"go play retail then" is getting old

[Linkedblade]

People need to realize that Vanilla and Classic are two different things.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Old or not, saying this is just ignorance and tells me that you don't actually care about this being as successful as possible.
"retail" does not resemble Classic at all. In any way. Just because some one thinks making small changes to Classic does not mean they prefer it to be legion.

Essentially any time I see some one say that I know that they are not committed enough to this game or this community to matter enough to discuss things with.

[pateuvasiliu]

It's WoW Classic. Therefore it's presumed that what you want is CLASSIC. That means without LFD, without transmog, without new models, without aoe looting, without dual spec. That's the whole point.

That's so fucking stupid. How do new models influence the game?

inb4 some nerd comes telling me characters looking like shit is part of the immersion

[Zylos]

People need to realize that Vanilla and Classic are two different things.

...the argument is that they shouldn't be.

[Hitei]

"Game-breaking" comes out as an argument on both sides when people don't have a good argument to make.

Here's mine: It's not about whether or not those things are game-breaking. That doesn't matter. It's about preserving a memory of a very great game in its more-or-less original state. That does matter. It's a piece of history.

Sure, if that were actually a thing. But it isn't anywhere close to its "more-or-less original state" at all. It's original state was shitty servers constantly going down and frequently being unplayable for days after patches, rampant bugs, constant balancing and systems changes, and the entire experience was the way it was because information was scarce and most people playing the game had zero idea what they were doing.

You guys are chasing something that doesn't exist. Pick one or the other. This "It's a piece of history but also please change the game drastically to improve playability, security, stability and the over all quality of the experience, and also we're going to play with a completely different attitude, level of skill and knowledge and general approach!" attitude is pure nonsense.

I'm sorry but your logic is just flawed on an objective level. Server improvements and game-breaking bug changes are way, way more of a change to the gameplay of Vanilla wow than transmog, AoE looting, or the original form of dual spec.

[Eapoe]

Anyone else notice this thread completely devolved into "classic vs retail" again, and not a single person asked if OP even plays retail? OP mentions QoL changes and immediately that person is the hated retail player.
As far as some QoL changes, why not? Why not let Warlocks keep farmed shards when they log out? Why not include AoE looting? Are these things so against vanilla that it wouldn't completely remove you from the experience?

[Joti]

Do you know anything. Blizzard wants those 90K players back. By becoming thieves and stealing Blizzards property, these 90K players have essentially forced a multi-billion dollar company's hand and give them what they want. Pfft Badtailers. Taking credit and being entitled since 2007.

Yes you all are the Robin Hoods of the World of Warcraft. Playing a game for free using pirated code is a noble sacrifice that we should all acknowledge. Well, for my part, thank you for your service.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

They've already said "Vanilla is Vanilla". The only debate is which version, i.e., how far into Vanilla will they start.

[jontunnel130]

It doesn't make it Classic anymore. It makes it Classic+, and people asked for Classic.

At the end of the day when Blizzard came out and announced "classic" they referenced vanilla...they didnt announce a vanilla relaunch.
Classic will be its own thing. I'm assuming that means ease of introduction and maintaining on blizzards part.
What THEY want to ultimately add or delete is up to them. Arguing semantics like QoL and group finder additions is irrelevant. Getting all squanched up about some theoretical hypothetical is nonsense.
And they said they will "try" to make it as close to the original experience as possible. Which in short is a security blanket they can wrap themselves in when people whine about the current state of "classic".
I for one dgaf. I will at the very least check out whatever version of classic goes live, or re-live lol. But in all honesty I would be more excited about a TBC re-release.

[Linkedblade]

...the argument is that they shouldn't be.

There is no way Blizzard could release a copy of the game exactly as it was in (pick a year or patch). Apparently it will not be vanilla if there are any changes made. Blizzard already said there will be changes made. Therefore, Vanilla and Classic are two different things.

[Heladys]

People need to realize that Vanilla and Classic are two different things.

Right. Vanilla was vanilla with original bugs. "Classic" will be vanilla with gamebreaking bugfixes added. It's very simple.

[LiiLoSNK]

I want to wall jump.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

"but they promised me!"

*no promise was ever made*

Sound logic.

You think we said it.. but we didn't..

[Deleted]

Well I'm a wrathbaby that lost his home because of the Cataclysm. I didn't return to WoW until Legion then quickly ran off to a vanilla private server.

If a lot of people like both games and not necessarily both; why should they influence each other? I mean the amount of players that have played all content is low.

If everything is left pretty much as it was; even a person who started in Wrath or later can experience the same type of memories people made in 2004. Or even things like the opening of the dark portal or the day that group finder came out.

People say the gaming community has changed. No. The WoW community changed at some time. The type of person that liked WoW in 2004 didn't just stop playing games. (I will be playing AoE, Sims 2 and WC3 when I'm 40)

[Protean]

It's WoW Classic. Therefore it's presumed that what you want is CLASSIC. That means without LFD, without transmog, without new models, without aoe looting, without dual spec. That's the whole point.

Classic, not vanilla.

It's about creating a close enough authentic experience, not recreating a childhood. There's absolutely zero chance they are willing to go back to the old days of manual support tickets, so right out of the gates you will not have WoW Vanilla. It's Classic.

[Zyky]

That isn't representative of the average player in vanilla. You're talking raid-centered guilds, which even to this day still only represents a vast minority of the playerbase.

You should never, EVER base every design decision around a minority.

The reality is, the MAJORITY worked towards raiding, be it casual or serious. That isn't a minority. Even casual guilds had people swap in and out for more healers or more tanks.

[Jtbrig7390]

The reality is, the MAJORITY worked towards raiding, be it casual or serious. That isn't a minority. Even casual guilds had people swap in and out for more healers or more tanks.

Got proof of this?

Because blizzard has said different many times, Raiding and raiding related shit has always been a minority.

[Deleted]

Even if your main goal in vanilla was to raid as much as you could, it would be pretty much impossible to spend more time in game raiding than exploring the world.

For example, it usually takes longer to travel to Onyxias Lair than to clear it(one boss instance)

[MyndZero]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

If you don't want classic, as it was then, and exactly that, because blizzard has even said that's EXACTLY what you're getting, then 'go play retail then' is pretty friggin accurate.

Don't like what Classic or Retail is offering you? Then go play another MMORPG. It's pretty damn simple.

[Protean]

...the argument is that they shouldn't be.

Our argument is that there is absolutely no way they can be the same. And the moment you say "close enough" we're just talking about different tolerances to changes.


Just playing with a multi-button mouse, on a 4k/HD monitor, or with good internet is going to make your experience vastly different.

- - - Updated - - -

If you don't want classic, as it was then, and exactly that, because blizzard has even said that's EXACTLY what you're getting, then 'go play retail then' is pretty friggin accurate.

Don't like what Classic or Retail is offering you? Then go play another MMORPG. It's pretty damn simple.

They never said that.