My HOLY Paladin Needs Help.

[Ishtar]

Hello,

I have a healing paladin in raid that is consistently below the tanks and other healers. Not entirely sure why.

He's new again to healing on his paladin this raid tier, so that could be part of it. But I don't understand. I have never really main'd or played a pally, so any and all help you can provide is great.

Sample Log of Raid Boss

All logs from two nights ago

I don't know if we have any logs for tonight or not. Which is a bummer. But yeah.

*EDIT* Thursday Heroic Night

Here's the toon in question:: Holy Paladin - Tohmara

Thanks for any input.

I'll also add that I am looking for real answers not trolls or people to point out that there's a gem or something missing. Actual healing advice.

Thanks in advance!

[GreenJesus]

The problem is that he is using beacon of virtue. That is really bad in raids. Beacon of virtue is only good in mythic +. He should use beacon of faith or lightbringer in raids if tanks aren't taking a lot of damage. Since he is using virtue the targets that the beacon puts on is completely random and it looks like he is barely healing the tanks with his beacon and is instead mainly healing himself with the beacon.

He should try getting crit higher if possible. 38% is pretty low. 50% is the cap.

join the discord for tons of guides and people that can help.

https://discord.gg/WXwt5a

[Taeldorian]

There’s a ton of reasons. I’m not sure if he logged out after doing mythic+ or something but if those are his talents for raiding then it’s a huge contributing factor to the bad HPS.

1. Devo aura is good in mythic+ but not in raids. It has its niche but sac/mercy are way more powerful. Devo also doesn’t contribute to throughput which automatically brings his heals down a ton. Aura of sac is one of the strongest, if not, the strongest healing cd in the game if used properly. Mercy is fine as well if he doesn’t want to commit to learning sac, but itd be very good if he learned how.

2. Holy prism is an awful choice (both for M+ and raids). It’s random and costs too much mana for the healing it does. It’s not worth it at all. Holy avenger is a much better choice for healing and it adds an extra healing cd which is nice especially when there’s moderate dmg going out and you have no CDs up. It’s only a 1.5 min cd so it can be used a ton. Divine purpose is a good choice for very long fights (such as aggramar, argus, portal keeper, etc) however he’s using the legendary ring so he already has this. The legendary ring (soul) is nice but it’s not going to get great use in normal or even most of heroic. Holy avenger/DP is the way to go.

3. His beacon choice is a bit ridiculous. Virtue sucks in raids because it’s very random, you have no control over who it gets applied to. Faith is always the optimal choice barring certain situations where tanks don’t take any damage or only 1 does. Even then though faith is still amazing. We’re paladins and we’re known for being amazing tank healers due to strong ST heals as well as beacons. Beacon of faith is huge tank healing that he’s missing out on which is no bueno. Virtue has its niche on some fights like portal keeper (solo healing the portals), however that’s only for things like that. Virtue is strong in situations like those but there aren’t that many.

4. I’m not sure how his cd uptime is but I imagine it’s not great. You can use Wowanalyzer to see what his cd usage is like and what he needs to improve on. Cd management is a huge part of Holy Paladin, we have a good amount of CDs that are powerful so using them at the right time is going to be a huge benefit. Holding all of your CDs waiting for something to happen is a pretty bad habit. That doesn’t mean use them every time they’re up but rotating through them is important. For example you don’t need to hold AW for some crazy damage, you can time everything right so you can use AW for moderate damage and have it up again when you know you need it. Same goes for the rest of the CDs.

Overall, there’s a ton of things to improve ranging from talent choices to playstyle. I suggest using WoWanaylzer to help him even further because it tells you what you specifically need to improve on in terms of CD management as well as trinket uptime and such.

[Deleted]

Has this person recently rerolled from tank? He just doesn't know yet how to play Holy Paladin. Wrong talent setups, is 940 ilvl but still runs a raidfinder trinket.

He should for starters go through some guides first.

[Ishtar]

There’s a ton of reasons. I’m not sure if he logged out after doing mythic+ or something but if those are his talents for raiding then it’s a huge contributing factor to the bad HPS.

1. Devo aura is good in mythic+ but not in raids. It has its niche but sac/mercy are way more powerful. Devo also doesn’t contribute to throughput which automatically brings his heals down a ton. Aura of sac is one of the strongest, if not, the strongest healing cd in the game if used properly. Mercy is fine as well if he doesn’t want to commit to learning sac, but itd be very good if he learned how.

2. Holy prism is an awful choice (both for M+ and raids). It’s random and costs too much mana for the healing it does. It’s not worth it at all. Holy avenger is a much better choice for healing and it adds an extra healing cd which is nice especially when there’s moderate dmg going out and you have no CDs up. It’s only a 1.5 min cd so it can be used a ton. Divine purpose is a good choice for very long fights (such as aggramar, argus, portal keeper, etc) however he’s using the legendary ring so he already has this. The legendary ring (soul) is nice but it’s not going to get great use in normal or even most of heroic. Holy avenger/DP is the way to go.

