Saurfang and Nathanos' New models make me worry about Sylvanas.

[Kithelle]

This is usually the excuse used by everyone who suffers from an hate boner for Sylvanas and hates her given spotlight, unless said spotlight is not intended to turn Sylvanas into a raid boss, something that "the Old Gods did it", despite being a cheap excuse supported by literally zero hints (I didn't forget how everyone was shrieking "the Legion did it" before said Legion went to shit).

Yeah...you know because someone uses logic it most be because they hate her, not because she was obviously one of the worst choices out of all the Horde to become warchief.

Because her starting a war so the heroes who defeated the Legion kill each other off so there is no one to oppose the void...is all because of Sylvanas haters! Yup you heard it here!

[Scathbais]

I can't wait until we kill her at the end of BFA

I just can't imagine Blizzard making the Horde Warchief the villain again after doing so in MoP with Garrosh.

[pateuvasiliu]

This is usually the excuse used by everyone who suffers from an hate boner for Sylvanas and hates her given spotlight, unless said spotlight is intended to turn Sylvanas into a raid boss, something that "the Old Gods did it", despite being a cheap excuse supported by literally zero hints (I didn't forget how everyone was shrieking "the Legion did it" before said Legion went to shit) would make that goal relatively easy to accomplish.

Hate boner? Hating Sylvanas means you're normal. She's done horrible things and deserves the eternal hell waiting for her.

[Stooned]

No, you are a stupid one that speaks anything that comes out of your mind without looking what you are reading.Thus you pointing something that the original poster already explained.

Also, nice try bringing something from another thread that you know nothing about.

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That...would be actually interesting to see.

I wouldn't worry - most of what Arrashi posts is trash, bait, or plain bluster. Hardly worth a footnote.

[Mehrunes]

Yeah...you know because someone uses logic it most be because they hate her, not because she was obviously one of the worst choices out of all the Horde to become warchief.

Given how you're incapable of logic and post utter drivel about her all the time even in unrelated topic, you're the one to talk.

Because her starting a war so the heroes who defeated the Legion kill each other off so there is no one to oppose the void...is all because of Sylvanas haters! Yup you heard it here!

Except the quests in Silithus have Alliance attack first. You posted in that thread. Admittedly to show that you don't even inform yourself on the content of the OP before opening your mouth, but still.

[Arrashi]

Hate boner? Hating Sylvanas means you're normal. She's done horrible things and deserves the eternal hell waiting for her.

The only reason to hate is that she is way too soft.

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I wouldn't worry - most of what Arrashi posts is trash, bait, or plain bluster. Hardly worth a footnote.

Which fanfiction of yours had i insulted ?

[tinyninja]

I imagine Sylvanas will be put into a situation that forces her to step down as Warchief, possibly abdicating control of the Forsaken to Nathanos as a snub to the Desolate Council and the other leaders. If you think about it in a game mechanics perspective, he could easily adopt Sylvanas' previous boss mechanics for Alliance raids too. There's no way this expansion ends with Sylvanas as Warchief, but there's also not a shot in hell she dies or is pushed aside. It's such an awkward position they put themselves in just to reignite this faction conflict. Almost everyone agrees that she is a poor or strange choice for Warchief but she also has the biggest fan base among all the characters, so they can't just get rid of her like Garrosh or Vol'jin.

Saurfang is the ideal choice of Warchief. He is easily the most experienced military leader the Horde has and, more importantly, he knows when it is the right time to fight a war. He is the paragon of what it means to be an orc but also flexible enough to be able to work with the Alliance in times of need. He's an insanely popular and respected character among both the players and the characters in the story, it would be ridiculous not to make him Warchief at this point.

The criticism of his age was a valid argument back when we were arguing about who would be a better Warchief after Thrall, but it doesn't matter at this point. Garrosh and Vol'jin were in their prime, and Sylvanas would live forever if she had her way, but that clearly doesn't matter to Blizzard when it comes to who sits on the throne. Someone is a Warchief for as long as Blizzard wants them to be, and Saurfang could easily lead until the servers are closed.

Baine is the second most likely choice, if only because of his good relationship with Anduin. I imagine he would have a lot more support with the Highmountain joining the Horde now as well. At the same time I just don't see it, he hasn't had much of a presence since Vanilla and I don't see that changing. Cairne was interesting because he was ancient and he was a guiding star for Thrall when the orcs were trying to rediscover their old ways. Baine is pretty much just Cairne, which is good, but without any of the things that made him interesting, which is bad.

Lor'themar is... fine. He's a good leader that has had some screen time in the last few expansions but it still just feels weird to have an elf leading the Horde. Call that closed minded if you want but the Horde has a certain aesthetic that should be maintained. Blood Elves have been able to carve out their own niche in the Horde since their introduction, but a blood elf leading a faction like the Horde would just seem out of place. It seems that Blizzard wants to go back to Warcraft's roots more than a bit with this expansion, so I just don't see him taking the title, though I'm sure he would do a fine job.

