Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Dacien]

Trump signaled that maybe he'll pardon Flynn, "We'll see." Trump is either careless or knowingly says these things to provoke his opposition. Probably not a good time use language that suggests pardons are possible while the investigation is still on going.

A simple, "I'm not going to talk about that," would have done just fine.

[Edge-]

Trump signaled that maybe he'll pardon Flynn, "We'll see." Trump is either careless or knowingly says these things to provoke his opposition. Probably not a good time to talk about pardons while the investigation is still on going.

Knowingly, because he likes the headlines/attention. He's a bullshit artist/showman at his core. Normally I'd vote carelessness, as he routinely says the most idiotic of shit, but in this context this is his usual behavior. Just like his "calm before the storm" comment when pictured with military leaders, or his "wait and see" comment on Arpaio etc.

Because he still doesn't understand or respect the office he holds. It's not about America, it's not about the American people whom he is supposed to serve, it's all about him.

[Lenonis]

At what point does preemptively pardoning people become obstruction of Justice?

[Ripster42]

At what point does preemptively pardoning people become obstruction of Justice?

When you do it to prevent them from cooperating with an investigation. Or when 50%+1 of the house and 2/3 of senators say it is. Depending on what you're actually asking.

[Dontrike]

He should, but the idiots on the left will whine and cry like the bithes they are. Just liberals bring liberal.

If he does it's basically admitting that he's guilty. Plus that would actually make him the biggest whiny little bitch in the country, and in the world.

[cubby]

When you do it to prevent them from cooperating with an investigation. Or when 50%+1 of the house and 2/3 of senators say it is. Depending on what you're actually asking.

Lol, this cracked me up. Totally agreed.

Also, wasn't there discussion on whether you could pardon someone who hadn't been convicted of anything?

[Shadowmelded]

Trump signaled that maybe he'll pardon Flynn, "We'll see." Trump is either careless or knowingly says these things to provoke his opposition. Probably not a good time use language that suggests pardons are possible while the investigation is still on going.

A simple, "I'm not going to talk about that," would have done just fine.

Funnily enough, this on it's own could be obstruction in and of itself lol.

[Dacien]

This is getting into shaky ground for anyone who isn't just interested in uncovering the truth via Mueller, but is desirous of the crippling effects the investigation will have simply by existing and nailing associates on falsification charges.

That's because Mueller is in too deep. Assuming Trump avoids the disastrous temptation to fire Mueller, an investigation concluding with no criminal collusion charges and only false statement charges against associates would likely be viewed as something of a odd positive for many people. "They investigated him and found nothing serious. I guess it was nothing after all." Even if Trump himself is put up for impeachment over obstruction, sans a criminal collusion charge and assuming the impeachment fails to yield removal, it might very well make Trump appear to be unfairly targeted on baseless claims. "Nailed for whatever they could come up with, no collusion" would be the right-wing headlines.

After all these process crime plea deals, the left really needs something substantial to get this investigation back in the game, else it might end up having the opposite effect they were hoping for.

[Orbitus]

Who said it wasn't illegal?
It just has nothing to do with "Russian collusion". The lack of intelligence from leftist is sickening.

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Here's a fact liberals need to accept. There is no Russian, nor will there ever be Russian collusion.

Sooner you move on the sooner you'll regain some sanity.

We don't have evidence for that, YET. But with Michael Flynn's testimony and cooperation, we will get Kushner, Trump Jr., Pence, Bannon, and Trump himself. The FBI wouldn't give someone facing 60 years worth of violations, 5-12 months. Not to mention, Flynn's son. He could have been facing basically the same.

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Trump signaled that maybe he'll pardon Flynn, "We'll see." Trump is either careless or knowingly says these things to provoke his opposition. Probably not a good time use language that suggests pardons are possible while the investigation is still on going.

A simple, "I'm not going to talk about that," would have done just fine.

Doesn't matter. Him pardoning Flynn, will just mean that Flynn moves from a federal case under Mueller to a state case under New York. That was in his plea agreement. And he will also not be able to invoke the 5th anymore. So he will sing more.

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This is getting into shaky ground for anyone who isn't just interested in uncovering the truth via Mueller, but is desirous of the crippling effects the investigation will have simply by existing and nailing associates on falsification charges.

