Net neutrality gone

[Spiral Mage]

I don't normally rely on Anonymous, but I'm starting to think that Anonymous may be our best bet if Congress is under the ISP's bankroll as well.

We don't need help from script kids who really don't have any idea what they're doing.
We, the people, need to come together and defy the rogue state of our government and make it clear we're not going to let them tell us how our lives are going to go. I admit though, I'm really not sure how to do that exactly. They keep saying "Keep it civil, don't get violent" but how do we get our point across otherwise, in a way that actually works?

[RobertoCarlos]

We don't need help from script kids who really don't have any idea what they're doing.
We, the people, need to come together and defy the rogue state of our government and make it clear we're not going to let them tell us how our lives are going to go. I admit though, I'm really not sure how to do that exactly. They keep saying "Keep it civil, don't get violent" but how do we get our point across otherwise, in a way that actually works?

Go the long game and bring them down from within.

begin lawyer training and get a job at comcast then climb the ranks to eventually get promoted above and head the FCC, then once you are in power and trusted bring it all crashing down with public hearings and name and shame galore.

Begin training now padawan, you're our last hope

[PC2]

We don't need help from script kids who really don't have any idea what they're doing.
We, the people, need to come together and defy the rogue state of our government and make it clear we're not going to let them tell us how our lives are going to go. I admit though, I'm really not sure how to do that exactly. They keep saying "Keep it civil, don't get violent" but how do we get our point across otherwise, in a way that actually works?

Run candidates for office who are committed to regulating the internet.

The fact that you even bring up violence in an internet protocol debate is very strange.

[shimerra]

You're really into butt stuff aren't you. Neither Comcast or Verizon have the power to prevent a competitor installing new infrastructure, and offering services to their client base. Local politicians on the other hand do have the ability to reject licensure and permits to do so, but yeah, let's expect those same politicians to save us. They care.

Dude seriously, you're an idiot. They literally did exactly that to Google. Mother fucking google. And tiny brained fuckwits like you think they can't do it?

My god its worth the ban to say just how damn stupid you are despite very simple concepts and simply spew back simple terms you don't even understand like free market and competition!

Fully agree.

The politicians from both parties screw the people up and down and left and right- then in November- the people run out and vote for the same two parties that have been screwing them for decades (centuries even) and -the best part is- they run out and vote with enthusiasm, fully invested.

Then the same people that keep these loser parties in power lament that nothing ever changes.... (gee, I wonder why?)

It is long time for them to go.

If you have any doubts that these parties are junk and keep giving us $hit, just look at their candidates (on both sides) from the last election and that is all the proof you need.

Instead of getting better- improving and evolving, these two parties are steadily getting worst by the minute. Who in their right mind would vote for that?

Nothing will change until we toss them both.

While I agree more parties is better than the two party stupidity we got(that conservatives will never get rid of because it's 90% of what gives them power in Ameriica), I will never subscribed to your abject stupidity and false equivalence.

You're the exact problem you claim to want to fix and your attempts at a solution are basically shout and scream with no real answers to the problem in the short term. You see no nuance which allows you to solve the issue, you feel around like a blind mind knowing vaguely that there is one but that's about it.

Infracted - Minor Flaming

[khazmodan]

Go the long game and bring them down from within.

begin lawyer training and get a job at comcast then climb the ranks to eventually get promoted above and head the FCC, then once you are in power and trusted bring it all crashing down with public hearings and name and shame galore.

Begin training now padawan, you're our last hope

<<<<snip>>>>

Infracted - Minor Spam

[Torrasque]

Y'all are worried about the ISP's when the FCC has said they will still be regulating and monitoring them. Meanwhile, actual content aggregation and how/what content is being highlighted/accepted is being manipulated or scrubbed. "but muh netflix speeds bruh!"

Google manipulating results in search: http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-w...results-2015-6

Youtube (part of google) censoring content: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yo...rticle/2604384

Google had requested utility status: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-goo...-be-a-utility/

I don't want internet or internet content providers to have the protection of the government to do as they please without regulation and competition. The fact that all of this is and was happening during NN speaks volumes.

