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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayon View Post
    We're calling it Classic'+' now? rofl
    I don't know what "we" call it, but Classic+ is what I've seen people on this subforum call it when someone comes along to say "I want Classic... with these additions that weren't part of Classic!".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pull My Finger View Post
    Oops, something's wrong with your graph, apparently the Legion numbers got cut off, lol

    You will need to do better, dreamboy.
    No use.

    Their kind are convinced that WoW manages to stay a billion-dollar enterprise on fewer active players than 2 million or whatever fantasy figure they've made up.

    They also enjoy the logical fallacy of believing that the tides didn't turn once Blizzard turned around and gave us the opposite of what made WoD lose so many subs... You know, despite there having been a new expansion release + very regular content releases.

    The BfA Cinematic has garnered 9.1 million views in 1 month, the figure of a struggling title for sure.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2017-12-15 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #122
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    I think that was probably one of the reasons they went to the system from MoP.. I remember if you wanted to redo your talents in vanilla you had to go back to the trainer to unlearn your talents then remember what went where to the part you wanted to change..
    It was easy to know what to change to, but for some of my classes my Raid, PvP and Instance Specs were all different. I knew exactly what points to spend, but paying 30+ gold 2-3 times a day in Vanilla was just frustrating.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    It was easy to know what to change to, but for some of my classes my Raid, PvP and Instance Specs were all different. I knew exactly what points to spend, but paying 30+ gold 2-3 times a day in Vanilla was just frustrating.
    Yeah exactly especially since if one didn't play the AH it took a long time to gain money that had to go towards buying spell ranks as well as repairs and so on.. Back then it didn't rain gold like it does now, so when saving money for a mount it took a hella long time.. I remember getting my first gold and thought I was rich.. lol

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, forcing players to pigeonhole themselves into doing one thing is such fun and interesting game design.
    It is. It leads to making choices that really matter, specializing and becoming very good at one aspect of the game, needing to work with other players that have specialized in other things to achieve bigger goals. All those make the game interesting. "Everyone can do everything, without being 'pigeonholed'" is completely uninteresting to me. You're free to disagree of course, and modern WoW will still be there for you to play.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Why cant there be some sort of compromise in between? Also, your logic of "casual-pleb crowd from cata and onwards want" is objectively false. There are many of us *GASP* myself included who started the game during *GASP* vanilla who want *GASP* some QoL features in *GASP* Classic WoW.
    You think you want QoL-changes, but you really dont.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    It'll be quite entertaining to see, once/if Vanilla finally launches, all the people who were crusading against stuff like dual specc suddenly complaining for it once they realize how hard it is to get groups for pre-50 dungeons because very few people will level in tank and healing speccs.
    That simply wont happen. Besides, you dont actually need to be protection to tank anything when lvling up, same with healing.
    “Listen... Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.” – Dennis

  6. #126
    ''each class had one viable specc''
    ''we need dual specc''
    These two don't go hand in hand.
    Patch 1.12, and not one step further!

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    ''each class had one viable specc''
    ''we need dual specc''
    These two don't go hand in hand.
    Yeah they do. But if you play a healer PvE farming will be horrible. If I play a PvE spec then when I am forced to World PvP or want to do a BG I need to respec or gimp my team. This in turn hurts PvP as PvE people don't respec for BGs, they just go in their PvE build and drag down their team.

  8. #128
    Raided as restoration, pvp/farm/fun as ele/enhance. Spent 100-200g a week swapping between them. Even kept respeccing my lock alt through leveling because the different specs provided interesting gameplay. Not bothered. In fact I'm quite convinced dual specc in classic will significantly reduce the excitement of experimenting with different specs.
    I also think the person arguing it would have a profound effect on the general economy is spot on.

    I think in general people should be careful claiming they represent masses. It would probably also be advantageous if people didn't discard other people's opinions just because the other person has a different angle or perspective.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by restokrek View Post
    Raided as restoration, pvp/farm/fun as ele/enhance. Spent 100-200g a week swapping between them. Even kept respeccing my lock alt through leveling because the different specs provided interesting gameplay. Not bothered. In fact I'm quite convinced dual specc in classic will significantly reduce the excitement of experimenting with different specs.
    I also think the person arguing it would have a profound effect on the general economy is spot on.

    I think in general people should be careful claiming they represent masses. It would probably also be advantageous if people didn't discard other people's opinions just because the other person has a different angle or perspective.
    It would have no effect on economy, if anything it would be beneficial. You spending 100-200g a week are a very rare exception. The majority of people don't even farm 200g a week, much less spend them on respecs.

    The point is that dual spec would help those that are already farming like crazy and promote people to play both PvE and PvP with the appropriate spec, in turn making BGs more competitive. It also promotes farming as 1000g is not easy to make in Vanilla.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Yeah they do. But if you play a healer PvE farming will be horrible. If I play a PvE spec then when I am forced to World PvP or want to do a BG I need to respec or gimp my team. This in turn hurts PvP as PvE people don't respec for BGs, they just go in their PvE build and drag down their team.
    So what you're saying is that different specs are viable for different tasks? Kind of how the pure dps class hunter, benefit greatly from BeastMaster talents while leveling, but suffers sustained damage in groups for it.

