[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Kathandira]

The "theme" and "aesop" i got from Finn & co. was "Obey your superiors, don't question your orders. If things turn bad you're SoL and better pray for a miracle". Their part should have been just edited out.

I read it more as, be patient, learn to trust those with more experience, and don't just dash in and try to be the hero when there is so much at stake. I felt they pushed that point pretty well.

[Arrowstormen]

The "theme" and "aesop" i got from Finn & co. was "Obey your superiors, don't question your orders. If things turn bad you're SoL and better pray for a miracle". Their part should have been just edited out.

That was amazing honestly. Super surprising, and it gave Poe a really great arc. Sooo often we see that trope with the one guy that goes ahead and does a thing despite being told to not do it, which turns out to be the correct thing. It was nice to see it reverted for once, and to create a theme of "better to live to spark the resistance than to die as heroes as the First Order takes over the galaxy."

[Halyon]

The "theme" and "aesop" i got from Finn & co. was "Obey your superiors, don't question your orders. If things turn bad you're SoL and better pray for a miracle". Their part should have been just edited out.

It did prove a point. Not in the best way, and the screentime of this sub-plot could have been reduced, but it did serve as some character development to Finn, and showing what bad leadership in an already strained rag-tag group could cause. Blind obedience is not good, thinking up dangerous plans without the full information is also bad. Poe got restless and trigger-happy, and got them in on it as well. I'm more diappointed at the immediate subversion of the "don't just blow shit up whenever" thing though. I get that they were going for a "there's a time and place for everything", but it translated to more of a weak leadership moment from Leia. Furtunately it's the only one she has in the movie.

Also what Arrowstormen said.

[Altrec]

Everything you said in that sentence is wrong.

That is what I felt about what you said when I made that statement. Maybe silly generalizations about people with different opinions on things is not the best course of action?

[Elim Garak]

It's not that they shouldn't make mistakes. It's that their mistakes were so massive, ignored the chain of command, nearly got the entirety of the resistance killed, and will undoubtedly be swept under the rug for the next film. You can see it at the base at the end, Poe going rogue got so many of them killed yet Leia's still grooming him for a leadership position.

Poe is not the only one who was responsible for that mistake. Most of the people who did mutiny with him were at that base at the end and died defending it. And it is not his fault that Finn and Rose failed to get the master-codebreaker and settled for a shady one. Poe's plan was actually quite solid. His mistake was that he was hotheaded and didn't trust the leadership, this mistake taught him a valuable lesson and he will be a great rebel leader. Hence Leia is grooming him for such a role. Also thanks to his mistake they took the First Order's flagship out of the picture (otherwise the vice admiral would have just sacrificed herself to buy some time for the transports which eventually would've been discovered anyway - instead she hyperjumped thru the enemy fleet) and also got rid of Phasma.

[Altrec]

I couldn't agree more. I think it's great that they're trying to move the franchise on and still give the old a respectful send-off.

I would agree accept for the last part. I didn't find the send off respectful at all.

[Slybak]

My issue with the movie is that it moves too fast in the important parts and moves too slow in other parts. It's an extremely exposition filled movie, LOTS of information is trying to be conveyed and none of it feels very impactful and in some cases not even understandable WHY it's significant (like that part with Rey and the reflections?).

Rey is burdened by the fact that she was abandoned by her parents and seeks to find out who she is. The purpose of the reflective wall is to show her what she secretly knew all along: that she is her real parents - she had to raise herself - and a big part of her arc is dealing with the sense of loneliness that creates before it corrupts her. Its why she runs off to join the Resistance and latches on to Han Solo in TFA, its why she overstays her welcome with Luke in the first half of TLJ. Her seeking out of Kylo Ren is due to the temptation that this loneliness creates, but she overcomes it when she rejects his offer to rule alongside him.

The movie just didn't feel like it had the gravity it should have, it felt like a Saturday morning action cartoon romp more than an Epic Star Wars movie to me.

