Why not have Dual Spec?

[grexly75]

As someone who bounced around specs a lot on some of his characters in Vanilla. I would welcome this with open arms.

I think that was probably one of the reasons they went to the system from MoP.. I remember if you wanted to redo your talents in vanilla you had to go back to the trainer to unlearn your talents then remember what went where to the part you wanted to change..

[pateuvasiliu]

Neither does having more race/class options, cross faction AH, dungeon finder (arguably). Yet all of these are NOT vanilla and shouldn't be added

Having more race/class options definitely impacts the game. An Orc Mage for instance would be nuts due to the stun resistance. Or Orc Paladin. Or Orc Druid.

Cross Faction AH allows AH mafia.

Dungeon finder ruins the social aspect.

So no, you're wrong.

[fooliuscaesar13]

I wouldn't be upset if respec was cheaper (like, a tenth of the cost that it was in Classic) or if there was an alternative like Dual spec.

That said, I'm not going to champion the idea either. I'm quite happy with Classic WoW and all of it's flaws and rules and slow combat and expensive leveling and harder hitting mobs and larger aggro radius. In short, I'm sure I'll be pretty excited to play whatever incarnation they give us.

[grexly75]

so far i've seen people wanting new models, dual spec, LFR, TBC Talent trees, lower level mounts, heirlooms...

Why not ask for Classic Wow with all the X-pacs?

They do have it, its called Legion they just have to realize it..

[pateuvasiliu]

Exactly! And that's the whole point of vanilla! You choose your path and then stick to it. That's one of the main ingredients of a successful (True) MMORPG. Choices matter. Character building matter.

Dualspec opens up a freedom that hollows out the core of the game that IS vanilla.

And yes, it IS casual.

Paying 1000g on something optional isn't casual. It's the opposite.

Secondly stop with that " Character building matters, it's a true RPG " crap. If you truly cared about an RPG feeling and lore and choices mattering you'd be against respec altogether, as it makes no sense for a character that used spells offensively all their life to suddenly become a healer.

Dualspec opens up a freedom that hollows out the core of the game that IS vanilla

A dualspec that costs 1000g would not be used by most people, it would be used by competitive people wanting to do both PvE and PvP. In the long run Dual Cost is far more costly than manually respeccing, which very few do.

- - - Updated - - -

Why not add LFR and LFG too? I mean people only have so much time to play the game

Because doing so would ruin the social aspect of Vanilla. Idiotic analogy.

[grexly75]

Why not add LFR and LFG too? I mean people only have so much time to play the game, it isn't really fair that only the purists get to enjoy vanilla WoW.

It will be interesting to watch general/trade chat spam for dungeon groups for hours on end when the classic servers go live..

[pateuvasiliu]

That's again today-WoW mentality.
As it's been pointed in MANY threads, it was more important to "be a team player" and "do the job required" in Vanilla than to climb the output meters. Raid fights were more about management than rush (in fact, the entire Vanilla experience is more about pacing and management than rush, which is precisely one of the fundamental differences with today WoW).
Also, again pointed in many threads, the differences in performances weren't as pronounced as most caricature it. The whole point of tailoring your spec was to be able to be pretty close to optimal while still keeping utility and convenience. That was a pretty interesting balancing act, in fact.

You're wrong on both count.
WoW endgame was still only a part of Vanilla.
And intermediate spec DO work. That's their entire point. You're just using today-WoW "it's number 1 or shit" filter, which is one of the very reasons to keep dual-spec out of Vanilla (to hamper this mentality).

No, it's not. If you think guilds like Nihilium had people in PvP specs in their raids you're nuts. Sure, the casual scrubs went to Molten Core as a Fire Specced Mage, but that's not going to happen again. It only will in guilds that have no idea what they're doing.

it was more important to "be a team player" and "do the job required" in Vanilla than to climb the output meters. Raid fights were more about management than rush (in fact, the entire Vanilla experience is more about pacing and management than rush, which is precisely one of the fundamental differences with today WoW).

Yes and the job of hunters, rogues, mages and warlocks and DPS warriors is to top meters, thanks. WHich is why you don't take PvP talents and make the raid harder for your 39 mates.

close to optimal while still keeping utility and convenience.

Having PvP talents is not utility and convenience.

You're wrong on both count.
WoW endgame was still only a part of Vanilla.

No, I am not. WoW was always the endgame. You can enjoy levelling as much as you want, but the real deal was the raids and to a lesser extent PvP. This applies to every expansion.

And intermediate spec DO work. That's their entire point. You're just using today-WoW "it's number 1 or shit" filter, which is one of the very reasons to keep dual-spec out of Vanilla (to hamper this mentality).

You are insane if you think dual spec changes that mentality. No serious guild is going to take a hunter that's Survival or BM for the PvP. Their DPS will be trash and they'll be dead weight while also adding no DPS to their party via Trueshot.

[Pull My Finger]

Real Vanilla or no Vanilla at all.

[pateuvasiliu]

Real Vanilla or no Vanilla at all.

Sure, let me pull out the blink through the world bug, 40 man Deadmines and bugged C'thun.

Seriously at this point I think anyone who posts this garbage never played Vanilla.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Okay, let's call back the quote :

And that's precisely why double spec would alter the game. If people didn't often change spec, it was because it was costly.
What it means is that it allowed suboptimal spec with added utility/versatility to be valid choices. Convenience at the cost of performance. The ability to switch spec on the fly massively reduces the viability of such "intermediate" spec.

The first sentence point that it would change the game. The rest is describing how it would be bad. And then you quote this and ask "but why would it be bad ?".
Hence you're either :
1) Unable to read.
2) A troll.

