Nonviable specs. Which are they?

[Akka]

You're just playing dumb. I'll help you find the way.

Or rather both concepts are mutually exclusive.

[Deleted]

You're just playing dumb. I'll help you find the way.

He is not playing sadly

[lanesia24]

Sorry, but you can't say "you did it all" when you only did MC and BWL. I actually cleared C'thun and most of Naxx. And I don't even say I did it all.

I haven't played retail for the last 3 expansions, but nothing from BC, Wrath, or Cata could compare the the difficulties of Naxx 40 and the second half of AQ40, except for Ulduar Hardmode.

You'd be hardpressed to find anyone who raided Naxx 40 say anything in the last 6 years has come close.

Yea I cleared most of it too. The mechanics are a joke by todays raid standards. Consider yourself informed. It's not hard. The only thing that makes vanilla hard is the tediousness of it all.

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You contradicted yourself. You said raids werent hard. Then said getting 40 people to do all the mechanics at the same time was hard. So raiding was hard?

What you dont seem to understand is what makes raids difficult is the teamwork aspect of it. All of the gears turning at the right time to fulfill the boss mechanics. This is the exact same in Vanilla as it is in retail. Vanilla was substantially harder because you had double the number of people needing to perform the class mechanics.

You didnt need 8 tanks for 4 horsemen. That just made the fight easier. You could do it with 4 tanks, as the guilds who first cleared them did. You just needed good plYers to pull it off.

So clearly your guild was not good enough.

Legion Mythic 20 mans are not harder. You have less class mechanics, less people to coordinate, more experience to draw from. They are a simple matter of having good enough gear to make the encounter easier, and running through the mechanics of the encounter. (Get out fire, kill adds, push boss dps now, blah blah blah)

No matter what you say, coordinatibg and gearing 40 people is always going to be harder than doing it for 20 people.

This does not even account for the fact that retail classes are much more versatile now. One class can easily switch to fulfill multiple roles. Shadow for 1 fight, holy the next, disc for the 3rd if you want. No druids for battle rez? Thats ok, the hunter can do it with his pet now.

Retail raiding is retarded easy by comparison.

We've seen it all now folks. Content that people cleared 14 years ago is "hard" for some people today I guess. How I couldn't tell you being that everyone knows all the fights and people have already done it all... 14 years ago. The hard part is all the time gating that's put into it. You have to wait for 8 geared warriors for Naxx, and you have to wait for fire resist gear and Ony cloaks for some of the other zones. That's what makes it hard apparently. The mechanics are a joke for the most part. Some of you like your snail's pace gameplay and time gates and spamming your decursive button but I prefer stuff that's a little bit more indepth.

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Okay, so it was both insanely hard due to incredibly punishing number tuning AND faceroll easy to the point people could do nothing and still kill bosses.
I'm a bit lost at the argument here.

Tedious is the word he was looking for.. not hard. Now you should understand. Glad I cleared that up for you.

[AeneasBK]

Every spec is viable.

Only Prot and fury warrior, Frost mage, Combat rogue, Holy priest, Restoshaman/holydin, resto druid, with token hunters for tranq and warlocks for curse of elements are viable and nothing else is.

Anywhere in between those two statements pretty much.

[pateuvasiliu]

There isn't any nonviable spec.

Elemental and Enhancement, which many cry are bad, are actually really solid in PvP.

Every spec has something it's good at. For instance Hunters usually have trouble with Frost mages, so you can go 31/20 ( Beast mastery/Marksmanship ) and use a pet with sprint to shred a mage.

This spec wouldn't be that good in PvE but that's not relevant, the point is that it has a purpose.

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Every spec is viable.

Only Prot and fury warrior, Frost mage, Combat rogue, Holy priest, Restoshaman/holydin, resto druid, with token hunters for tranq and warlocks for curse of elements are viable and nothing else is.

Anywhere in between those two statements pretty much.

Hunters can still do good DPS by the time AQ rolls.

[AeneasBK]

Hunters can still do good DPS by the time AQ rolls.

Right. That would fall between the two statements I made.

It's a strong argument that if a spec A is doing 50% MORE damage than spec B, spec B is NOT viable. Your image seems to show top DPS doign 50% more than that hunter.

Don't get me wrong, tranq shot is a required ability pretty much. But it isn't spec related And you can't have a raid with JUST rogues as DPS in it.

[pateuvasiliu]

Right. That would fall between the two statements I made.

It's a strong argument that if a spec A is doing 50% MORE damage than spec B, spec B is NOT viable. Your image seems to show top DPS doign 50% more than that hunter.

Don't get me wrong, tranq shot is a required ability pretty much. But it isn't spec related And you can't have a raid with JUST rogues as DPS in it.

Keep in mind those groups are tailored for melee DPS, what with Windfury and Trueshot Aura. If Hunters had groups made for them, as in they went Survival with 1 Trueshot and 1 Agi totem they'd be much higher.

I would say if you put Warriors + Rogues + Hunter + Shaman in one party and

Hunters ( SV ) + Marksmanship Hunter + Shaman in one party and made sure the pets are buffed and don't die Hunters can out DPS Rogues and Warriors.

[AeneasBK]

Keep in mind those groups are tailored for melee DPS, what with Windfury and Trueshot Aura. If Hunters had groups made for them, as in they went Survival with 1 Trueshot and 1 Agi totem they'd be much higher.

My personal opinion on the matter is that pretty much every spec is viable but you might struggle if you have too many boomkin, shadowpriests, elemental shaman, or retribution paladins as your dps; because the encounters in vanilla really aren't nearly as difficult as people like to pretend and are generally balanced around taking 4-5 minutes or longer for end of raid ones; and not the 30 seconds or even shorter that they are mostly destroyed in by the moderately veteran private server crowd... Unless Blizzard screw with the balancing; there isn't a very good reason other than "I want to farm my epics for 30 minutes a week then do other stuff, rather than 4 hours" to not build your raid around who you most enjoy playing with.