Also, don't forget that googles AI is incapable of deciphering what real news is. Popularity of an article is literally one of the first categories the algorithm follows. Hence why reddit troll articles were continually popping up. Also, there is a decidedly bias tint to Google, Facebook, YouTube.. and a host of other sites. Stunt and clickbait sites like Verge, salon etc.. rely on net neutrality so they can get the same space and influence as more legit sites. The proliferation of internet content that serves no objective other than to confuse and obfuscate information and then claim freedom to do so, while enjoying the "free and uncapped internet" is disgusting. Regardless of what side it falls on or from. All of this has been happening DURING NN. These things are far more pernicious and destructive than the potential for ISPs to make fast lanes.

Title II doesn't regulate content creators because they wouldn't be service providers, which the primary implementation for Title II was because ISPs found a loophole in Title I a few months prior and used it to evade the law. Therefore, it is obviously that it wouldn't fall under Title II's jurisdiction of Net Neutrality.

[kamuimac]

That's a bit melodramatic man. Go outside, the sun is shining, your belly is full, and you've a lot to be thankful for. If you've people you love in your life, spend time with them. There are more important things in the world than hanging out on the forums with me arguing about abstracts.

well ofc that you can lie to yourself and live in blissfull ignorance.

most of society do that so its natural that a lot of people treat it as something normal - but then not everybody wants to spend their live as slave on short leash of corporates and bank loan.

on the other hand its nothing new - it was pretty common occurance in ancient rome and greece that free people were putting themselves into slaver because it was easier then struggling everyday for food and roof over your head- why should now be any different.

poeple live their "illusion of freedom" - as long as they can eat (stores fully supplied with food) , sleep (they have roof over their head thanks to 20-30 years bank loans ) and f..... (porn is free now on internet so everybody has acces to it ) - why would they desire more ? they are perfeckly happy as long as they have their wallmart around , huge ass mortgage and pornhub etc. -

mindless sheeps lead to slaughter by corporations and banks nothing more.

[Deleted]

I've been waiting to say this...

America... the American Dream :')

No hate intended, but I am glad America is falling of their high horse. Net neutrality is just the start, who knows what's next? Paying for air perhaps? It's crazy how they force you to buy company-specific packages to maybe watch something on youtube that is related to that company. It's just more moneygrabbing.

[Ishayu]

No, it's really easy. Any router with deep packet inspection can do it. China just often chooses not to.

You can't deep inspect an encrypted package. It's encrypted! You don't know what's in it. You don't even know where it's going, because VPN's also act as a proxy, and there may even be a multiple layers of proxies.

So China chooses not to - because China is known for their restraint in censoring the internet... right.

The reality is that a VPN can be any encrypted traffic flowing from any location to any other location. On its way there, you can't tell what it is or where it's going. You can shut down the companies offering VPN's like China has indeed done, but every single time you do, another one takes its place. These little illegal companies are going to spring up all over the place like a plague, and the best thing you can do is play whack-a-mole.

Blocking all VPN's is extraordinarily difficult unless you want to block all encrypted traffic, and good luck with that.

Companies like Comcast insert a script into your web traffic each time you try to use the internet, they don't need to block encryption to throttle VPN. Aside from scripts they can force you to download software in order to block VPNs, there are tons of ways around this. Of course VPNs would adapt and new workarounds will be invented but VPNs are not foolproof.

If you wanna see how far the VPN workaround game can go, look at China.

Answer: It can go very, very far. And VPN's win.

They can, however, easily throttle it and have before Title II.

Which is of course why Title II was ineffective anyway.

Also, my job is in Cyber Security for international networking companies and small time businesses. So, on that note, I've experienced it personally when setting up company networks, especially for monitoring employees. If you know how, you can ping the encrypted locations, then throttle or block them just like any other IP address. It isn't the actual encryption that is blocked or throttled, it's entire packet that is marked as encrypted, which is very easy to do.

