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  1. #21
    Brewmaster Naoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenschezar View Post
    they won't because they can't. all they can do is write "it's not vanilla then isn't it?"

    OT: would really like to see that feature be implemented. hopes up!
    Which is true, right? people wanted a classic experience so give them a classic experience, how can it be a classic feature with shit that wasn't even in the classic game? I started wow during TBC so I'm looking forward to classic when it releases but if it's essentially content locked at 60 but with updated wow features to me that's pointless.

    Question is, where do you draw the line? sure they can add dual spec in classic that wasn't part of classic, then what? then we can think of another 20 things they can add that are cool and make the game better, then that classic experience because a fraud right? to me it's either got to be classic 100% as it was or you might as well play legion, level a toon to 60 and lock the xp.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome BadguyNotBadGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    No, you can't, that's the whole reason you're making this thread : you can not freely respec. You need to pay. That's the point.

    - - - Updated - - -


    "here is why it's bad"
    "okay, so why is it bad ?"

    Sorry, can't help you if you actively ignore the arguments provided.
    no no, you didnt say it would be bad. you mentioned a possible effect it might have. and you forgot to mention what are the negative implications of said effect.

    sorry, i cannot be helped when you actively dont answer the question.

    now no need to get fucking sarky, were having a discussion, so put effort into discussing rather than being sarcastic

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by BadguyNotBadGuy View Post
    no no, you didnt say it would be bad. you mentioned a possible effect it might have. and you forgot to mention what are the negative implications of said effect.

    sorry, i cannot be helped when you actively dont answer the question.

    now no need to get fucking sarky, were having a discussion, so put effort into discussing rather than being sarcastic
    Okay, let's call back the quote :

    And that's precisely why double spec would alter the game. If people didn't often change spec, it was because it was costly.
    What it means is that it allowed suboptimal spec with added utility/versatility to be valid choices. Convenience at the cost of performance. The ability to switch spec on the fly massively reduces the viability of such "intermediate" spec.


    The first sentence point that it would change the game. The rest is describing how it would be bad. And then you quote this and ask "but why would it be bad ?".
    Hence you're either :
    1) Unable to read.
    2) A troll.

    You're not "having a discussion", you're either speaking to yourself or trying to get a rile by playing dumb. Not going to waste more time with you.

  4. #24
    I really don't understand why everyone wants to put all the things into the WoW Classic. If you want these features, play retail. All these details and annoyances were what made vanilla wow what it was. Otherwise it's not going to be vanilla, and it will probably fail.

  5. #25
    Jesus, when will people get it through their heads that if you add ANYTHING to vanilla, it is not vanilla any more. It is not a hard concept.

    Or they should add the new talent system, zone scaling, LFG, cross-realm, demon hunters, and the Broken Isles to Vanilla? LOL

    Why the hell do you people even want Vanilla back if you're just gonna add stuff from retail to it?
    Last edited by getupkid55; 2017-12-15 at 03:55 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    And that's precisely why double spec would alter the game. If people didn't often change spec, it was because it was costly.
    What it means is that it allowed suboptimal spec with added utility/versatility to be valid choices.
    Convenience at the cost of performance. The ability to switch spec on the fly massively reduces the viability of such "intermediate" spec.
    No it didn't. If you spec for PvP in a PvE guild your performance drops and you get kicked out. No one did a PvE/PvP spec in a competitive PvE guild.

    Only the nolifers that went for Rank 14 and probably account shared had the money/time to respec between raids and PvP days.

    Intermediate specs don't exist at a high level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Naoto View Post
    Which is true, right? people wanted a classic experience so give them a classic experience, how can it be a classic feature with shit that wasn't even in the classic game?.
    You know what was in the classic game?

    -40 man dungeons

    - falling through the world

    - Bugged C'thun impossible to kill

    Give me a break with this '' give us 100% classic '' shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gushDH View Post
    I really don't understand why everyone wants to put all the things into the WoW Classic. If you want these features, play retail. All these details and annoyances were what made vanilla wow what it was. Otherwise it's not going to be vanilla, and it will probably fail.
    Precisely, it's an annoyance. It has no purpose, hence most people just use one spec and don't waste their life on respeccing.

    Which means it needs to change.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by gushDH View Post
    I really don't understand why everyone wants to put all the things into the WoW Classic. If you want these features, play retail. All these details and annoyances were what made vanilla wow what it was. Otherwise it's not going to be vanilla, and it will probably fail.
    Because most of the people doing these suggestions are the ones who are NOT interested in Vanilla, and they just want to pollute it for others.
    It's petty, but then after reading the Nostalrius megathread for a long time, pettiness is deeply ingrained in the anti-Vanilla crowd.

    (fun thing : a lot of the anti-Vanilla posters in said megathread regularly post in this subforum, says it all)

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by getupkid55 View Post
    Jesus, when will people get it through their heads that if you add ANYTHING to vanilla, it is not vanilla any more.
    Right, so if they start with 5 man dungeons instead of 40 or fixed c'thun instead of bugged it's not Vanilla anymore.


    Dumb logic.

  9. #29
    Ree not Vanilla, ree.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Because most of the people doing these suggestions are the ones who are NOT interested in Vanilla, and they just want to pollute it for others.
    It's petty, but then after reading the Nostalrius megathread for a long time, pettiness is deeply ingrained in the anti-Vanilla crowd.

