari owner can get from London to Edinburgh a lot faster than the Skoda owner.

If people are willing to spend a bit extra to jump the queue then businesses are going to exploit that. And they have every right to do so.

Life isn't a race. P2W elements would be like having a Skoda only race and 1 dude pay extra so he can bring a Ferrari in the race.

[Kyanion]

It's not removing it that annoyed me. It's that the CM tried to defend it by basically advertising a game they publish. Just to run you through the content post 4.0.

4.1. 4 boss 10 man raid which was LFR mode only, 10 man upscale of an already existing raid, Eternal Weapon quests which had you mindlessly grinding the same content and an upscale of an NMT Dungeon.

4.2. A new zone that should have been in for launch and was not available for going on 8 months from launch, four new paid souls that should have been done a year or so ago for Primalist, that 4 boss raid from 4.1 got a Normal mode and other minor stuff. So basically this patch had content in that should have been available 8+ months ago.

4.3. A 3 boss 10 man raid and a new paid soul for Mage that is getting really negative receptions due to it's awful mechanics. And no I'm not joking. This is the content for 4.3.

Funny thing was that this expansion was also £34.99 or $40 on launch. Yes they want back to B2P initially and it went back to F2P in not even a year.

Oh yeah I didn't mean to gloss over that. Having people in their company come out and say "Yeah go play one of our OTHER games if you don't like that we removed PvP content in this game" is beyond pathetic.

I mean I still remember my outrage at the new class souls, the earring slot and now the practices they are putting out now. Everything they've done has just reinforced my choice to never come back to this game. I liked it okay when it first came out and left because of some balance changes I disagreed with (basically gutting my soul and changing its whole philosophy). I came back once to see how it was and I noticed how much it had changed. Now I just keep up with it every now and then to see if it is worth coming back to, but after reading how Trion changed their story on not having these types of elements in the game...yeah no. Never coming back to anything they touch.

[Eleccybubb]

Oh yeah I didn't mean to gloss over that. Having people in their company come out and say "Yeah go play one of our OTHER games if you don't like that we removed PvP content in this game" is beyond pathetic.

I mean I still remember my outrage at the new class souls, the earring slot and now the practices they are putting out now. Everything they've done has just reinforced my choice to never come back to this game. I liked it okay when it first came out and left because of some balance changes I disagreed with (basically gutting my soul and changing its whole philosophy). I came back once to see how it was and I noticed how much it had changed. Now I just keep up with it every now and then to see if it is worth coming back to, but after reading how Trion changed their story on not having these types of elements in the game...yeah no. Never coming back to anything they touch.

I genuinely didn't mind them at first. But then it got out of hand and we had certain situations where paid ones like Arbiter were disgustingly OP for a while. Although considering there is next to no class balance anymore I have zero clue what is OP and what isn't.

Earring slot though for sure. Grind 50k void stones or throw down your money was just sickening. And Void Stone grinding in NMT was horrid.

[hulkgor]

It's not that specific detail that bothers me mate. I just want to know why they did it. As someone who enjoys games as a heavy hobby it's just painful to see.

You said it yourself in the first post. It's them trying to milk the last dollars they can out of whales.

[Eleccybubb]

You said it yourself in the first post. It's them trying to milk the last dollars they can out of whales.

I meant deep reasoning. I want to get to the core of what made them change to do this. Sure milking is the big reason but I want to know what was going on in their mindset. The game was still doing pretty well at that point too.

[Edge-]

Alright everyone, let's take a few steps back and deeps breaths and chill. I get this is a topic folks care about, but please remain respectful when posting, regardless of what you think about another poster or their opinion. Friendly warning now, if folks can't abide by rules and keep their posts on-topic and respectful infractions will start going out, and nobody wants that : (

[Selah]

Back to this topic. Sorry I've actually been playing the game you guys hate so much and are boycotting so I haven't really been paying attention to the garbage that's been posted here. Anyways, time to reply.