Oh, I don't think its a perfect movie, for sure. Just a good one, especially for a Star Wars movie. The Finn/Rose/DJ plotline felt really out of place, and the Poe/Leia/Holdo plotline didn't have a good enough payoff (I mean... the guy mutinied and he gets a pass?). But the Luke/Rey/Kylo parts of the movie are where it really shines. And while it has some technical flaws, the cinematography is some of the best of the franchise.

It's like... Guardians of the Galaxy 2. I went into that movie expecting a rote sequel; amusing, but familiar. Instead I got a movie about a group of people who suffered intense child abuse and neglect managing to forge a healthy, supportive family with each other. I liked that. And I like TLJ for the same reason. I expected a rote sequel, and got something different and deeper.

Sure the movie may have been about leadership, heroism, legacy and legend..... because it told you so many times, but it didn't feel that way. It didn't feel epic, the message they were trying to convey was buried in too much humor, snark, irreverence and "coolness" to feel really meaningful.

It's not about those things. Its about the burden that those things create, and how people with those burdens can overcome them (or, in the case of Kylo Ren, be forever trapped by them). Luke is wracked with regret stemming from the burden of his own legend. Poe is burdened by his desire to be the hero that saves the day and winds up getting most of the Resistance killed because of it. Leia is burdened by her role as a leader who has to sacrifice others (even her own son) for the cause. Kylo Ren is burdened by the Skywalker legacy and his perceived failure to live up to it. TLJ is about how these characters struggle to transcend these burdens, because ultimately they're rooted in ego. They're the ones holding themselves back. Yoda basically spells it out.

[Kathandira]

Poe is not the only one who was responsible for that mistake. Most of the people who did mutiny with him were at that base at the end and died defending it. And it is not his fault that Finn and Rose failed to get the master-codebreaker and settled for a shady one. Poe's plan was actually quite solid. His mistake was that he was hotheaded and didn't trust the leadership, this mistake taught him a valuable lesson and he will be a great rebel leader. Hence Leia is grooming him for such a role. Also thanks to his mistake they took the First Order's flagship out of the picture (otherwise the vice admiral would have just sacrificed herself to buy some time for the transports which eventually would've been discovered anyway - instead she hyperjumped thru the enemy fleet) and also got rid of Phasma.

Lieutenant Connix (Carrie Fishers Daughter) was one of them. She was a low key awesome character.

[ohiostate124]

Apparently the Last Jedi’s audience score is tied with AotC for the lowest at 57%.

[Slybak]

That is what I felt about what you said when I made that statement. Maybe silly generalizations about people with different opinions on things is not the best course of action?

Mine wasn't silly. Complaining about outrageous defiance of physics in a Star Wars movie is silly.

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Apparently the Last Jedi’s audience score is tied with AotC for the lowest at 57%.

ESB was pretty controversial when it was released in 1980.

Just sayin'.

[ryan11d7]

I still am just baffled that Snoke was killed so easily. He was able to instashock Kylo when he stood up against him. He was able to plant memories/connections between Kylo and Rey. He was obviously super powerful and was able to extract the memories of Rey. And yet he wasn’t able to sense a ls being turned on him that was right next to him. You could argue arrogance but I don’t think he wouldn’t be able to tell it was being turned on him. Especially with the wording he was using still makes me think he knew that would happen. I think they should have built Kylo up through more training and time and then handed it off. Unless the goal is more movies than 1 more. He seems rather immature/weak for a Sith Lord. I could see if there is gonna be 2-3 more movies they will have time to build his power up, but if it’s only one more movie I think they can properly build him up.

[Elim Garak]

I'm still baffled how people often forget about the first Sith commandment.
1. Be overconfident you are in total control.

[Deleted]

Apparently the Last Jedi’s audience score is tied with AotC for the lowest at 57%.

AotC has a lower score than TPM? o.0

[Altrec]

Mine wasn't silly. Complaining about outrageous defiance of physics in a Star Wars movie is silly.

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ESB was pretty controversial when it was released in 1980.

Just sayin'.

"But if these are your complaints, then frankly you've done nothing to alter my opinion me that TLJ is a steak that's been served to too many people who have subsisted on a diet of doritos and snickers bars. " Is pretty freaking silly.