    (fun thing : a lot of the anti-Vanilla posters in said megathread regularly post in this subforum, says it all)
    I've been playing Vanilla for 10 months now, soon to start raiding AQ as a pretty accomplished raider and I definitely want dual spec.

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    As someone who bounced around specs a lot on some of his characters in Vanilla. I would welcome this with open arms.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    No it didn't. If you spec for PvP in a PvE guild your performance drops and you get kicked out. No one did a PvE/PvP spec in a competitive PvE guild.
    That's today-WoW mentality. Most of the guilds in actual Vanilla weren't that intrusive.
    So yes it did.
    Intermediate specs don't exist at a high level.
    WoW Vanilla was specifically not a game limited to high-level, intermediate spec were pretty common for the vast majority of the population.
    Even at high-level, there were many people who actually used them. The "everybody did this" are just forum claims, reality is always more nuanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    I've been playing Vanilla for 10 months now, soon to start raiding AQ as a pretty accomplished raider and I definitely want dual spec.
    No.
    I would, though, welcome a much lower cap on respec (5 or 10 gold).
    But I refuse to get this "you can switch on the fly" shit.

  13. #33
    Mechagnome Storfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutri View Post
    Sometimes I get the feeling a lot of the posters here want everything there is in retail wow and play it in the vanilla world locked at 60.
    Spot on. This is what the casual-pleb crowd from cata and onwards want.

    I hope by god blizzard wont listen to them.
    “Listen... Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.” – Dennis

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    That's today-WoW mentality. Most of the guilds in actual Vanilla weren't that intrusive.
    So yes it did.

    WoW Vanilla was specifically not a game limited to high-level, intermediate spec were pretty common for the vast majority of the population.
    Even at high-level, there were many people who actually used them. The "everybody did this" are just forum claims, reality is always more nuanced.
    No it's not. Not if you want to actually go beyond BWL. You'll want players at the top of their game and having PvP specs in PvE is unacceptable.

    WoW Vanilla was specifically not a game limited to high-level
    You can do Dire Maul as much as you want, WoW's endgame was always raiding and high level PvP. Intermediate specs will work in neither.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Storfan View Post
    Spot on. This is what the casual-pleb crowd from cata and onwards want.

    I hope by god blizzard wont listen to them.
    Dual Spec is the opposite of casual, that's what you purists don't get. No one spent 1000g on respecs in Vanilla, are you nuts?

    I've played on E/LH for 8 months and spent under 100g on respecs. And I'm in a competitive PvE guild and also got to Rank 9.

  15. #35
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    In vanilla there was no real need for dual specs.. Since (if I remember right it has been a hell of a long time), when you chose your class say in this case a mage and then decided to go fire, frost or arcane you could take some of the early talents from the other trees while filling out your main specs tree..

    This link shows what the original trees were like https://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent ..

  16. #36
    so far i've seen people wanting new models, dual spec, LFR, TBC Talent trees, lower level mounts, heirlooms...

    Why not ask for Classic Wow with all the X-pacs?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Right, so if they start with 5 man dungeons instead of 40 or fixed c'thun instead of bugged it's not Vanilla anymore.


    Dumb logic.
    40 man dungeons were fixed in vanilla to a max of 5 or 10 depending on the dungeon, and very quickly as well.... So that is a part of vanilla, other than that..you're seriously comparing a bug fix to a feature that completely changes the dynamic of the game? Wow...


    Based on your posts, you very clearly have only played Vanilla on a private server years after the fact. Please just stop.
    Last edited by getupkid55; 2017-12-15 at 04:04 PM.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome Storfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Dual Spec is the opposite of casual, that's what you purists don't get. No one spent 1000g on respecs in Vanilla, are you nuts?

    I've played on E/LH for 8 months and spent under 100g on respecs. And I'm in a competitive PvE guild and also got to Rank 9.
    Exactly! And that's the whole point of vanilla! You choose your path and then stick to it. That's one of the main ingredients of a successful (True) MMORPG. Choices matter. Character building matter.

    Dualspec opens up a freedom that hollows out the core of the game that IS vanilla.

    And yes, it IS casual.
    “Listen... Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.” – Dennis

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Because it doesn't negatively impact the game. AS it is no one spends money to respec.
    Neither does having more race/class options, cross faction AH, dungeon finder (arguably). Yet all of these are NOT vanilla and shouldn't be added

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    No it's not. Not if you want to actually go beyond BWL. You'll want players at the top of their game and having PvP specs in PvE is unacceptable.
    That's again today-WoW mentality.
    As it's been pointed in MANY threads, it was more important to "be a team player" and "do the job required" in Vanilla than to climb the output meters. Raid fights were more about management than rush (in fact, the entire Vanilla experience is more about pacing and management than rush, which is precisely one of the fundamental differences with today WoW).
    Also, again pointed in many threads, the differences in performances weren't as pronounced as most caricature it. The whole point of tailoring your spec was to be able to be pretty close to optimal while still keeping utility and convenience. That was a pretty interesting balancing act, in fact.
    You can do Dire Maul as much as you want, WoW's endgame was always raiding and high level PvP. Intermediate specs will work in neither.
    You're wrong on both count.
    WoW endgame was still only a part of Vanilla.
    And intermediate spec DO work. That's their entire point. You're just using today-WoW "it's number 1 or shit" filter, which is one of the very reasons to keep dual-spec out of Vanilla (to hamper this mentality).

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