This was a cute comment. It reminds me of a conversation I had with my four year old the other day. She asked me for chocolate right after she was done eating, problem was it was 8 in the morning. I told her no, she stomped her feet, crossed her arms, and said "you don't love me." I then had to explain to her that it's actually because I love her that I told her no. Likewise, you seem to be lacking the understanding my daughter did. We don't hate the game, frustrated and disappointed for sure but we don't hate the game. We're criticizing it and harsh with it and the dev team because we actually love the game. If we hated it, all we'd have to do is shut up and leave it alone. Left to their own devices, the devs will sink this game on their own without help. You can easily see this when you look at the quality, scale, and ambition of the game from the original launch to now. A clear downward trend.

Actually Lythelia they don't owe you or any other player any answers at all. They answer to their stockholders not their player base who are bitching of an "unfair advantage" for someone to pay for something that other players have to raid for but are still able to get for free.

You 100% sure about that? Seems to me that the team should be far more concerned with the opinions of the people that could potentially be giving them money versus the people who're they're indebted to who have no opinion about the game and only care about if they get their money back. Quick little fyi, good customer service will always be a wise investment that will pay off.

There are builds that allow for solo play that aren't making the mage a glass cannon. Just because you don't like those builds does not mean they weren't around or available.

Tell that to the dev team. They're the ones who pushed that soul for that reason, not me. I'm just using their actions and reasons for those actions as a way to build my case. One you seem to actually have no argument against.

Seriously have you ever played any other MMO other than Rift? Games do this crap all the time!

Yes, actually, quite the variety. WoW, Rift, AA, Tera, ESO, GW2, The Crew, DCUO, EVE, SWtoR, Conan, Aion, FF14.

Care to elaborate on which point or points you're talking about? I made a few, it'd be helpful if you could be more precise in your comments.

Its natural to make comparisons to other games when discussing one. You guys have made comparisons already to Battlefront II but don't like when other people bring up other games to show how Rift compares to other games.

Context tend to be important, especially when you're inserting yourself into a conversation. We were talking about ToS violations as held by Blizzard, not Trion. Blizzard's ToS are different from that of Trion. So it's pointless to point to Blizzard unless you're wanting to have a conversation about ToS held by Trion comparatively to Blizzard, which Slipmat wasn't, he was trying to make some half-witted point about how Blizzards ToS would make Rift's payment system against the ToS. Really a nonsensical argument.

What this really boils down to is I think all of you I quoted (with the exception of Slipmat) are just a bunch of crybabies who aren't even patrons or players who don't/haven't spent any real money to support the game they are playing for free yet criticize for trying to earn some money. This is one way the company has decided to earn some money and you all either can't afford it so you QQ about it being available or you're just jealous that others might be able to actually get caught up so they can play the game still with friends/guildmates. Maybe if you opened YOUR wallets and contributed some of YOUR money to the game you're playing, you might find Trion wouldn't have to offer such things to bring in some money for themselves which caused all of you to QQ in the first place. Yes, this is a F2P game but they still have operations costs to pay out in order to keep you guys able to play their game. The F2P model is a way for a company to offer their game to more people so they have a larger audience to potentially earn money from in the form of microtransactions. I happen to enjoy this game & have spent MY own money to help support it through the years when I played it. I believe you should at least pay out the $15 a month to help them keep the game running if you decide to play it. I always have done these sorts of things with every F2P game I've played. I've even forked out my money for ingame credits to buy various things too. Last night I paid $30 just so I could have enough credits to buy my rogue some leveling gear & for a REX to get some gold to spend on ingame items on the auction house. When's the last time any of YOU have paid out even one cent to Trion for anything?

This is the gold of your long winded rant though. A genuine pleasure to read. You seem to be working on the misguided framework that we haven't paid Trion for their hard work. That they've somehow been working for free for all of these years and we're just ungrateful. I want to show you something.
[IMG][/IMG]
This is my personal purchase history for Rift. You see in the corner where it says 588 results? Yeah, I've given money to Trion, and plenty of it. The same can be said for most of the posters on these forums. Just because you don't like what we have to say or because someone is boycotting doesn't mean Trion hasn't been paid. It'd be a pretty useless boycott if there wasn't any loss in profits for Trion, wouldn't it? Not that I'm particularly vocally supporting the boycott.

