"go play retail then" is getting old

[Schattenlied]

Hmm...that's an interesting point. How large will the classic servers actually be? You got to know people on the server because the servers couldn't handle the amount of players that would make it difficult to do so. I wonder if they'll limit population to simulate this?

servers in vanilla held around 2,000 people before the queue started, and that was just because the hardware couldn't handle more.

They don't need to limit the server population for this, because only a relatively small % of the population does PvP...

[anon5123]

I want my true vanilla experience but can you add these features added in that come in years after

You're not playing on a 2002 PC with 12" CRT monitor and dial-up connection? GO PLAY RETAIL!!!

[Zyky]

You think something purely cosmetic breaks the game, however something that changes gameplay does not? Really?!

Just to be clear I want no changes, I just don't understand the justification for not thinking dual spec is a bigger problem than transmog.

The justification for transmog breaking the game is you have people taking loot that they don't need, weapons they don't want other than for looks, and it ruins economy. dual spec does none of that because the players aren't getting a chunk of the gold from the transmog market and they aren't taking things other people will need.

[MoanaLisa]

"Go play retail" is more condescending than anything.

It's simple enough (as many have already said): "Classic WoW should be some recognizable version of the game before Burning Crusade". That's all that needs to be said.

After it's been out for a year, perhaps that's the time to start talking about things that might be constructive additions or changes.

Perhaps.

But to start off with I quite agree that QOL changes from later on shouldn't be available. It won't be for everyone and that's great. Making games for everyone dilutes them greatly. I'm aware that "making games for everyone" is what Blizzard does but it's more extreme now than it was in 2005. So let's have some 2005-style MMO. There will be plenty of time to talk after a while as to whether it's everything we thought it was or whether it was nostalgia after all.

[Zyky]

Incorrect.

Many people felt spec identity was lost once dual spec became a thing. Everyone was expected to now play two specs, which also introduced dropping a tank to one tank fights, or DPS who could swap to healer for fights requiring less of a DPS check and more of a healer check. Warriors who only wanted to DPS felt required to have a tank spec, because everyone just assumed you wouldn't play two DPS specs. (Same with Shaman and Healing.)

It was highly controversial at the time, in the same way that tri-spec eventually became, and the current iteration of "you can swap specs at will."

You realize it was the exact same thing in Vanilla and BC right? Several times my guild either send the person out to respec while we were clearing trash because we needed more healers or more dps, that or they were simply replaced with another player who could do the role we needed. It's just people had a new way to complain about something that was an issue and being complained about prior.

[khazmodan]

Oh, here we go... people realised they wished for something crappy and already want to play retail. Which already exists.

I do hope all these people that want changes to Vanilla (which I assume are just bitter "you think you do but you dont and will never get it" trolls) just stay on retail with the dying population that is willing to deal with the RNG, and anti-community dumpster fire that it has become. Please just leave the Vanilla crowd to play the game that was made by the OG geniuses and not the current bunch of god complex, narcissistic control freaks that have no clue what made the original and 2 exp packs so successful. If anything, this will bring more people back to retail as well as Vanilla and i think a lot of people will play Vanilla to get there passion back for the game and clean the palette of the unearned cash grab culture Blizzard has turned into.

[Zyky]

But to start off with I quite agree that QOL changes from later on shouldn't be available. It won't be for everyone and that's great. Making games for everyone dilutes them greatly. I'm aware that "making games for everyone" is what Blizzard does but it's more extreme now than it was in 2005. So let's have some 2005-style MMO. There will be plenty of time to talk after a while as to whether it's everything we thought it was or whether it was nostalgia after all.

I basically said the same thing a few pages ago, it didn't sound as smartly put though lol, but people don't value others opinions anymore because like you said Blizzard has made their games more "for everyone" and people have been catered to. Either way with QoL changes or an exact mirror of 2004 I'll still play it.