That's because Mueller is in too deep. Assuming Trump avoids the disastrous temptation to fire Mueller, an investigation concluding with no criminal collusion charges and only false statement charges against associates would likely be viewed as something of a odd positive for many people. "They investigated him and found nothing serious. I guess it was nothing after all." Even if Trump himself is put up for impeachment over obstruction, sans a criminal collusion charge and assuming the impeachment fails to yield removal, it might very well make Trump appear to be unfairly targeted on baseless claims. "Nailed for whatever they could come up with, no collusion" would be the right-wing headlines.

After all these process crime plea deals, the left really needs something substantial to get this investigation back in the game, else it might end up having the opposite effect they were hoping for.

Again, Flynn's deal was just lying to the FBI, but he is cooperating fully with Mueller now. Otherwise he was facing 60 years worth of charges. Pardoning him, just moves it from a federal indictment to a state indictment.

[kaelleria]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Flynn is cooperating is to keep his son out of trouble. He and his son both ran their consulting business. A Trump pardon and failure to cooperate would definitely bring down the brunt of Mueller on Flynn and Flynn Jr in the state courts.

[Orbitus]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Flynn is cooperating is to keep his son out of trouble. He and his son both ran their consulting business. A Trump pardon and failure to cooperate would definitely bring down the brunt of Mueller on Flynn and Flynn Jr in the state courts.

Yep, it was part of Mueller's deal.

[Shadowmelded]

After all these process crime plea deals, the left really needs something substantial to get this investigation back in the game, else it might end up having the opposite effect they were hoping for.

The investigation hasn't been "out of the game" unless you buy into partisan rhetoric.

[cubby]

This is getting into shaky ground for anyone who isn't just interested in uncovering the truth via Mueller, but is desirous of the crippling effects the investigation will have simply by existing and nailing associates on falsification charges.

That's because Mueller is in too deep. Assuming Trump avoids the disastrous temptation to fire Mueller, an investigation concluding with no criminal collusion charges and only false statement charges against associates would likely be viewed as something of a odd positive for many people. "They investigated him and found nothing serious. I guess it was nothing after all." Even if Trump himself is put up for impeachment over obstruction, sans a criminal collusion charge and assuming the impeachment fails to yield removal, it might very well make Trump appear to be unfairly targeted on baseless claims. "Nailed for whatever they could come up with, no collusion" would be the right-wing headlines.

After all these process crime plea deals, the left really needs something substantial to get this investigation back in the game, else it might end up having the opposite effect they were hoping for.

Did you get the memo where it was a GOP appointment for the investigation? In what world do you think this is Dem vs GOP? This is about right and wrong - we have objectively the most deplorable person in the white house in history. He needs to be removed - pick your legal reason - so we can move forward and put this stain behind us.

The investigation, again - APPOINTED BY THE GOP - is moving forward very nicely. Why would you ever think otherwise?

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The investigation hasn't been "out of the game" unless you buy into partisan rhetoric.

Dacien is literally the partisan rhetoric. He still thinks there should be daily updates from Mueller regarding investigation progress. The only people who don't think this investigation is moving forward are those that haven't been paying attention, or have been drinking too deeply from the kool aid stand (eyes closed or open?).

#deplorable45

[Dacien]

Did you get the memo where it was a GOP appointment for the investigation? In what world do you think this is Dem vs GOP? This is about right and wrong - we have objectively the most deplorable person in the white house in history. He needs to be removed - pick your legal reason - so we can move forward and put this stain behind us.

The investigation, again - APPOINTED BY THE GOP - is moving forward very nicely. Why would you ever think otherwise?

I'm specifically referring to "...anyone who isn't just interested in uncovering the truth via Mueller, but is desirous of the crippling effects the investigation will have simply by existing..."

I could have said in that last paragraph, "those people hoping to see Trump crippled by the investigation" instead of "the left", and I guess that was lazy shorthand, I'll concede that.

Because, after all, I think there's a conservative on this board who would fall into that category. Pretty sure there is.

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Dacien is literally the partisan rhetoric. He still thinks there should be daily updates from Mueller regarding investigation progress. The only people who don't think this investigation is moving forward are those that haven't been paying attention, or have been drinking too deeply from the kool aid stand (eyes closed or open?).