3. His beacon choice is a bit ridiculous. Virtue sucks in raids because it’s very random, you have no control over who it gets applied to. Faith is always the optimal choice barring certain situations where tanks don’t take any damage or only 1 does. Even then though faith is still amazing. We’re paladins and we’re known for being amazing tank healers due to strong ST heals as well as beacons. Beacon of faith is huge tank healing that he’s missing out on which is no bueno. Virtue has its niche on some fights like portal keeper (solo healing the portals), however that’s only for things like that. Virtue is strong in situations like those but there aren’t that many.

4. I’m not sure how his cd uptime is but I imagine it’s not great. You can use Wowanalyzer to see what his cd usage is like and what he needs to improve on. Cd management is a huge part of Holy Paladin, we have a good amount of CDs that are powerful so using them at the right time is going to be a huge benefit. Holding all of your CDs waiting for something to happen is a pretty bad habit. That doesn’t mean use them every time they’re up but rotating through them is important. For example you don’t need to hold AW for some crazy damage, you can time everything right so you can use AW for moderate damage and have it up again when you know you need it. Same goes for the rest of the CDs.

Overall, there’s a ton of things to improve ranging from talent choices to playstyle. I suggest using WoWanaylzer to help him even further because it tells you what you specifically need to improve on in terms of CD management as well as trinket uptime and such.

Thank you. I think I'll ask him about these items and see what he thinks. Any other advice you have to offer or glaring issues that you see?

- - - Updated - - -

Has this person recently rerolled from tank? He just doesn't know yet how to play Holy Paladin. Wrong talent setups, is 940 ilvl but still runs a raidfinder trinket.

He should for starters go through some guides first.

3/10 on the helpful scale. I asked for advice. Not to be told that he doesn't know how to play. While I appreciate your criticism it adds nothing to the conversation nor push it towards a resolution.

He tanks on occasion and as stated in my OP, he is new to HP this raid tier. Previously he main'd a rogue.


- - - Updated - - -

The problem is that he is using beacon of virtue. That is really bad in raids. Beacon of virtue is only good in mythic +. He should use beacon of faith or lightbringer in raids if tanks aren't taking a lot of damage. Since he is using virtue the targets that the beacon puts on is completely random and it looks like he is barely healing the tanks with his beacon and is instead mainly healing himself with the beacon.

He should try getting crit higher if possible. 38% is pretty low. 50% is the cap.

join the discord for tons of guides and people that can help.

https://discord.gg/WXwt5a

Thank you, I appreciate the advice and link. I will go over this with him.

[Byleth]

...of course it does, it's a Holy Paladin :P

On a serious note though, the advice above is really solid. I learned something from that too

[Taeldorian]

Thank you. I think I'll ask him about these items and see what he thinks. Any other advice you have to offer or glaring issues that you see?

Holding back CDs is probably the most important part. He may not even know he’s doing this. Using CDs at a terrible time is better than never using them. Most of our CDs are fairly short (1.5m, 2m, etc) so you can get a lot of use out of them.

Everything else like talents and gear can always be fixed with ease. Learning when and how to properly use CDs is probably the hardest part about the class at least imo.

Use wowanalyzer to check if he is (or tell him to use it). It’ll help him see what he could improve.

I already said this but i just want to emphasize it. You can definitely check out the Paladin discord as well.

[Ishtar]

Holding back CDs is probably the most important part. He may not even know he’s doing this. Using CDs at a terrible time is better than never using them. Most of our CDs are fairly short (1.5m, 2m, etc) so you can get a lot of use out of them.

Everything else like talents and gear can always be fixed with ease. Learning when and how to properly use CDs is probably the hardest part about the class at least imo.

Use wowanalyzer to check if he is (or tell him to use it). It’ll help him see what he could improve.

I already said this but i just want to emphasize it. You can definitely check out the Paladin discord as well.

Here are the logs from our most recent raid night. They were logged, just not uploaded.

Thursday Heroic Night

[Taeldorian]

Here are the logs from our most recent raid night. They were logged, just not uploaded.

Thursday Heroic Night

His beacon healing on most fights is less than mine and we run 2 holy Paladins. That’s not good. He should be taking faith and prioritize healing the raid over the tanks (unless the tanks are getting obliterated) so his beacons can do work. That’s one main issue.

Second, he’s taking holy prism. Not worth it for the mana. Holy avenger will net more throughout then HP.

Aura of mercy is fine but sac will net much more healing if he can practice and use it correctly.

