"i don't join pugs because they are controlled by players"

[Jaylock]

I've seen this statement from a few people who advocate for keeping a queue system in the game. My question is why do you feel this way? Just because a pug that is listed in the group finder tool (which is one of the best features Blizzard implemented into the game) is asking for certain types of players, does that mean that they are automatically not worth joining because they are formed by real people instead of a machine or automatic queue?

I never understood why people (especially people who choose to play an MMO) would not want to interact with any other players at all. It just doesn't make sense.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Some kids have a problem with 'authority'.

[Deadite]

I take one look at the group finder and see the insane requirement then hit LFR instead.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Indeed Jaylock, you hit the nail on the head!

It's especially funny when they then turn around and blame the game, or indeed even other players, for their own lack of social interaction. Meanwhile they do everything in their might to avoid said social interaction.

I bet you that if Raid finder and Dungeon finder was removed, these people would rather return to sitting in cities whining about "nothing to do!" over joining player controlled groups/making their own groups. After all, player behaviour shaped the tools given to us.

[potis]

Cheap excuses by terrible players that dont realize how terrible they are and everyone is at fault but them.

WoW in its certain form doesnt even require that much time, doing all 4 LFR's as a DPS takes more time than clearing Normal, and in a couple of months even HC clearing will take less than doing LFR.

The only argument that exists for LFR anymore is "I dont want to have a schedule when i play WoW", any other argument is just inability to comprehend how easy the game is, or you are so horrible at the game you cant even see how easy it is.

The social interaction part which i doubt is because of the social aspect and more so the fact some people cant play the game at a level were you arent considered to be a monkey behind the screen and they are afraid to be judged.

Seen it before on newer players that are left alone and not helped by others, they are terrified of simple things like a M+0 or M+1 and instead pretend its about the "social aspect" when its mostly once more, the fear to be judged and yelled at.

[Eleccybubb]

As per usual Jay hits the nail on the head.

I mean why play an MMO if you aren't willing to at least do some form of basic interaction with people?

And if you don't want to then there is LFR. Simple as that.

I'll always pug my weekly Normal and hell since Antorus I've actually made some Battletag and Realm friends from doing so.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Some people cannot accept they aren't on the level. So they just complain about those that are. Likely a sign of a not very seccessful person. Just like those that will list out how bad ass their job, girl, and cars are in defense of such a comment.

[Eli85]

People who are playing a game for fun are often turned off by (in their minds) unrealistic requirements that PUGs, unfortunately, impose on groups. Instead of trying to reach these overblown requirements — or start a group themselves, which they may feel uncomfortable with — they go have fun with content that does not impose any untoward restrictions (which automatic queuing is).

So much of it comes down to: i) players do not want to see their leisure game be seen as a job (and M+ in particular can feel like this); and ii) not be chosen or not being good enough feels too dissimilar to sports in the playground, and all the hurt feelings when a person isn't selected.

While I do feel some of these reactions are overblown, I do understand it. In addition, the only time I, personally, play long stretches of this game — as I do now — is when I'm in a solid guild. Even in this expansion, when I could not find a good guild fit (and thus I had to PUG), I only lasted a week or two, because getting into content can be incredibly challenging when you do not want to lead a group. It's not about taking short cuts either; it is simply a byproduct of players over stating their group requirements.

tl;dr Players prefer queuing over premade finders because they don't want to play the unrealistic requirement game.

[Hellrime]

Because they couldn't get into groups any other way. That is the problem with LFR, it boosts the ego but it is so undeserved. Wack a mole is not and will never be actual raiding.

[Jaylock]

I take one look at the group finder and see the insane requirement then hit LFR instead.

Why don't you start up a pug group with lower requirements?

Is it because you might have to know what you are doing and possibly know boss mechanics and not be carried?

I mean, if YOU feel that YOU are geared enough for whatever it is that you want to sign up for, and you arent getting invited to the ones you sign up for, why not just make your own?, that way problem is solved.