[Stooned]

The only reason to hate is that she is way too soft.

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Which fanfiction of yours had i insulted ?

No - I just read most of the threads that happen to be graced with your presence, and you only appear to post inflammatory comments, insulting diatribes, or you plainly ignore the thread topic to call people stupid. It wears thin. I don't think I've seen a thread that you have posted in where you haven't been in, however facile, an argument with someone.

Anyway, on thread - I don't want Sylvanus to die, but I do want her to suffer in some way. She is the Warcraft equivalent of a dead horse, and she has been flogged to the nth degree. Would be nice to see the Queen of the Val'Kyr position open up for her. Would be a meaningful end to the story she has. Alternatively, she appears to be following in the footsteps of any other despotic character in the game. I'd place a bet on her being offed by Blizz before BfA is over.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Now this is nothing short of Conspiracy here, but listen:

In 7.3.5 Both Nathanos and Saurfang got new models. (Along with Baine, but that is irrelevant to my theory, or is it)

Now, it is widely known that Racial Leaders not having their own models is very poor taste. With those 3, almost no racial leader will have a player model, Except poor Lor'Themar (good character, given terrible amount of attention) Gelbin Mekkatorque (Who has a giant badass mech to compensate though) and the Council of Three Hammers (Magni compensates here, just a little bit. Also Moira may get some attention when the Dark Iron race gets released)

Now, why am I worried about Sylvanas? Mainly because of Nathanos. He already got a touch-up in Legion with a fairly unique-ish dark human model. But gaining such a detailed model for such a secondary character? Something is off.

I am speculating something will happen to Sylvanas. Not death, as that would be cliche (ANNOTHER dead warchief, really?) But perhaps, the follwing quote from Helheim may be interesting:



As far as I know, Sylvanas struck some sort of a deal with Helya in order to be able to bind Eyir and mass produce her own val'kyr. A deal foiled by Genn.

Also, it is known that if Sylvanas dies her last death, she will go into a realm of endless void, where Arthas is currently chilling at as well. She would do anything to avoid such and end to herself, perhaps even Sacrificing her own people (the arrows in her quiver)

What if Sylvanas somehow is bound to Helya now through their "Deal", and in Helya's death is pulled to be her replacement and bound in Helheim? (Something like Hades, guardian of the underworld) That would lead Nathanos replacing her as the Forsaken Leader and maybe a part of the Desolate Council, and Saurfang (or Baine) Being made Warchief, bringing the title back to the "Natural" races who should bear it?

Feel free to chime in!

I tend to agree this might be the route, with Sylvanas becoming the queen on Helheim and Nathanos becoming the racial leader of the forsaken -but kinda just following through with her same politics tbh-

As to how Sylvanas would end up as the Queen of Helheim, it could be played as an ironic punishment of sorts, or play it as more of a sacrifice, with the rest of the horde leaders going "maybe she wasn't so evil after all". Either way, yeah, I think he her pact with Helya would have to do with this.

It would probably end up taking Sylvanas cult of personality to new levels for the forsaken to the points she would be worshiped as a deity. Giving her the means to preserve the forsaken by having Helya's power, but giving up her freedom, would be the best resolution her character could have, of being always on the edge of her self preservation and securing her people. That's what Legion's bio alluded to, and I think it might come to pass.

[united]

lol @ alliance entertaining the chance that sylvanas might die and nathanos will take her place

1. he would kill herself so he would be with her

2. nathanos is worse than sylvanas in some ways. you would still be getting the same pragmatic forsaken leader, but in different clothing.

[Arrashi]

No - I just read most of the threads that happen to be graced with your presence, and you only appear to post inflammatory comments, insulting diatribes, or you plainly ignore the thread topic to call people stupid. It wears thin. I don't think I've seen a thread that you have posted in where you haven't been in, however facile, an argument with someone.

Anyway, on thread - I don't want Sylvanus to die, but I do want her to suffer in some way. She is the Warcraft equivalent of a dead horse, and she has been flogged to the nth degree. Would be nice to see the Queen of the Val'Kyr position open up for her. Would be a meaningful end to the story she has. Alternatively, she appears to be following in the footsteps of any other despotic character in the game. I'd place a bet on her being offed by Blizz before BfA is over.

Is it better or worse than purposefuly misspelling sylvanas as sylvanus ?

[ello]

I don't understand how anybody paying attention to the Sylvanas/Nathanos story could believe Nathanos would just take her place as Forsaken leader? I mean maybe the new book will change things but from what I've seen so far there is no indication he has any ambition outside serving Sylvanas.

[Deleted]

I am not anti Sylvanas but I would like to see someone else as Warchief. Saurfang would be my first choice then Lor'themar and Baine. Sylvanas should remain as undead racial leader.