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I would say if you put Warriors + Rogues + Hunter + Shaman in one party and

Hunters ( SV ) + Marksmanship Hunter + Shaman in one party and made sure the pets are buffed and don't die Hunters can out DPS Rogues and Warriors.

I would say there would have to be a very noticable difference in the skill of the warriors/rogues and the hunters for that to happen. But as I outlined above; I don't personally think min/maxing to that extent is particularly necessary in nearly all of Vanilla WoW.

[pateuvasiliu]

My personal opinion on the matter is that pretty much every spec is viable but you might struggle if you have too many boomkin, shadowpriests, elemental shaman, or retribution paladins as your dps; because the encounters in vanilla really aren't nearly as difficult as people like to pretend and are generally balanced around taking 4-5 minutes or longer for end of raid ones; and not the 30 seconds or even shorter that they are mostly destroyed in by the moderately veteran private server crowd... Unless Blizzard screw with the balancing; there isn't a very good reason other than "I want to farm my epics for 30 minutes a week then do other stuff, rather than 4 hours" to not build your raid around who you most enjoy playing with.

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I would say there would have to be a very noticable difference in the skill of the warriors/rogues and the hunters for that to happen. But as I outlined above; I don't personally think min/maxing to that extent is particularly necessary in nearly all of Vanilla WoW.

Consider that our hunter was pulling 240ish DPS and our melee were having 300, while melees benefitted from Windfury and Trueshot aura from the hunter.

If that hunter was Survival with a Trueshot in his party his DPS would grow quite a bit, then add in an agility totem which is another big boost and add in a pet that's buffed and kept alive.

He'd definitely beat the melees.

This is BWL, though, once melees get their AQ items I think it's a done deal.

[Deleted]

It depends when. In 1.1 survival spec is arguably worst in the game for all aspects of it.

In 1.12, with 450+ agility it's stronger than MM in raids.

All classes go through that to a degree too.

[Akka]

Tedious is the word he was looking for.. not hard. Now you should understand. Glad I cleared that up for you.

"insanely tight number tuning" doesn't translate into "tedious", I'm afraid.

[Specialka]

Sorry but it does, because it means farm more gears for tanks and healers = Tedious.

[Aliven]

Nearly every "non-viable" spec still has a niche.

Sometimes a spec may be less desired, but for the most part you'll be able to play what you want.

Sure. And stand like idiot with zero mana as a boomkin after 1 min when every mage has mana for 6 min fight. I mean, you are chicken so probably not the brightest on the raid.

[Altariaz]

Nonviable specs. Which are they?
Are there still a negative stigma attached to some of the specs or people have changed their attitude towards some of them?

Why are you supposing there are nonviable specs in the first place?

[Aliven]

Why are you supposing there are nonviable specs in the first place?

Well because it was a fact in a period between releasing wow and releasing TBC. Even in TBC some specs were undertuned but at least they could be viable.

[Goondicker]

Sure. And stand like idiot with zero mana as a boomkin after 1 min when every mage has mana for 6 min fight. I mean, you are chicken so probably not the brightest on the raid.

Please note I said nearly.

[Aliven]

Please note I said nearly.

Oh really? Then what is the purpose of disc priest? Elemental Shaman? Retribution/Protection Paladin? Shadow Priest? Feral Druid?

[kamuimac]

Nonviable specs. Which are they?
Are there still a negative stigma attached to some of the specs or people have changed their attitude towards some of them?

everything besides : mage,rogue,warrior, holy priest , holy pala, , + 1 warlock for buffing mages and 1 hunter for tranq shot , maybe resto druid for innnevervating realm healers in raid , 1 shaman for windfury totem .

other specs/classes are completly usless dont bother wasting time leveling them you wont get invited to any parties and if you will try forming them nobody will join as they will look for realm tank/dps/healers.

everything else gan gtfo

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Oh really? Then what is the purpose of disc priest? Elemental Shaman? Retribution/Protection Paladin? Shadow Priest? Feral Druid?

to ba a non playable laughtingstock .

garbage specs are garbage - its not 2004 when nobody knew better - now people know and will avoid them like plague.

[Storfan]

For raiding for most of vanilla:

Top tier hybrid specs
* Restoration (Druid)
* Holy (Paladin)
* Disc/Holy (Priest)
* Restoration (Shaman)
* Arms/Fury (Warrior)
* Protection (Warrior)

Viable hybrid specs
* Feral (Druid)
* Shadow (Priest)

Crap hybrid specs
* Balance (Druid)
* Protection (Paladin)
* Retribution (Paladin)
* Elemental (Shaman)
* Enhancement (Shaman)

24/0/27 Balance/Resto-hybrid with Natures Grace and Moonglow is incredibly powerful for druids.

[Aliven]

everything besides : mage,rogue,warrior, holy priest , holy pala, , + 1 warlock for buffing mages and 1 hunter for tranq shot , maybe resto druid for innnevervating realm healers in raid , 1 shaman for windfury totem .

other specs/classes are completly usless dont bother wasting time leveling them you wont get invited to any parties and if you will try forming them nobody will join as they will look for realm tank/dps/healers.

everything else gan gtfo

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to ba a non playable laughtingstock .

garbage specs are garbage - its not 2004 when nobody knew better - now people know and will avoid them like plague.

Locks are decent. Worse than mage but everything was worse than mage. But infinite mana is infinite
People knew that. In raids you saw 4 colors in dps meter.