You're a lot like other posters who are defending this. You're so dedicated to the game that you're unwilling to criticize the game when and where it needs it. In doing so, you're causing incredible amounts of damage to the game and enabling the dev team to continue to ruin this once great game.

[Trollhammer]

Let me throw this hypothetical question at you then, suppose i keep buying WoW tokens for real money, selling them for gold and build up a large amount of gold, then pay off high level Guilds to run me through the latest WoW raid, say, Heroic as Mythic is still too 'new'

I get different Guilds to keep running me through Heroic to bypass weekly lockouts and soon i'm in full heroic gear, would you call that P2W?

In this case you could just pay said guild direct with cash..

[StrawberryZebra]

Again I sound like a broken record but nobody is forcing you to do anything here. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you don't like the lootboxes or can't afford it or don't want it, don't buy it. It really is that simple. Nobody is saying "oh you have to buy 4 lootboxes a week in order to continue to play the game or your account will permanently be banned". Nope, they aren't. They are simply offering these things to people who want them. Maybe I could recommend THIS GAME to you instead of Rift since you obviously don't like Rift anymore.

And again, you've missed the point. Intentionally or otherwise.

I WANT to be able to spend money on Rift. Really, I do. The problem is Trion offer nothing I want for the price range I feel is right. The price of the new callings, Packs and so on far exceeds the value I'd get from them. By chasing after the Whales, they've excluded me from the Rift store.

By constantly adding new souls as complete packs for all callings, they've stopped me from spending money to get just the ones I want. (The Mage souls, if you're curious. I do enjoy playing Warlock through all its ups and downs.) By charging more for less content, they've made me seriously question the value proposition of anything I do buy from the store.

They've sent the message loud and clear that they do not want, nor deserve, my money. That's fine, I'll spend it somewhere else.

Again I'm a broken record, businesses change their products all the time to suit their consumer's needs.

So far, Rift has been;

• Buy to play with a subscription
• Completely free to play
• Gone back to a buy to play model for the Starfall Prophecy expansion. Or Prophecy of Ahnket. Whatever
• Gone back to a free to play

As a customer, that worries me. The game I invest in today might be turned on it's head again tomorrow. They've gone through so many different business models in such a short space of time that I find it hard to trust Trion.

One clear pattern does emerge though, they're moving towards whatever they think will offer up the most profits rather than what is in the best interests of the game and it's players. From a purely business point of view that makes complete sense. As a consumer, it makes me feel as though Trion see me as nothing more than the sum of money they can extract from me.

You know, I'm sorry you haven't learned how to read longer bits of information. I'll keep it short for you this time. You = crybaby QQ'ing over something other people can get that you want. Trion = trying to make money by offering what playes who are not a vocal minority want. Me = going back to playing the game because you're not worth my time Kyanion.

Generally speaking, getting your point across in as few words as possible is prefered. "Brevity is the Soul of wit", afterall.

[Hellrime]

So with the current Rift playerbase they stand to net, what? Like $250?

[Eleccybubb]

So they removed the Intel but the Dragons Hoard pack is still in the game apparently?

Anyone with it installed wanna confirm that because I really don't want to reinstall it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rift/commen..._jim_sterling/

Scroll to the bottom and people are saying the Hoard pack is still in.

[Munchmatoast]

Still active. Game still p2w. And i agree with darkdaemon & friends.

[Frozenbeef]

How Trion sees its players-

[gaymer77]

So they removed the Intel but the Dragons Hoard pack is still in the game apparently?

Anyone with it installed wanna confirm that because I really don't want to reinstall it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rift/commen..._jim_sterling/

Scroll to the bottom and people are saying the Hoard pack is still in.

If you don't even have the damn game install WTF does it matter what they do? Its not like you are playing it or in any way affected by it.

[Eleccybubb]

Still active. Game still p2w. And i agree with darkdaemon & friends.

So basically they remove the caches but not the disgustingly priced Hoard pack?

Just haven't got it installed since I re-installed Windows 10. Doubt I will though to be honest.