I don't care about your job credentials. I can't actually tell you what I work with, and let's just leave it at that, but it doesn't make what you say true or false.

What you say is true however, but the thing about VPN's is that they can be created by any small business or person and set up and taken down in seconds, and there can be millions of them running at the same time. The only way to make sure you hit all the VPN's is to just throttle everything encrypted, which would include HTTPS, which I can assure you you won't get away with as a telecom provider. Ever.

You have to understand that this is a problem of scale. There are probably 1 billion devices at least making encrypted traffic in the USA. You simply cannot ever manually start making up actually VPN's, and you can't tell VPN's from other encrypted traffic.

[hakujinbakasama]

I've been waiting to say this...

America... the American Dream :')

No hate intended, but I am glad America is falling of their high horse. Net neutrality is just the start, who knows what's next? Paying for air perhaps? It's crazy how they force you to buy company-specific packages to maybe watch something on youtube that is related to that company. It's just more moneygrabbing.

America at present is the last Western country and culture that hasn't completely succumbed to the new age leftist ideal. The removal of ISPs from Title II is another victory against that path.

[DenniZ]

You have this INCREDIBLY backwards. Net Neutrality wasn't a problem because ISPs decided not to scum people out of money. If I recall this correctly, Comcast saw how big Netflix was getting and purposefully slowed Netflix's services to anybody using Comcast's internet. They then demanded money from Netflix in order to reverse this policy. This was when Obama created regulations that would prevent ISPs from doing anything like this.

So... no.

Yeah and you also get to keep your doctor and your healthplan.

[Shadoweye]

I've been waiting to say this...

America... the American Dream :')

No hate intended, but I am glad America is falling of their high horse. Net neutrality is just the start, who knows what's next? Paying for air perhaps? It's crazy how they force you to buy company-specific packages to maybe watch something on youtube that is related to that company. It's just more moneygrabbing.

Oh so now I am "forced" to buy cable/satellite and internet now?!?!?! What kind of shit is that... they cant force me to buy cable/satellite and internet!!! Unlike healthcare, which I was forced to buy or pay a fine...

[Gray_Matter]

Thread warning - Post on topic. This thread is about NN. Future off topic posts will be infracted.

[hakujinbakasama]

I don't get it. If people are against it - go on streets and make riots?

While there are some people angry about it, it seems that most of it centers around a vocal group in either Tech association or in the boarders of other countries.

What several people miss is that this isn't neither good nor bad but simply is. Government is historically behind the times in many ways. This passage will simply give way to something else, and that something else will undoubtedly be high campaign contributions and midterm election platforms.

Despite what a lot of babies are freaking out about this week, the end result was always the same. This is the modern tango of business in politics.

My suggestion to those who are seriously at their wits end over this would be the following.

Sell your shit and move out to the west. Montana is nice. Grow a pair and see what life is like absent your pornhub and wow. You might learn perspective.

[Deleted]

While there are some people angry about it, it seems that most of it centers around a vocal group in either Tech association or in the boarders of other countries.

First of all the world is interconnected, you might have heard of it. Its called the internet and travel. Americans insanity does ripple around the world, so no, youdont get to brush aside voices from outside the us.

Second of all your claim that there are some people angry about it is extremely dishonest. almost any and all modern internet users are angry about it.

Third of all, about Your conspiratorial tone regarding tech circles, this is the fucking internet we are talking about of course more informed and thus more vocal and angry people will be also more technically oriented. This only grants those voices more legitimacy, not less. Ignorance of the gullible technological illiterates is not an argument in favor of staying calm, its pretty much what youd expect at all times.

- - - Updated - - -

Sell your shit and move out to the west. Montana is nice. Grow a pair and see what life is like absent your pornhub and wow. You might learn perspective.

