"i don't join pugs because they are controlled by players"

[durenas]

I am very sympathetic to people with mental illness, it is not only highly stigmatised, but also one of the hardest things to overcome. People suffer from it every single day in many situations.

However, this magical "Social Anxiety" in most people has never been diagnosed, has never been verified or treated beyond a small amount of people that genuinely have intense feelings of paranoia, and an inability to cope in actual real situations because of it.
Many people specifically misjudge or self-diagnose themselves because they want to feel special, or unique, or get attention from others. Same twats will say "Oh, I have depression!" when they are just feeling a bit down because it is a miserable day, or because it is the magical *thing* to have this time around.
This isn't a "Hey, let's laugh at the mentally ill every body!" mentaiity, but instead a "Let's actually treat the people who have it, and diagnose it correctly", and not let stupid teens who have read a couple of things on the 'net, and somehow assume they have something because they hit 1-2 of the criteria, and want to be unique and special.
Very big difference, but as usual, hey, if you mention it, you're unempathic or unrecognising of peoples *struggles*, when in reality people need to realise their might not actually be anything wrong with them beyond normal social behaviourial issues that literally *everybody* has.
The difference is as palpable as that between apples and oranges, and is completely off-topic anyways. Besides, low post count lurker? Why would I even worry

You're speaking in these broad generalities but the message I am receiving from you is 'I don't believe people who suffer from social anxiety are actually mentally ill' which I vehemently disagree with. Maybe it doesn't require serious drugs, but it is definitely something people struggle with daily and they don't deserve the dismissal.

[zlygork]

While I am not defending this position by any means, I do know that there are people with severe competition/social anxiety that might really not feel comfortable at the idea of someone evaluating their application. You mught argue that then they have no place in a raiding environment, but you know. Just my 2 cents.

[Deleted]

I am very sympathetic to people with mental illness,

Right?

this magical "Social Anxiety"

"Oh, I have depression!" when they are just feeling a bit down

stupid teens who have read a couple of things on the 'net

Right.

[Xeranath]

I’d never pug because usually, in my Timezone, 9\10 group are partially done, the reqs are probably more than the average member of said group, there is a certain obnoxious attitude when it comes to accepting pugs, in that they need to know more than the raid leader or gtfo, and its much better to group as a guild anyway.

In any case, LFR is no substitute for actual raiding. Mechanics? What are? Target dummy!

[Deleted]

Not in the slightest, it *is* real. People do suffer form it and it is crippling. I am disagreeing with the amount of people who say they have it, because they read an article or something, and then say so over and over to anyone who will listen.
That is what I am disagreeing with, the special snowflakes who have such a desire to be unique, they will latch onto anything in order to seem special, and in doing so, they lessen the impact of people with genuine mental illness. Such attitudes are dangerous and completely counter to trying to help de-stigmatise it all. After all, how can you believe someone cannot leave their house as they are utterly terrified and paranoid that people are staring at them, and even the merest thought of speaking to a stranger leaves them with panic attacks and unable to operate, when some silly teen says they have it simply because they are confusing "feeling a bit iffy when speaking in public" is equal to "crippling social phobia and inability to operate"?

Right. You and which medical degree?

If you don't want to get ripped to shreds over this, then perhaps you shouldn't act as if you're qualified to make such assessment simple because you've been diagnosed yourself.

Because, y'know, that's not how healthcare works.

[RoKPaNda]

Why don't you start up a pug group with lower requirements?

Is it because you might have to know what you are doing and possibly know boss mechanics and not be carried?

I mean, if YOU feel that YOU are geared enough for whatever it is that you want to sign up for, and you arent getting invited to the ones you sign up for, why not just make your own?, that way problem is solved.

This is ironic considering how you get carried week after week through Heroic by the guild but okay. I mean if we're keeping it real, you spent the last two raid tiers getting absolutely carried by a Mythic guild. Remember how you tried to claim that was an alt because you didn't know that Mythic achievements show on your alts as well as your main? So you honestly can't get too judgy there friendo.

That said, anyone who has ever raided in any capacity knows that not everyone is fit to lead a raid. A guild's raid leader is the raid leader for a reason afterall. There's a lot more to it and your average Mythic raider, let alone your average Heroic pug raider, isn't equipped to lead a raid. So the whole "lul make your own group lul." excuse is just a convenient way to dismiss a problem that a lot of players have. I can get into a raid because I outgear said raid, or I have an achievement I can link on alts from my main's progress. The average player doesn't have those things. They want to run a raid that's rewarding for their skill level, and if all the groups require higher than what the raid drops, or that you've already completed the raid, and you're not one of those people that's a capable raid leader (and most are not.) then they're boned.