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I imagine Sylvanas will be put into a situation that forces her to step down as Warchief, possibly abdicating control of the Forsaken to Nathanos as a snub to the Desolate Council and the other leaders. If you think about it in a game mechanics perspective, he could easily adopt Sylvanas' previous boss mechanics for Alliance raids too. There's no way this expansion ends with Sylvanas as Warchief, but there's also not a shot in hell she dies or is pushed aside. It's such an awkward position they put themselves in just to reignite this faction conflict. Almost everyone agrees that she is a poor or strange choice for Warchief but she also has the biggest fan base among all the characters, so they can't just get rid of her like Garrosh or Vol'jin.

Saurfang is the ideal choice of Warchief. He is easily the most experienced military leader the Horde has and, more importantly, he knows when it is the right time to fight a war. He is the paragon of what it means to be an orc but also flexible enough to be able to work with the Alliance in times of need. He's an insanely popular and respected character among both the players and the characters in the story, it would be ridiculous not to make him Warchief at this point.

The criticism of his age was a valid argument back when we were arguing about who would be a better Warchief after Thrall, but it doesn't matter at this point. Garrosh and Vol'jin were in their prime, and Sylvanas would live forever if she had her way, but that clearly doesn't matter to Blizzard when it comes to who sits on the throne. Someone is a Warchief for as long as Blizzard wants them to be, and Saurfang could easily lead until the servers are closed.

Baine is the second most likely choice, if only because of his good relationship with Anduin. I imagine he would have a lot more support with the Highmountain joining the Horde now as well. At the same time I just don't see it, he hasn't had much of a presence since Vanilla and I don't see that changing. Cairne was interesting because he was ancient and he was a guiding star for Thrall when the orcs were trying to rediscover their old ways. Baine is pretty much just Cairne, which is good, but without any of the things that made him interesting, which is bad.

Lor'themar is... fine. He's a good leader that has had some screen time in the last few expansions but it still just feels weird to have an elf leading the Horde. Call that closed minded if you want but the Horde has a certain aesthetic that should be maintained. Blood Elves have been able to carve out their own niche in the Horde since their introduction, but a blood elf leading a faction like the Horde would just seem out of place. It seems that Blizzard wants to go back to Warcraft's roots more than a bit with this expansion, so I just don't see him taking the title, though I'm sure he would do a fine job.

Agreed. This guy makes sense.

[Stooned]

Is it better or worse than purposefuly misspelling sylvanas as sylvanus ?

A succinct characterization of my opinion of her as a character.

[pateuvasiliu]

lol @ alliance entertaining the chance that sylvanas might die and nathanos will take her place

1. he would kill herself so he would be with her

2. nathanos is worse than sylvanas in some ways. you would still be getting the same pragmatic forsaken leader, but in different clothing.

Nathanos isn't as bad as she is. Sylvanas had no issue using Nathanos' nephew in a sacrifice. Nathanos felt regret. He's far more 'human' than she is.

[united]

Nathanos isn't as bad as she is. Sylvanas had no issue using Nathanos' nephew in a sacrifice. Nathanos felt regret. He's far more 'human' than she is.

that’s because nathanos was related to that guy they sacrificed.

if they had done the same process with alleria or vereesa, she would’ve felt “regret” as well.

[mickybrighteyes]

Nathanos's model in Legion was literally a Human Male with red eyes and random items thrown on. You list Lor'themar and Mekkartoque as the two that don't have unique models but Nathanos didn't either until BfA. He's getting an update because he's gonna play a bigger role than just 2 questlines in Stormheim, not because he's being shaped to take over the Forsaken. Sylvanas's model is recent and dosn't need updating again.

funny thing is that they gave him that new and improved model in Legion for his couple of quest roles XD

he was just a random undead forsaken model with a hood before and that was when he was teh forsaken equiv of Rexxar.

[Combatbutler]

Nathanos isn't as bad as she is. Sylvanas had no issue using Nathanos' nephew in a sacrifice. Nathanos felt regret. He's far more 'human' than she is.

Give it time he has the potential to eclipse her and once she bites it, I really hope he sticks around to actually be worse.

[Arrashi]

Give it time he has the potential to eclipse her and once she bites it, I really hope he sticks around to actually be worse.

Honestly, he strikes me as "forever right hand" type. Hes great when someone else has reins, but lack class and style to be "The boss".

[Trassk]

Good. The horde deserves a hero like saurfang to lead it given the shit its had to put up with the last several years. Decent leader, onto asshole leader, onto do nothing leader, only black hearted psychopath leader. It needs someone with some ACTUAL HONOR to them to revitalize the horde.

And I don't give a shit about sylvanas' story, she's awful, self entitled, like the other windrunner asshole sisters. If I could i'd throw all three of the windrunners up a void lords backside.