#deplorable45

I certainly don't think there should be daily updates, but I would have expected bigger bombshells than we've gotten so far. I do feel like Mueller is down one run in the top of the 5th; he could blow the whole ball game wide open with a damning new grand slam, but if he doesn't have the evidentiary hitter to make that happen, the best he can hope for is a tie game. Or worse, Trump comes out looking like the unfairly persecuted underdog winner.

[Edge-]

I certainly don't think there should be daily updates, but I would have expected bigger bombshells than we've gotten so far. I do feel like Mueller is down one run in the top of the 5th; he could blow the whole ball game wide open with a damning new grand slam, but if he doesn't have the evidentiary hitter to make that happen, the best he can hope for is a tie game. Or worse, Trump comes out looking like the unfairly persecuted underdog winner.

Do we need to link the timeline of this investigation compared to prior investigations? Because Mueller is still way further along compared to other investigations at this point. He's still investigating, he's not going to blow his load right at the start while they're still deep in the process.

Conservatives seem to be desperate to wrap this investigation up quickly. Let it fucking finish, this shit takes time.

[Ripster42]

I certainly don't think there should be daily updates, but I would have expected bigger bombshells than we've gotten so far. I do feel like Mueller is down one run in the top of the 5th; he could blow the whole ball game wide open with a damning new grand slam, but if he doesn't have the evidentiary hitter to make that happen, the best he can hope for is a tie game. Or worse, Trump comes out looking like the unfairly persecuted underdog winner.

Compared to past special investigations, this one is way ahead of the curve.

Do we need to link the timeline of this investigation compared to prior investigations? Because Mueller is still way further along compared to other investigations at this point. He's still investigating, he's not going to blow his load right at the start while they're still deep in the process.

Conservatives seem to be desperate to wrap this investigation up quickly. Let it fucking finish, this shit takes time.

I got you.

[Dacien]

Do we need to link the timeline of this investigation compared to prior investigations? Because Mueller is still way further along compared to other investigations at this point. He's still investigating, he's not going to blow his load right at the start while they're still deep in the process.

Conservatives seem to be desperate to wrap this investigation up quickly. Let it fucking finish, this shit takes time.

For sure, for sure, I'm in no rush, except for the interesting discussion that comes out of these Mueller announcements. Just pontificating. I absolutely do not discount that Mueller could have announcements to make with enormous gravity, and I'll accept those announcements.

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I also, actually, if criminal collusion is brought into the conversation in a substantial way by Mueller, will be happy for so many on here who believe it happened and were counting on Mueller to prove it. I've been skeptical, but I don't discount the possibility. And at that point, Trump basically betrayed the country and so many people here were right all along.

[cubby]

I'm specifically referring to "...anyone who isn't just interested in uncovering the truth via Mueller, but is desirous of the crippling effects the investigation will have simply by existing..."

I could have said in that last paragraph, "those people hoping to see Trump crippled by the investigation" instead of "the left", and I guess that was lazy shorthand, I'll concede that.

Because, after all, I think there's a conservative on this board who would fall into that category. Pretty sure there is.

You just keep moving those goalposts - we all love it.

I certainly don't think there should be daily updates, but I would have expected bigger bombshells than we've gotten so far. I do feel like Mueller is down one run in the top of the 5th; he could blow the whole ball game wide open with a damning new grand slam, but if he doesn't have the evidentiary hitter to make that happen, the best he can hope for is a tie game. Or worse, Trump comes out looking like the unfairly persecuted underdog winner.

Of course you think there should - you and your deplorables continually ask "where is the proof?" or "where is the collusion?" and we constantly tell you just be patient, these things take time. But you never listen.

Mueller is doing just fine - guilty pleas and indictments, moving slowly up the ladder to the top of the crime family. It's a text book investigation, headed and staffed by some of the world's best.


Edit: @Dacien - did you have similar concerns for the country when Hillary was being investigated nine separate times? Could you point to your posts about those "crippling investigations"?

[Felya]

If the investigation was going badly, there would be no need for Trump to comment on pardoning Flynn. The question would not even be asked...

[Dacien]

You just keep moving those goalposts - we all love it.

That's called a clarification, not moving the goalposts.

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If the investigation was going badly, there would be no need for Trump to comment on pardoning Flynn. The question would not even be asked...

I don't know why he would make those remarks. Carelessness or intentional provocation (which he seems to have a knack for). Either way, it's a bad look.