"go play retail then" is getting old

[ComputerNerd]

You are playing a logic that can go in circles forever. Does not really prove anything, except of that of its insignificance and if its insignificant (and optional such as new character models toggle) then why not? What harm is there in adding (improving?) the game in such tiny ways? Why does there have to be a line drawn so fervently here?

I personally care very little one way or the other about this topic and Classic servers (contrary to what others have assumed thus far), I am just trying to wrap my head around the logic the people who say ''retailer'' are using.

There is nothing wrong with that logic.
Someone can't argue that an inclusion is both important and not at the same time.
If someone must as you say "fervently" defend the addition, then that shows that its impact is greater than they say it is.
It proves they are lying, and that is important when it comes to trying to replicate the original experience.

And on "retailers"
The same logic used by those who call someone else fanboys, casuals etc.
An arbitrary distinction that defines them as superior by their own measures, demanding that we recognise that superiority.
They demand respect and recognition instead of doing something that earns it.

[Speaknoevil]

You know what else is getting old? People complaining about people complaining about the damn changes.


Why even invade a thread with a subject you think is getting old? Nobody forced you to click in here, or write a reply.

Move the hell along.

Because if we let you sit in a circle and put your hand in the pants of the person on your left then you might walk away from the experience thinking you are right about something, anything.

[Akka]

I've played through the classic experience several times since vanilla and I can without a doubt say that having some new features would improve the vanilla game without ruining it:

Your opinion, not mine.

1 AOE loot would not be a problem for me.
2 Dual spec would be welcome because I would like to heal dungeons while leveling but it is literally impossible to level as a healer in a reasonable time in vanilla. You could keep a cost of respeccomg but reduce it somewhat because 10 gold is an enourmous amount while leveling in vanilla.
3 I'm still debating with myself if I would like to see working meeting stones or not. Having them work would shrink the world but they are so out of place when they just stand there.

I also disagree with everything written here.
Also, it's just plain false that it's "impossible to level as a healer in a reasonable time" (not only it's very obviously false because we DID have healers, duh, but I also leveled a priestess and it wasn't even particularly painful).

[Atrea]

This continues to be a pointless morality discussion.

Every person's sense of 'right' is inherently self-centered. You can witness this behaviour in practice with your own personal beliefs; they are custom-fit to you, so that all of the things that you think are 'wrong' are things that you either a) don't do or b) lie about not doing. Things that you enjoy but others may find objectionable are rationalized by your own set of exceptions. In some individuals, these exceptions only exist for themselves, but not others.

That's what is happening here. Everyone has their own vision of what Classic WoW should be; and you aren't going to convince them that it shouldn't be that way.

[Noxina]

i agree transmog breaks the game

dual spec doesn't. When it was released, it was welcomed by EVERYONE.

What?

Transmog ruins the game, a feature that brings ZERO to the actual gameplay, but dual spec is ok? You literally lost this whole thread in your second post mate. Well, actually in your original post.

Go play retail.

[Lewtorz]

Gonna catch some heat for this but I loved classic, the only thing i think they should change is the UI. anything that people NEEDED or USED and addon for anyways should be added to the game, ex: cast bars, focus target better buff and debuff detection etc.

[Aggrophobic]

Nobody cared about your gear. Female troll in panties and bra bring more attention that bilion of idiots who thing they clow fiesta of a gear mattered.

- - - Updated - - -



People didnt change spec in vanilla because each class got maybe ONE working spec. And for some it was healer. Or nothing.

- - - Updated - - -



It wont be the game you remember because our brain create memories than never ever happend. Like your childhood memories. Also, you wont have the same feelings. Nostalgia is also a bitch when confronted with reality.

Nostalgia is what the classic idea lives on though. If the game is not as you remember then no amount of "small changes" will help it.
It will just be a poor verion of retail.

The idea was to recreate vanilla not some frankensteins monster version that no one will like.

[Hitei]

Not in the quote you posted but in other posts in this thread and elsewhere I've been pretty clear that whatever flavor of vanilla they choose they should draw the line at not including anything from Burning Crusade or later. I think that's a fair if vague definition. Personally I'm not going to get into epic arguments with anyone about 1.3 vs 1.12 or anything like that. My personal favorite place to start is probably 1.12 but I'll be fine with earlier or a mix of things if they like.

But anything that was added in BC or later should be off the table.

Just so we're clear.

It's such an arbitrary line.

Like I said, improved server stability, performance and bug fixes are all things that drastically change gameplay and many of them were not included until after BC.

Vanish was broken for rogues until Wrath. It was a defensive cooldown that would sometimes just flat out not work, because of swing timers, because pets loved to just ignore it happening, or just for no reason at all, the spell would go off and the rogue would be instantly knocked out of stealth and then vanish would be on CD.

Should that be fixed? The changes that make vanish reliable are wrath changes, not vanilla changes. It is a class ability that is just fundamentally broken because of poor design. Fixing it would greatly insure that rogues can get away more reliably, because their defensive CD would not just be wasted by pure RNG causing it to bug or not function.

That (whether rogues can reliably vanish or frequently have a CD simply not function) is a far more massive change than allowing people to toggle new player models for themselves.

Whether AV battles lag when you get into those 30+ vs 30+ battles near IWB, IBT and the field of strife, or whether they work perfectly is a massive change to the game not present in Vanilla wow. Being able to sit back and channel AoE, and then knowing immediately when someone hits you because there's no delay or awful frame rate is a completely difference experience from being stuck in a choppy fight where you could very well be half health by the time the spell hit registers on your screen.