You guys are running 4 heals and only 1 is an Hpally so there’s definitely room for improvement. Wowanalyzer will help a lot.

Link his logs in the Hpally discord section and they’ll probably pinpoint even more stuff or maybe just reiterate.

[Deleted]

Second, he’s taking holy prism. Not worth it for the mana. Holy avenger will net more throughout then HP.

it's rude to tell lies

[Taeldorian]

it's rude to tell lies

What situation is holy prism better than holy avenger or DP?

On farm fights maybe. Other than that you take dp for long ass fights like sisters that are fairly nana intensive and you take HA for an extra throughput cd on fights you aren’t concerned with mana. You can use the Highlords ring to take both so you never have to think about it. Dp is also a throughput talent technically but RNG so not a reliable one.

I guess if you have like 20% haste taking holy avenger isn’t exactly worth it since half of that CD wouldn’t really benefit you as much. Other than these 2 situations I can’t really think of holy prism being even remotely useful as the other 2.

[Deleted]

DP is default, HP is default with Soul.

HA isn't very good outside of KJ type situations.

[Clarius]

DP is default, HP is default with Soul.

HA isn't very good outside of KJ type situations.

it's rude to tell lies

[Deleted]

thank god im the nicest one here

[gobio]

The 34 cast of crusader strike, 8 cast of holy shock (on boss), 15 cast of consecration
As opposed to only 22 flash of light, and no holy light (if I didn't miss it).

That would tell you he is not even attempting to heal that much, or don't find the needs to heal very even. He made the decision not to heal.

[Goonette]

If you're trying to go shock/dawn main, you should look more like this (but with more crit):

area-52/goonette (Can't post links yet)

Not only will you heal more, you'll make better use of that belt *AND* have much better mana utilization. I don't normally go below half mana ever, and that's pushing well over a million raw HPS.
Judge and CS and shock/dawn as much as possible, constantly. Only use flash when someone is really low and you don't think another healer will get a cast off before you.

[Ladyoftheforest]

I can give a few tips.

1. Learn the incoming damage patterns. You will know what spell to use/have ready and pounce when the damage hits. It's also important to know what spell does what, what it's range is, it's cooldown, mana consumption.
2. It's not a bad idea to be an aggressive holy paladin so learn to react as fast as you can or other healers will do your job for you, especially since we're not well equipped to handle aoe damage (outside of aura of sacrifice)
3. Position yourself near the tanks/melee if possible to make good use of the mastery, it gives a free boost in healing. Try to stay as close to a group of people, being isolated will hurt your healing. Also, in raids versatility is a valuable stat that can be as good or better than mastery, it depends on how good your positioning (near the melee) is.
4. It has already been said, but can not be overstated: aura of sacrifice. Learn how to use it. It's a miracle cure for when the whole raid is very low on health, it gives you a second life due to it's massive aoe heal that effects everyone in range. Try to have a cooldown like Avenging Wrath and/or Holy Avenger ready to use in conjunction with Aura Mastery to buff your Holy Shock. When you use Aura Mastery (after AW/HA) try to use as many powerful heals as possible. One Holy shock and a(t least one) Flash of Light is mandatory to use within this window.
5. Try to get the best gear possible that is discussed HERE. STAT priority is also important.
6. Discuss cooldown usage with your fellow healers if it's possible. Sniping heals can be annoying and detrimental to your raid progression.
7. Sometimes you can have too many healers. One healer per 5 members is probably a good ratio. If you still have too many healers then your numbers won't be too good, but that's to be expected.
8. Food, flasks, potions. During progression you can always use a potion of prolonged power just before the encounter starts. If you're not burning through mana at a fast pace you can use another potion of the prolonged power instead of a mana potion.

[Doffen]

Here are the logs from our most recent raid night. They were logged, just not uploaded.

Thursday Heroic Night

It really seems he just think its too little to heal so he rather dps instead. And its nothing wrong with that. DPS while its almost close to no healing needed is very good, and the damage output he has is quite good(his legendary setup is very good for shockadin).

You got 2 resto druids and one resto shaman, and when its little damage going out, those will heal up the raid with their hots and small raidhealing.

On Coven it seems he forgot to heal though, as we can see on the wipes. But then again, did people die because they didn't do the mechanics, or was it because of low healing?

And just to note, holy paladin in normal is quite boring(the first logs you provided) nothing really big to heal, especially not when overgearing.

Sorry for not coming with direct help, though him dpsing quite a bit it's something you need to consider

[Deleted]

I don't normally go below half mana ever, and that's pushing well over a million raw HPS.

that is not a good thing

[Goonette]

that is not a good thing

If I'm on top of the HPS/Healing done meters then it's not really bad either.