    Introcuding dual specialization defeats the entire purpose of having a system, designed to differentiate players of the same class based on their own individual talent choices. That is why it's called a ''specc'', short for specialization. If you can swap around between two or more specializations at will, they are no longer specializations but loadouts on a 5 second cast timer.
    Patch 1.12, and not one step further!

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    So what you're saying is that different specs are viable for different tasks? Kind of how the pure dps class hunter, benefit greatly from BeastMaster talents while leveling, but suffers sustained damage in groups for it.

    Introcuding dual specialization defeats the entire purpose of having a system, designed to differentiate players of the same class based on their own individual talent choices. That is why it's called a ''specc'', short for specialization. If you can swap around between two or more specializations at will, they are no longer specializations but loadouts on a 5 second cast timer.
    There's no differenciation, that's the point. If hunters can only have 1 spec they will all go 2/31/18 until hit capped, then they go 20/31.

    Those 2 are the only good PvE specs for a hunter. Survival is good if your guild builds the raid around hunters, which won't happen.


    If you allowed Hunters dual spec then in addition to that 20/31 spec they could go Survival as an offspec for fights where hunters are grouped together, they could go BM PvP, SV PvP, MM PvP. Countless options. But as long as you get ONE spec everyone will use the cookie cutter spec.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    it doesn't negatively impact the game.
    It's not a question of whether an addition has negative impacts. It's a question of whether an addition has ANY impact.
    If it does, then don't add it.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisnumbers View Post
    It's not a question of whether an addition has negative impacts. It's a question of whether an addition has ANY impact.
    If it does, then don't add it.
    Cool. So we're going with bugged world maps and broken C'thun, yes?

    Wait let's make it better, dungeons are now 40 man.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Cool. So we're going with bugged world maps and broken C'thun, yes?
    Yes, remember how C'Thun was fixed in vanilla?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Wait let's make it better, dungeons are now 40 man.
    wut........

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisnumbers View Post
    Yes, remember how C'Thun was fixed in vanilla?

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    wut........
    Dungeons used to be 40 man.


    Sure, C'thun was fixed in Vanilla, but that came later, after he was launched. So if you want " Vanilla is Vanilla " then you get bugged C'thun for a month.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Dual Spec is the opposite of casual, that's what you purists don't get. No one spent 1000g on respecs in Vanilla, are you nuts?
    Lol. Yeah, no. Definitely not true. I spent that much every two months probably. Assuming gold decay on respect wasn't in vanilla; I don't remember.
    You played on a private server so you get to tell everyone how it is without having a clue, and claim to be in a 'competitive pve guild' yet they have yet to start aq40. You must realise how this comes off, right?
    I did both pve and pvp, and I respecced at least 2-3 times per week, sometimes even when I wanted to run 1-4 dungeons. Which is probably why I never had enough gold for an epic mount of my race vendor, but I had the rank 11 one and was a warlock so I didn't have to buy the first one, so I had that going for me.

    Or are you saying dual spec would be 1000g? Then you are drawing faulty assumptions, since it was 1000g in the expansion it was introduced, given inflation it is more likely to be 200g.

    And either way, I wouldn't want it in classic if it cost 5000g, 200g or was free. Respeccing, especially an expensive one, was an experience we only had in vanilla. (due to tbc inflation, albeit smaller than subsequent expansions)
    Dual spec is something I would definitely not want to be in classic.

    You convenience people, please stop ruining this just because you are lazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Storfan View Post
    That simply wont happen. Besides, you dont actually need to be protection to tank anything when lvling up, same with healing.
    Yeah, and if you were protection before the revamp, you likely got a few giggles, since other specs were better at holding threat.
    No one levelled protection or expected you to be protection for RFD, Geeze. You expected your healer to be either ret, shadow or feral.
     

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    you get bugged C'thun for a month.
    I'd like to see the reiteration rolled out on an equal timeline as the original.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisnumbers View Post
    I'd like to see the reiteration rolled out on an equal timeline as the original.
    I would absolutely love that alas doubtful they will replicate it. So, I'm ok with 1.12 or whatever version of Vanilla is decided upon.

  19. #139
    Bloodsail Admiral Moxal's Avatar
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    I'm sure I'll be mocked for this, but dual spec is really the only retail feature I'd like to see in Classic that wasn't in classic. -shrug-
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  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    There's no differenciation, that's the point. If hunters can only have 1 spec they will all go 2/31/18 until hit capped, then they go 20/31.

    Those 2 are the only good PvE specs for a hunter. Survival is good if your guild builds the raid around hunters, which won't happen.

    If you allowed Hunters dual spec then in addition to that 20/31 spec they could go Survival as an offspec for fights where hunters are grouped together, they could go BM PvP, SV PvP, MM PvP. Countless options. But as long as you get ONE spec everyone will use the cookie cutter spec.
    In raids, yes. But the other two hunter specs were better at the other aspects of the game (leveling and PvP) and picked when doing those. That is what the class design was meant for and why dual spec isn’t really a good idea.

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