Fixing that sort of lag is a much bigger change to gameplay than people transmogging out of their BiS into nicer pieces from lower level dungeons. Neither one is from Vanilla, both are products of post BC advances.

Do you see what I'm getting at? This isn't Vanilla, on a core level. It already has BC+ influences. It's running on Legion's server tech, with 2017 physical servers, and everyone has computers that are probably more powerful than what they were playing in 2004-6 by several times. It's being approached with knowledge gained from 12 years of playing this game, and the crowdsourced information of the entirety of Vanilla and a dozen years of private servers.

It's silly to worry about where a feature is from instead of what that feature does.

Does it impact gameplay seriously? Probably don't add it. Does it wildly change balance? Probably don't add it. Does it mean you click once on a corpse instead of shift clicking three times? Up in the air, but probably not a big deal. Does it mean that a guild can just collectively pool resources from a main city's bank, instead of mailing everything to an officer's designated level 1 guild storage alt? It's probably a reasonable idea since you're doing the same thing but the added step of clicking on a mailbox instead of a bank vault. Is it purely cosmetic? It's probably fine.

You're trying to build a historical model out of non-historical pieces and then saying other non-historical pieces don't belong there.

It's like trying to re-trace the Oregon trail as a historical reenactment while you carry around a GPS system and a handbook on nature and survival, in a water-proofed wagon full of freeze-dried supplies... and then complaining when someone wants to bring sunglasses or a recently released book to read, because "that's not authentic to the time period!" It's already not an authentic experience. It isn't even remotely close to one.

So why push away things that improve the experience but don't alter it on a fundamental level?

[kyoloco]

i think people want Pristine Servers instead of classic

[Mosotti]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Go play retail then.

[Sastank]

Loot errors? Everything is hunter loot. No error there.

On a serious note, No. Don't ask for "Vanilla" and then ask for numerous modern WoW features and still think you're asking for Vanilla.

A huge part of why Idc about replaying Classic is because I've grown quite fond of all the QOL changes since Vanilla. Cba looting each mob anymore. Respecing. Taking months to level to 60. Etc etc.

[Deleted]

i agree transmog breaks the game.

How does it break the game?

You are advocating dual spec and you say transmog break the game.
Transmog is just cosmetic, dual spec is a huge QoL feature.

[edw]

Why would anyone want those old crappy models, at least they should let an option to enable or disable, the graphics of the game evolved very good over the years.
And about aoe loot, again, it should be let to the player to decide if it wants it or not, so create an option for it, fanaticism is not fun, if a 5% very vocal base want to go back to stone age... be my guest but don't drag the others, there should be options for a lot of things.

[Aliven]

Nostalgia is what the classic idea lives on though. If the game is not as you remember then no amount of "small changes" will help it.
It will just be a poor verion of retail.

The idea was to recreate vanilla not some frankensteins monster version that no one will like.

The idea is to create CLASSIC server not VANILLA one. They even admitted some of rough edges will remain. SOME. Not all.

Point is - it wont be a experience we have due to nostalgia because that thing exist only in our minds which idealize nearly everything.

[Aggrophobic]

The idea is to create CLASSIC server not VANILLA one. They even admitted some of rough edges will remain. SOME. Not all.

Point is - it wont be a experience we have due to nostalgia because that thing exist only in our minds which idealize nearly everything.

No, they actually only talked about what patch to use. Never did they talk about adding or removing features or changing how classes work.
Thats is something you dreamed up yourself.

[Kynario]

There's only three choices:

1. Play retail and current WoW with all it's modern features.
2. Play Classic, with all it's inconveniences and simply put: the way it used to be.
3. Go play on a /set realmlist realm.

Honestly, there's no other way going about this.

[Aliven]

No, they actually only talked about what patch to use. Never did they talk about adding or removing features or changing how classes work.
Thats is something you dreamed up yourself.

They said in direct statement that there will be some rough edges. You are basically arguing with the word of gods.

[Forogil]

back in the day you knew who was who by their gear. I could look across org and be like "oh that's TabbyStew, I'm gonna go /slap him"

Transmog requires you to have the items you transmog to (or access to or ...; if it was specifically against account-wide transmog I could understand that).

So before transmog you could just dress in the desired transmog-gear in org (or just take off the clothes since everyone's favourite transmog seems to be semi-naked); it's not like there is a raid there in Vanilla.

However, the impact of transmog is deeper; even if vanilla would only allow you to unlock transmog-gear for the account it would still influence what contents people do.

[vitor210]

AoE looting doesn't break the game.

And what's with the hate towards transmog? Best thing that evern came to the game, you people want to all dress the same with the boring sets? Transmog should be a thing. There's some leveling gear that looks really good transmoged with other pieces

[mittacc]

Your opinion, not mine.

I also disagree with everything written here.
Also, it's just plain false that it's "impossible to level as a healer in a reasonable time" (not only it's very obviously false because we DID have healers, duh, but I also leveled a priestess and it wasn't even particularly painful).

Err, the "healers" in low level dungeons were specced as dps, might've had a few points in the healing tree which helps with mana off all spells because mana was scarce back then. I should know since I was one of them. No one in their right mind specced healer while leveling. Healing was also more of a team effort. Everyone that could heal would help out if needed.