I always tell them to fake achievements or just buy a boost for a couple hundred thousand gold and then use the achievement from that to get into raid pugs each week.

They're not complaining because they don't want to interact with other players, they're complaining because player set requirements are often, and always have been, extremely inflated for the most part, and they themselves aren't capable raid leaders. I would hate to be in their position, and just because I don't personally have their problem I don't get to dismiss it as not real.

[durenas]

Not in the slightest, it *is* real. People do suffer form it and it is crippling. I am disagreeing with the amount of people who say they have it, because they read an article or something, and then say so over and over to anyone who will listen.
That is what I am disagreeing with, the special snowflakes who have such a desire to be unique, they will latch onto anything in order to seem special, and in doing so, they lessen the impact of people with genuine mental illness. Such attitudes are dangerous and completely counter to trying to help de-stigmatise it all. After all, how can you believe someone cannot leave their house as they are utterly terrified and paranoid that people are staring at them, and even the merest thought of speaking to a stranger leaves them with panic attacks and unable to operate, when some silly teen says they have it simply because they are confusing "feeling a bit iffy when speaking in public" is equal to "crippling social phobia and inability to operate"?

So this is a general rant against people you think are faking being mentally ill. Got it. I hope genuinely mentally ill people manage to avoid you in real life, because really, how are YOU able to tell the difference between a genuinely mentally ill person and someone who is 'faking'? This kind of attitude is worse than overdiagnosing mental illness. Better to help someone who doesn't need it than to not help someone who does.

[Djanco]

What insane reuirements? Most groups require curve 950, something that everybody has by now.

THIS. everybody who regularly raided at least heroic last tier has this! these groups are designed to not let people in who don't raid. that's the point.

what i did when i started raiding was make sure i knew how to play my character first of all, watch youtube guides for each boss, then join a guild (a real guild that regularly raids, not a trade chat cesspool guild who advertises they have free punch and pie) you'll be fine.

and before someone says "i am in a guild and we can't clear x!!" if you know you're more than capable of doing it then leave and find a better one. people do it regularly for one reason or another all the time, it's not a big deal. and if your friends in your current guild get mad at you for leaving for a better one, they probably weren't really your friends to begin with.

[Mackeyser]

Cheap excuses by terrible players that dont realize how terrible they are and everyone is at fault but them.

WoW in its certain form doesnt even require that much time, doing all 4 LFR's as a DPS takes more time than clearing Normal, and in a couple of months even HC clearing will take less than doing LFR.

The only argument that exists for LFR anymore is "I dont want to have a schedule when i play WoW", any other argument is just inability to comprehend how easy the game is, or you are so horrible at the game you cant even see how easy it is.

The social interaction part which i doubt is because of the social aspect and more so the fact some people cant play the game at a level were you arent considered to be a monkey behind the screen and they are afraid to be judged.

Seen it before on newer players that are left alone and not helped by others, they are terrified of simple things like a M+0 or M+1 and instead pretend its about the "social aspect" when its mostly once more, the fear to be judged and yelled at.

Totally agree with this.

I fell in love with this game during Vanilla, was a Guild Officer, Raid leader and Class leader during BC, LK and Cata. Tried to lead a small training guild in Panda and I really enjoyed teaching new players who were eager to learn about how to play as a team, deal with mechanics and how to optimize their performance all in a fun, supportive atmosphere. Was a fill-in raider in a pretty good guild during ToS, but I just can't attend.

Doesn't help that I'm 11 years older than when I started playing and I'm just not the player I was a decade ago.

WoW became WoW because of the community. And while some guilds weren't socially healthy, I made some life long friends from the guilds I have been in.

Unfortunately, because of health issues and family agro, I just don't have a schedule where I can commit like I think a player should (always having flasks and buff food, gems and enchants, etc). Worse, I play tanks and the idea of tanking for most LFR groups is just...well, it's not fun.

I still enjoy the game and the story and deep lore, but not as much as I used to. I dunno why people behave so differently in LFR besides not having any accountability, but I was raised that character meant doing the right thing even when no one was looking.

[Magnagarde]

I usually never pug anything as I do everything with my guild, but since we're doing mythic progress we skipped HC and therefor I went on to pug it. Had a pretty solid run and was pretty much topping the DPS meters on most fights(except one or two where SP and warlocks are literally unbeatable). We arrived at Aggramar and the raid leader started cutting the group down from 20 to 14, kicking people who've done everything right almost all the time. I asked him why he would do this and he just straight out kicked me too. Was some guy from Ravencrest EU.