How about you grow a pair and stop bullshiting? You dont know nor can imagine the conditions average internet user lives in, makng people pay extra for most common internet websites is not exactly siding with the poor or rural communities you fuckwith. its exactly the oposite. You have no argument, this is not a partisan issue and making people pay more instead of the current package is only lining pockets of wall street suits. If you had any balls you'd practice what you preach and id never see you on the internet again. If youd leave your mud hut once in a while you might notice that you are being shit on from the top of the corporate ivory towers. Heck you might even be lucid enough not to pretend its raining, or that ignoring it is somehow helping the people who are poor by having them pay more for internet acces - WHich is the most idiotic thing i have ever heard in a long while.

So congratulations, with your lack of inteligent perspective you have beat even the most delusional angsty teenage communism sympathisers on this forums. Well done!

[Cerus]

The internet worked just fine for a couple of decades before the government stepped in. Good riddance to NN - I don’t need governments fucking it up with BS regulations and taxing the shit out of it which would happen under NN.

The few instances of ISPs throttling were caught and dealt with. But quite frankly, companies like Netflix, Skype etc have been abusing the lines that the ISPs spent billions to install and maintain. And why shouldn’t a heavy user pay more than someone who just checks the news and their email?

[hakujinbakasama]

How about you grow a pair and stop bullshiting? You dont know nor can imagine the conditions average internet user lives in, makign people pay extra for most common internet websites is not exactly siding with the poor rural comunities you fuckwith. You have no argument. If you had any balls you'd practice what you preach and id never see you on the internet again.

I'm not "bullshitting." Look for 3 seconds you'll find another post I've made where I itemized the cost of internet for my household at a current estimate of $1800 annually and could easily say "fuck that" and do something actually better with the money.

1. Don't presume to what I do or don't know. It's funny that you can so adamantly assume what I am or am not aware.

2. "Common websites" is ubiquitous as well as unimportant to me. If they cannot afford a product which facilitates Netflix that's life. I cannot afford a private jet...the world keeps spinning.

3. It seems you are conflating my position of mocking chicken littles to that of one of hysteria. You should fix that.

[breadisfunny]

The internet worked just fine for a couple of decades before the government stepped in. Good riddance to NN - I don’t need governments fucking it up with BS regulations and taxing the shit out of it which would happen under NN.

The few instances of ISPs throttling were caught and dealt with. But quite frankly, companies like Netflix, Skype etc have been abusing the lines that the ISPs spent billions to install and maintain. And why shouldn’t a heavy user pay more than someone who just checks the news and their email?

so much ignorance. sean hannity is that you?

[Deleted]

The internet worked just fine for a couple of decades before the government stepped in. Good riddance to NN - I don’t need governments fucking it up with BS regulations and taxing the shit out of it which would happen under NN.

The few instances of ISPs throttling were caught and dealt with. But quite frankly, companies like Netflix, Skype etc have been abusing the lines that the ISPs spent billions to install and maintain. And why shouldn’t a heavy user pay more than someone who just checks the news and their email?

Except data restricted plans and mobile internet plans with limited monthly transfer rates that are made exactly for the users who are just checking their news and email existed already. Now you will have to pay extra for whatever they claim you should. Id restrict email and news first. Seems the most important to you so you would pay more for it

See you dont understand business and you dont understand what you are talking about regarding internet packages. You proppably dont understand how much bandwith you consume every month either and youl be supprised when your "i cant possibly use more than 20gb a month" theory falls apart.

Not to mention that you are a consumer who reacts with joy when told he is going to have to pay more.
And a citizen who reacts with joy when told that news hes acces to news and information may be manipulated via paywalls decided by the monopolist isp's.

[Keosen]

Well you reap what you sow.
That what happens when you vote an unethical billionaire to run your country with the hope that he will care about your interests.

Frankly this is a major indication on how much corrupt and not-free your country is, lobbyist are shoving billions into representatives throats to vote against your interests all the time, but you still vote the same people over and over again.

Net neutrality it's just the start of all things.
You already had one of the shittiest internet status among the 1st world countries, data limits, expensive services, 0 privacy and now you're falling deeper into the hole where your ISP can throttle or block access to any site they don't like or they don't pay them enough.
We're talking about some North Korea level of shit here.

Well done Amurica, well done.