You're not "having a discussion", you're either speaking to yourself or trying to get a rile by playing dumb. Not going to waste more time with you.

im pretty fine with you "not bothering" with me, since you argument is fucking pointless. at no point did you give a solid point proving that being able to respec with ease would be detrimental to the game. do you think that raiders in would be allowed to have a suboptimal spec unless the guild needed them to have that extra utility in the raid? dont make me fucking laugh buddy.

im super hype for classic, and hope it succeeds, however to say that it should come back with literally all the annoying bullshit is absolutely stupid. Like sure dawg, have terrible mobs spawn rates, also no quest mob "sharing", so enjoy your 5 minute wait while the mob respawns and someone else tags it before you. no one wants that right? so there we go, a QoL improvement that doesnt change how your life in the game.

Dual spec will let you have a grand total of TWO fucking specs. its not the same as being able to freely respect now, so chill the fuck out, and maybe, just maybe, think things through a tad before posting your waffle

[Pull My Finger]

oW was always the endgame. You can enjoy levelling as much as you want, but the real deal was the raids and to a lesser extent PvP. This applies to every expansion.

This is a massively stupid opinion. And of course 100% wrong.

[pateuvasiliu]

This is a massively stupid opinion. And of course 100% wrong.

Ahuh. Sure. Now go back to farming Stratholme for all of Vanilla because you can't find a raiding guild with your Enhancement spec.

I'll be busy clearing Naxx.


Game balance and content is 100% tuned to the endgame. Don't come tell me this garbage about how fishing and levelling are what WoW's all about, it's not, never was and never will be.

[Dahij]

they won't because they can't. all they can do is write "it's not vanilla then isn't it?"

OT: would really like to see that feature be implemented. hopes up!

The respec cost gave characters an identity, most people were sticking to their chosen spec 99% of the time. My warrior wasn't just known as "warrior" during vanilla, when people saw me in groups they knew I was the tank because that was my characters identity most of the time. Every week I'd respec arms for a day to pvp or farm and then respec back.

Dual spec would remove all that identity that a character builds up throughout vanilla and if you can't comprehend that, then clearly you didn't actually play vanilla or you were a healer or tank that had no clue how to get enough gold for respecs once in a while.

[Echocho]

I think it would be a nice addition if switching specs cost 50g.

[Pull My Finger]

Ahuh. Sure. Now go back to farming Stratholme for all of Vanilla because you can't find a raiding guild with your Enhancement spec.

I'll be busy clearing Naxx.


Game balance and content is 100% tuned to the endgame. Don't come tell me this garbage about how fishing and levelling are what WoW's all about, it's not, never was and never will be.

That's why Vanilla sucked and we got the glorious WoW of today instead. You can blather your nonsense in an echo chamber all you want. Maybe all the ringing in your ears makes you believe it's true. But it hasn't been that way since WotLK at the latest. Welcome to the real world. Seems like reality past you by long time ago.

[barrsftw]

please argument your statement, cos im interested in how it would negatively impact the game

The economy would be destroyed. Not only would people not spend gold to respec anymore (one of the biggest gold sinks in the game), but now suddenly half of the playerbase can farm gold when they couldn't before. All healers/tanks can now just freely respec and farm gold when they couldn't really do that before without heavy penalty.

Similarly, there would be less hunters/warlocks running around. Because now holy priests, warriors, etc, don't need a farm characters.

Not to mention, raids would all be easier because you would have tanks/healers frequently respeccing depending on the fight, rather than making hybrid builds that can serve both roles if need be for various fights.

The list goes on. These "simple" changes affect so much more of the game than people who never played Vanilla realize.

[Hellrime]

That is a really great idea, I hope they implement that in Wrath Of The Lich King when it comes out. Oh wait, what year is it? Oh you're talking about for Classic realms? Oh, no then.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

The economy would be destroyed. Not only would people not spend gold to respec anymore (one of the biggest gold sinks in the game), but now suddenly half of the playerbase can farm gold when they couldn't before. All healers/tanks can now just freely respec and farm gold when they couldn't really do that before without heavy penalty.

Similarly, there would be less hunters/warlocks running around. Because now holy priests, warriors, etc, don't need a farm characters.

Not to mention, raids would all be easier because you would have tanks/healers frequently respeccing depending on the fight, rather than making hybrid builds that can serve both roles if need be for various fights.

The list goes on. These "simple" changes affect so much more of the game than people who never played Vanilla realize.

The only part that sounds even partially detrimental is the bit about the raids. The economy being "ruined" means everything is cheap, which in itself is also good. Also have two specs means only that respecing is done approx. 50% less often, since folk are likely to keep one raiding and one farming spec, and only some will keep two raiding specs. so i doubt it will have as big of an impact. respect for different bosses would perhaps simplify a few fights as again, you've only got two possible specs, so you its not a "spec for each boss" like we can do now.

i dont think that seeing less farming alts is an issue at all. in fact, it is possibly a boon.

[Hellrime]

they won't because they can't. all they can do is write "it's not vanilla then isn't it?"

OT: would really like to see that feature be implemented. hopes up!

Yet your argument is "I want, I want, gimmie", the argument for them THIS IS FOR THEM!!!! NOT THE GODDAMN WHINY BANDWAGONERS! IF THEY FEEL LIKE THE QoL CHANGES WOULD CHANGE WHAT THEY, THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY WANTED IT ALL ALONG, WANT THEN NO!

[shade3891]

What's the point of having vanilla if it's not vanilla? If we start adding stuff that go tadded later, we might as well play retail, because people will demand everything

It not vanilla it is classic
Hoping they only reroll the good bits!