[Rotted]

In 12 years of playing I've never ever seen or heard of someone not joining because it's formed by players.

I've heard people say they feel undergeared / nervous / not meeting requirements to join pugs, but never because its a player formed one over one formed by the system

[Razion]

In a state of affairs that surprised absolutely no-one, it turns out people who play games are generally pretty introverted and/or anti-social. People want the option to play with others when they feel like it but don't necessarily want to all the time (a loose connection - seeing others but in the world yet not being forced to say hi, etc). Humans are a social species by nature, and while some certainly can not everyone can be 100% on around everyone absolutely all the time. Making rules for yourself to give yourself time to recharge, pace your interactions, or to enjoy time on one's own is entirely normal and expected.

Consider the following for a person who may have high performance or social anxieties: A bunch of strangers you don't know (aren't friendly with, don't trust, are fearful of), weighing your performance in situations that are judged to volatile extremes of "we don't care if we kill anything, everyone can stand in or swap-blast each other into fire if they want," (this group is destroying itself, I can't help and I'm panicking) to, "we expect to kill everything in this much time, be this geared and perform this well." (If I slip up once, minorly, over something stupid, it's the end).

Some people are really competitive (traditionally, DPS). Some people just want to help and don't want to get yelled at (traditionally, healers). Some people want some leverage of control to make sure things can go as smoothly as possible (traditionally, tanks). Some people feel all of these to varying degrees.

I think you might find, OP, if you look at the kind of players you found the opinions you expressed at the start, you may find these players have some of these things in common with each other - if not more than I'm not thinking of. I probably wouldn't worry about your friends too much in these sorts of situations (they've developed their own coping mechanisms, so to some extent they must find it sustainable or they wouldn't keep doing it), but you can probably offer to be supportive. Sometimes to help a friend all they need is a familiar face to help them feel like everything's going to be okay.

At the end of the day, if your friends don't like PuGing, it could be a nice and cool thing to do to offer to go in and group with them so they don't feel so alone.

[ro9ue]

I like the queue option, but I agree with the general premise that if you are complaining about player-made requirements... feel free to start your own group.

[Deadite]

Why don't you start up a pug group with lower requirements?

Run people through a raid i have never done? Why would i inflict that on other players?

[Eleccybubb]

Run people through a raid i have never done? Why would i inflict that on other players?

Then why should people have to run you through a raid if you haven't done it?

I mean if you watched a guide then fair enough but if you aren't adhering to the groups requirements then your only 2 options are...

1. Make your own group.

2. LFR.

As I said if you watched a guide then you should easily be capable of leading all 11 bosses on Normal.

[Alithia]

I take one look at the group finder and see the insane requirement then hit LFR instead.

What insane reuirements? Most groups require curve 950, something that everybody has by now.

[Deadite]

Then why should people have to run you through a raid if you haven't done it?

I mean if you watched a guide then fair enough but if you aren't adhering to the groups requirements then your only 2 options are...

1. Make your own group.

2. LFR.

Where did i say people should do anything for me? I already said i choose option 2. I don't care if people put insane requirements. They can do anything they want.

[Gaidax]

I advocate for keeping queue system in game because it's a convenient way to get various activities done. I don't really care about the whole controlled by players or not part, although I wish to remind you how so many groups have these insane requirements and you are competing with ridiculously geared people waiting in line for mundane activities.

Queue system allows to both avoid that and give people a quick shot at some fun and not too serious stuff. Don't see why some have their panties in a twist about having that.

[Bearshield]

Queue system is faster than waiting for someone to hand pick their "perfect group". I've been in just as many fail pug raids as I have fail LFR, I see no difference between the two as far as the players are concerned. That said, I don't generally pug raids and I rarely do LFR. I raid with my guild so I actually get the benefit of getting to know the people I'm doing this stuff with and there's some sort of accountability driving people.

[Svisalith]

I take one look at the group finder and see the insane requirement then hit LFR instead.

Those requirements are for competing with other players that sign up, not the content