Pugs should be avoided and it is much easier for casuals to join mythic raiding guilds that do normal and heroic runs with all guild members, rather than waste your time with people like the one I mentioned above.

[tkioz]

I don't join pugs because the WoW playerbase that pugs is full of toxic assholes who pull shit like joining your alt's 15 CoS, getting to the instance, waiting until you start the freaking key and then leave with a "lol sucker!" (was two people who signed up together with M+ scores in the 1900s so yeah... How about giving us a 'total prick' rating tool to go with your stupid system raider.io). That was the point I decided that I'm stick with guild groups even on alts.

[Protean]

What insane reuirements? Most groups require curve 950, something that everybody has by now.

I'm a mythic raider and I only crossed over 950 today. Not everybody has that by now.

[Talsar]

I don't mind pugging but i'd take a guild group any day. less likely to be full of whiny children who rage-quit after the first loss/wipe.

At least with raidfinder etc when the children leave you automatically get another bunch of em served up on a platter. Yay.

[Niroshi]

Have you considered OP that they just don't like PuGs?

I'm not really sure what the point of asking this is honestly. PuG requirements are set so the average person can't join. You guys don't want them, they don't want you.

[Jaylock]

Yes. I'm not the type of person you give instructions. Especially since it really isn't these people's place to do so, being that I'm most probably better at what they do.

I fear for your well being in the work force and in life.

Not following instructions that are meant to be for your benefit, information, and well being is not really recommended to have a happy and successful life. There's a reason we have street lights buddy.

[thunderdragon2]

So its hard to ignore and avoid those groups?

If you walk down the street and see a sign "come here for free sex and cheat on your wife!" does that mean you have to go there and cheat on your wife?

Big exaggeration there, but you get the point.

i do but i hope that you get the point that seeing alot of those grps can put some people off using the tool you cant eignore then if they are like 1/2 of the listings ive seen it be4

when i pug i make my own grps im patient with ppl but i set my illv req high because i have the ilvl to do so and i might want to try and do it on more than 1 toon that day

[Saffa]

Some kids have a problem with 'authority'.

Some adults have problems with kids! Needy, whiney, they would do better with their mothers online to hold their little, nasty, hands.

[Deleted]

What insane reuirements? Most groups require curve 950, something that a few have by now.

requiring 950 for a raid that drops as base 930 IS insane cause that means the groupleader wants to be carried.

[Pull My Finger]

I fear for your well being in the work force and in life.

Not following instructions that are meant to be for your benefit, information, and well being is not really recommended to have a happy and successful life. There's a reason we have street lights buddy.

It's OK, in real life, it all falls into place naturally. In professional life, I'm the one giving instructions, and it would be weird for subordinates to instruct me, right? Same thing in the game. So I guess it's been working out pretty well for me so far, right?

[Jaylock]

This is ironic considering how you get carried week after week through Heroic by the guild but okay. I mean if we're keeping it real, you spent the last two raid tiers getting absolutely carried by a Mythic guild. Remember how you tried to claim that was an alt because you didn't know that Mythic achievements show on your alts as well as your main? So you honestly can't get too judgy there friendo.

That said, anyone who has ever raided in any capacity knows that not everyone is fit to lead a raid. A guild's raid leader is the raid leader for a reason afterall. There's a lot more to it and your average Mythic raider, let alone your average Heroic pug raider, isn't equipped to lead a raid. So the whole "lul make your own group lul." excuse is just a convenient way to dismiss a problem that a lot of players have. I can get into a raid because I outgear said raid, or I have an achievement I can link on alts from my main's progress. The average player doesn't have those things. They want to run a raid that's rewarding for their skill level, and if all the groups require higher than what the raid drops, or that you've already completed the raid, and you're not one of those people that's a capable raid leader (and most are not.) then they're boned.

I always tell them to fake achievements or just buy a boost for a couple hundred thousand gold and then use the achievement from that to get into raid pugs each week.

They're not complaining because they don't want to interact with other players, they're complaining because player set requirements are often, and always have been, extremely inflated for the most part, and they themselves aren't capable raid leaders. I would hate to be in their position, and just because I don't personally have their problem I don't get to dismiss it as not real.

Who the fuck are you?

lol @ "herpa derp you get carried weak to week"

Do you actually think a guild would continue to bring me if they "carried" me? Nice try.

- - - Updated - - -

It's OK, in real life, it all falls into place naturally. In professional life, I'm the one giving instructions, and it would be weird for subordinates to instruct me, right? Same thing in the game. So I guess it's been working out pretty well for me so far, right?

Judging by your vomit inducing post history, i think its safe to assume you are fibbing about your station in life and work.