- - - Updated - - -

I do hope all these people that want changes to Vanilla (which I assume are just bitter "you think you do but you dont and will never get it" trolls) just stay on retail with the dying population that is willing to deal with the RNG, and anti-community dumpster fire that it has become. Please just leave the Vanilla crowd to play the game that was made by the OG geniuses and not the current bunch of god complex, narcissistic control freaks that have no clue what made the original and 2 exp packs so successful. If anything, this will bring more people back to retail as well as Vanilla and i think a lot of people will play Vanilla to get there passion back for the game and clean the palette of the unearned cash grab culture Blizzard has turned into.

Have you even read most of the threads going on? No one is asking for anything you're stating for lol. People are asking for non game breaking QoL changes, which are rational for people to ask for to an extent.

[Zaeyla]

The point is that for many Classic fans/advocates/players things like dual-spec/aoe-looting wasn't in vanilla and weren't even considered at all, for me they would be heavily game-breaking and would entirely ruin many of the balance and gameplay features that I so entirely miss and enjoy about the Classic version of the game.

There are many small completely non gamebreaking tiny changes that many of us would personally like however if I got my 1-2 changes it is extremely likely that there'd be others whom would be validated in asking for far larger and far more invasive changes, I personally think things like dishonorable kills we're pretty shitty in vanilla but I'd totally want them back in their entirety in Classic because that is the experience I remember and that is apart of the game I've been asking for over a decade now.

Keep Classic as Classic as possible if there are people who want certain features from another expansion they should most likely petition Blizzard for a TBC->WoD server option instead, If asking for something and not getting an immediate response from blizzard deters you from doing so and instead asking for it in Classic than you'll have a good idea how it felt for many Classic advocates for the decade or more whom have wanted the Classic game back and should hopefully encourage you to want to try to keep it the same as well.
Dual-spec/Aoe Looting has many affects on the economy and gameplay experience that are not immediately obvious on the surface but have long term consequences on player behavior and the way the game will eventually play out.

Dual-spec hurts hybrid spec builds since players will no longer need to respec often you'd likely see even more pure builds and less "balanced/in the middle" specs, causes inflation of prices due to less need to sink gold continually in order to respec, if you can change specs anywhere it would have even far more reaching consequences where raids/dungeons you'd likely have playing swapping specs inbetween boss fights and benching players whom aren't as needed for that particular fight (Four Horseman for example where you need often 8 tanks).
Aoe-Looting will speed up farming and even worsen classic like Mages whom already are #1 god tier when it comes to farming/grinding because they no longer need to individually loot every corpse, it also hurts much of the danger out in the world since you can avoid many mobs whom you'd have had to pull/fight in order to get to the corpse nearby who likely fled in fear.

If I can come up for these many reasons for why these "small" changes/alterations would be detrimental to the game and experience there are likely others who have come up with much more intricate detailed reasons and explanations for why it would be counter to achieving the authentic vanilla experience Blizzard has advertised this as.

Please understand I and hopefully many others when we say "go play retail then" in you're words we're merely suggesting that there is a game out there that has all of the features and quality of life improvements that many desire already present.
Retail/Live WoW is a game constantly in flux/change and the Legion/BFA team is always open to changes so if you would like WoW without very "destructive" changes like LFR/LFD/Flying or something else perhaps you should petition/ask for Blizzard to make changes to the retail game to try to achieve the gameplay experience you are craving for, They did after all offer and came up with the idea of Pristine Servers/Realms awhile ago that was shouted down by the community perhaps you should ask for these again and accept that many want to keep Classic as Classic as possible.

[Clone]

If you thought vanilla is better than retail then you deserve all the lack of QoL features in vanilla. Go enjoy your muh arepeegee and muh comewnity, the rest of us will be in retail AoE looting and tri spec.

Edit: I hope classic doesn't come with connected flight paths.

[Better]

Nice job moving the goalposts and putting words in my mouth

Being able to swap between 2 specs allows that kind of gameplay. It was technically allowed back then, but so absurdly expensive, and inefficient that it wasn't done. You asked "How does switching specs change the gameplay?" That's the exact way it changes gameplay, goalpost wasn't moved at all.

[khazmodan]

If you thought vanilla is better than retail then you deserve all the lack of QoL features in vanilla. Go enjoy your muh arepeegee and muh comewnity, the rest of us will be in retail AoE looting and tri spec.