As much as TLJ was trying to be ESB it isn't and never will be. The only thing they both have in common is mixed reviews at the moment, but it seems audiences are not nearly as sold on this current attempt.

[Slybak]

I read it more as, be patient, learn to trust those with more experience, and don't just dash in and try to be the hero when there is so much at stake. I felt they pushed that point pretty well.

The fact that the person whose courage and leadership that "hotshot flyboy" Poe was questioning was an older woman was a bit on the nose.

[ohiostate124]

AotC has a lower score than TPM? o.0

I think phantom menace is at 59%

[Slybak]

As much as TLJ was trying to be ESB it isn't and never will be. The only thing they both in common is mixed reviews at the moment, but it seems audiences are not nearly as sold on this current attempt.

What makes you think TLJ was trying to be ESB? They're completely different movies tonally and thematically.

[Deleted]

I still am just baffled that Snoke was killed so easily. He was able to instashock Kylo when he stood up against him. He was able to plant memories/connections between Kylo and Rey. He was obviously super powerful and was able to extract the memories of Rey. And yet he wasn’t able to sense a ls being turned on him that was right next to him. You could argue arrogance but I don’t think he wouldn’t be able to tell it was being turned on him. Especially with the wording he was using still makes me think he knew that would happen. I think they should have built Kylo up through more training and time and then handed it off. Unless the goal is more movies than 1 more. He seems rather immature/weak for a Sith Lord. I could see if there is gonna be 2-3 more movies they will have time to build his power up, but if it’s only one more movie I think they can properly build him up.

It was a really dissapointing way to handle snoke imo. I hope we get more information about who he was in the next movie or books/comics/tv series what ever. Seems like he could be interesting.

Snoke looks pretty old and looks like he should be dead, all those scars and missing tissue around his face/neck, seems like he could have a really interesting backstory. And not to mention being super powerful, i really wanted to find out a bit more about him, where he came from, because i doubt a being as powerful as him was just chilling on some random planet during the time of the republic, then the empire etc.

[Halyon]

AotC has a lower score than TPM? o.0

IMDB rates TLJ at 8.1 atm.

[baskev]

Okay , i loved it. While i did not like episode 7 that much. This one was great. Good story arcs , good hero/villian moments and character development. Great effects. The humor was not that irritating as in MCU/DCU etc movies.


Side note. Any seen Rottentomatoes score...holy shit.
I am insulted with the people posting on there.
They give it a low score for the following things: to little character development, to many story lines ( 4 of them), a good by to some old friend(s). If you read the comments you think holy shit...this people really do not know movies...this movie has great story, allot of development in the characters. Instead of the simple FF franchise story lines a nice one. And its setup a new star wars universe witch is free of the previous one, by still honoring it.


SPOILERS BELOW!! beware!!!
Lets go in deep on it:
- character development: Pretty much all the new hero's/villains have a bit of story around them. Some more then others. Poe gets allot of teaching in how to follow up leia in the future. Rey gets allot of training how to become the new Main jedi. Finn finally finds his footing. Emo skywalker Jr also gets allot of deep conflicting emotions. They also introduce a new hero Rose , who's has a great story about who she is, why she is etc

- Luke's "death" : also allot of fanboys who hate that he has become one with the force. While its clear from the start of the movie that he is not going to make it to the end. And its clear from the start that he is ( story wise) to powerful so he needed to end. And they did it with grace. And carrie fisher....holy shit. She had some epic moments. But even then you see they are setting up for her to leave also.

- multiple story lines: Apparently most of these "fans" are idiots and can not handle more then 1 story line. It has 4 running at all times. 3 main ones are Poe, Finn, Rey. And the 4th one the jumps between luke and kylo


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It was a really dissapointing way to handle snoke imo. I hope we get more information about who he was in the next movie or books/comics/tv series what ever. Seems like he could be interesting.

Snoke looks pretty old and looks like he should be dead, all those scars and missing tissue around his face/neck, seems like he could have a really interesting backstory. And not to mention being super powerful, i really wanted to find out a bit more about him, where he came from, because i doubt a being as powerful as him was just chilling on some random planet during the time of the republic, then the empire etc.

who says snoke is death? He might be someone like valkorion.