All I really have installed right now is Chrome, WoW, FF14, Cuphead and Discord. Too lazy to reinstall my entire Steam Library

[DSRilk]

Wow is stil the best mmo in the market, every other mmo has microtransactions that benefit you highly in gameplay, honestly i think wow will have a resurgence, the formula cant be beat

Neither GW2 nor ESO have microtransactions that benefit you at all. I think there's a minor xp % boost, but I hardly consider that an issue. Additionally, while I like WoW, I think the story and betweeen-expansion content in both GW2 and ESO are bounds ahead of what WoW offers.

As to Rift going P2W, I can certainly see the argument that it's not fair - and it's supposed to be a game - an escape from real life, so I ignore comments like Woowhatever. Anyway, that said, getting some people who can and will pay a lot to support the game allows it to keep going. This is especially true of games near the end of their life cycle. I enjoyed Rift back in the day. I even tried to go back to it last month. The UI, skills, and everything had changed so much though, that I felt too lost to stick around more than an hour. Oh well.

[Eleccybubb]

Neither GW2 nor ESO have microtransactions that benefit you at all. I think there's a minor xp % boost, but I hardly consider that an issue. Additionally, while I like WoW, I think the story and betweeen-expansion content in both GW2 and ESO are bounds ahead of what WoW offers.

As to Rift going P2W, I can certainly see the argument that it's not fair - and it's supposed to be a game - an escape from real life, so I ignore comments like Woowhatever. Anyway, that said, getting some people who can and will pay a lot to support the game allows it to keep going. This is especially true of games near the end of their life cycle. I enjoyed Rift back in the day. I even tried to go back to it last month. The UI, skills, and everything had changed so much though, that I felt too lost to stick around more than an hour. Oh well.

The thing is while you say they keep the lights on this whole "this is fine keep throwing it my way" attitude is part of the reason the game itself is suffering. (Not you saying it by the way)

Just look at 4.0-4.3 and compare it to anything before Nightmare Tide. Look at the huge difference in quality between the 2 games. It's shocking.

Supporting a game is one thing. But when people are saying that this thing they did wasn't P2W or that 100 dollars for a single mount is ok then that goes beyond the borders of supporting and into blind fanaticism.

[arandomuser]

Neither GW2 nor ESO have microtransactions that benefit you at all. I think there's a minor xp % boost, but I hardly consider that an issue. Additionally, while I like WoW, I think the story and betweeen-expansion content in both GW2 and ESO are bounds ahead of what WoW offers.

As to Rift going P2W, I can certainly see the argument that it's not fair - and it's supposed to be a game - an escape from real life, so I ignore comments like Woowhatever. Anyway, that said, getting some people who can and will pay a lot to support the game allows it to keep going. This is especially true of games near the end of their life cycle. I enjoyed Rift back in the day. I even tried to go back to it last month. The UI, skills, and everything had changed so much though, that I felt too lost to stick around more than an hour. Oh well.

LOL yes they do, i remember in gw you can get PVE buffs that work outside instances for real money, and in ESO i remember you could buy stuff to improve crafting

[DSRilk]

LOL yes they do, i remember in gw you can get PVE buffs that work outside instances for real money, and in ESO i remember you could buy stuff to improve crafting

Check again. GW2 has some XP boosters - who cares - and some eternal harvesting tools so that I don't have to spend a few silver every now and then. ESO has the ability to increase your riding speed and research speed (by a very minor amount), neither of which are important to game "progression," neither of which allows you to go above what a non-purchaser can get, and neither of which can't be earned simply by logging in each day. They're both pretty worthless. I mean, if you want to "get ahead" of someone who logs in more often than you... go for it.

[Edge-]

If you don't even have the damn game install WTF does it matter what they do? Its not like you are playing it or in any way affected by it.

Some of us still care about the game and want to see it return to how amazing it, and Trion as a developer, was back in its heyday? We don't want to see the continued decline that the game has been in since NT : /

Because it reflects poorly on F2P models and the MMO industry overall, an industry that a lot of us care about and don't want to see continue to get a bad rep.