Edit: I hope classic doesn't come with connected flight paths.

Bye Felicia...

[Accendor]

while i agree with your premise, everything you said is wrong (or completely irrational) and i think you need to learn to logic.

Sorry mate, it is actually true

[anon5123]

The point is that for many Classic fans/advocates/players things like dual-spec/aoe-looting wasn't in vanilla and weren't even considered at all, for me they would be heavily game-breaking and would entirely ruin many of the balance and gameplay features that I so entirely miss and enjoy about the Classic version of the game.

AoE looting would "entirely ruin" vanilla for you? Clicking to loot once instead of 3 or 4 clicks would be "heavily game-breaking" ?



This is what I'm talking about when I say that purists just reject any kind of change and cry "NOT VANILLA!!!!". Seriously, aoe looting is so insignificant, changes almost nothing except reducing the number of times you click, and yet here you are, crying that it would be "heavily game breaking" and "entirely ruin vanilla"...are you even listening to yourself, purist?

[Molvonos]

I never did understand why people shat all over Nostalrius. Bunch of awesome dudes who sacrificed a lot to bring back something so great for everyone to enjoy. They started the movement that became the petition with Mark Kern that got Blizzard to recognize that this was something they needed to address.

I'll tell you first hand why a lot of us 'Shat on Nostrallrius'.

It wasn't because it was Classic or whatever the Purist Extremists might otherwise state to make themselves fell better, it was because it was stolen/pirated/plagiarized content.

I'm indifferent to the creation of Blizzard's Classic, over Private servers, because it's legitimate from the creators of the IP and they've stated they're using a completely different team without pulling resources from 'retail'. As such, I don't care if Classic servers are made. It simply doesn't affect me in the slightest. It's quite possible for people to like different things (which a lot of us were saying in that clusterfuck of a megathread) but it's not ok to steal/pirate something that was never yours, whatever the logical fallacies and mental gymnastics were required to justify stealing/pirating.

Also, the Nos/Classic movement happened before Mark Kern and ultimately, that chucklefuck did nothing useful, instead, he was trying to ride the coattails of the 'dedicated classic fans' to try and get his name back in the spotlight after he fucked himself over royally. He's a shitstain that needs to be forgotten.

[anon5123]

The justification for transmog breaking the game is you have people taking loot that they don't need, weapons they don't want other than for looks

....?

This literally never, EVER happens in retail.

Why would it happen in vanilla? Even if it does happen, you just tell the community about that person ninjaing shit, and bam, nobody invites them to groups anymore.

Stop it.

[urasim]

You're not playing on a 2002 PC with 12" CRT monitor and dial-up connection? GO PLAY RETAIL!!!

Dial-up in late 2004? Where were you living that had dial-up still?

[Zaeyla]

AoE looting would "entirely ruin" vanilla for you?

Purists, everyone.

I never said it would keep me from playing or make it so I'd never try Classic but yes it would very much so ruin or "taint" the experience I recall/remember and would ruin the balance of the game in many different ways for many people, I also in my post gave a fairly thorough reason why things like dual-spec and aoe looting would be a bad idea.

Aoe-looting has very long term consequences it hurts the danger outside in the world as well as hurting the economy of Classic it should not be included for these reasons but also because it simply was not present in Classic nobody who played in Classic recalls seeing aoe/area looting and many are coming back to the game for the experience they recall/enjoyed over the years and not a retail/Live WoW lite version.

[chrisnumbers]

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game

go play retail then

- - - Updated - - -

This literally never, EVER happens in retail.

Don't you know what happens when you use words like NEVER?

[Kazuchika]

Threads like these are a prime example of why classic servers are going to be an colossal waste of time and why Blizz should have just told people to fuck off in the first place because no matter what they do a bunch of neckbeards are gonna cry foul about it

[chrisnumbers]

Threads like these are a prime example of why classic servers are going to be an colossal waste of time and why Blizz should have just told people to fuck off in the first place because no matter what they do a bunch of neckbeards are gonna cry foul about it

Too bad. Cry babies will quit and move on. Sound like a good deal to me.