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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Thats such zero dimensional simpleton thinking. Par for the course for you.

    The course of history has been altered by what happened. USA withdrawing from the Paris accord and a thousand other examples. Your response? "Wurble wurble". Go post your thoughts on the teletubbies or something, this level of discourse is beyond you.
    You don't know what you're talking about.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    You don't know what you're talking about.
    Elaborate. Because I actually provided an example of the knock on effect of propaganda, you're just spouting one liner simpleton bullshit.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I'll say it again. The most disastrous decade(ish) in American security history was the '1950s', broadly stretching from 1949 to 1961. The US went from far away the world's most powerful country with a nuclear weapons monopoly, to easily it's second most powerful, on the retreat almost everywhere and nearly evicted from Eurasia.

    Fast forward 30 years, and the Soviet Union was dead and the US stood alone.

    China will certainly wrack up victories in their fight against us, just as the Soviet Union did. In the end, it won't save them any more than the USSR, because China, like the Soviet Union is built on a mountain of lies and compromises, and the United States and the free world, is not.

    That is not a statement of faith. That is a statement of fact. When the US fucks up, it course corrects. Sometimes slow. Oftentimes halting. But it corrects. The '1950s' lead to course correction. The Soviet Union made great hay of the Civil rights era, but what was that, but a course correction for 90 years of societal failure son our part? The openness of our system, our democratic process gives us extraordinary resilience and regenerative powers. We change for the better, by openly confronting our failures. This is how you build real strength.

    Authoritarian regimes do not. Responsibility is never had, except to add more items to the mountains of lies. Peoples are never able to rectify the immense contradictions to their political and economic systems. Authoritarian regimes must first defend their existence from their own people and would be challengers to their monopoly on power. They run defense on two fronts. We free peoples do not.

    And that is why China will lose, and Russia will ALWAYS lose. America and the free world's political process allows it to iterate through potential solutions in the form of elections and a legitimate political process that sees power moves into the hands of those given a chance to wield it with wisdom and effectiveness. Absent that, our authoritarian adversaries, for the grand show they put on, only ever drive up the tab of failures and grievances that eventually comes due. They only ever ossify.

    Betting against America in the long term, now and forever, always remains the loser's bet.

    So hope all you like. But in the end, the free world is in every way better, especially morally, than the unfree.
    See, this is the kind of stuff you post that regularly calls into question your not being a nationalistic tool and not wanting a war.

    Seriously. All is missing is a "Why do you hate America" for not agreeing with this war you "don't" want.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    1. Why didn’t we stop them
    2. Why was the public not told until after Hilary lost
    3. Wouldn’t President Obama know it was happening?
    Obama sucked there was 100% no way it could happen before the election. It's amazing how this radical piece of third world garbage can change his tune after good ole Hitlery Clinton lost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And no they didn't hack the election.

  5. #45
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    @Skroe - You are a deranged individual. You should seek help with your "they are out to get us" attitude, before you shoot some "enemy" diplomat, JFK style.
    I genuinely think that you are dangerous.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    1. Why didn’t we stop them
    2. Why was the public not told until after Hilary lost
    3. Wouldn’t President Obama know it was happening?
    Shouldnt conspiracy theories be banned on this site?Russians had nothing to do with it. Trump is a better president and will always be better than Hillary.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by want my Slimjim View Post
    Shouldnt conspiracy theories be banned on this site?Russians had nothing to do with it. Trump is a better president and will always be better than Hillary.
    You also said that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery, so your opinion doesn't mean too much.

  8. #48
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by want my Slimjim View Post
    Shouldnt conspiracy theories be banned on this site?Russians had nothing to do with it. Trump is a better president and will always be better than Hillary.
    Let’s measure how good Trump actually is, in your opinion.

    How good do you think Hillary would have been? Yet, you celebrating Trump simply being better than that? lol

    See, I agree with you on how bad Trump is being. The best his support can even say, is simply being better than someone you consider the worst human being in history. We just disagree on the Hillary part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You also said that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery, so your opinion doesn't mean too much.
    He has his own reddit page, with people mocking his account:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitAmerica...erate_by_soul/

    Reddit is using him to make fun of how stupid Americans are. This guy literally is making Americans look bad...
    Last edited by Felya; 2017-12-16 at 02:43 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Idiots who just skim his posts might think that yeah. If you would have actually read some of them properly you'd know he hasn't advocated for violence towards diplomats or politicians.
    Where did I say that he is advocating for violence towards diplomats or politicians? Nice brown-nosing there, btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    This extends to the hack attacks too, which as you probably know, I regard as offensive as 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. It was our digital Pearl Harbor. The United States, in retaliation, should have it's spies kill any Russian hackers involves or cooperating with the Russian government in their homes, in their beds. Every single one of them. You want to send a deterrent message? Once the US starts killing Russians who engage in Cyberwarfare where they live, you'll see two things happen (1) the cowards will stop cooperating with the Russian government and (2) they'll flee the country, leading to Russian brain drain.
    Yeah, he is not deranged at all. I won't even bother quoting his other gems here on this very forum.

    And he even posted this kind of shit on the official WoW forums... It won't be surprising if he is actually on some sort of FBI watch-list.

  10. #50
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skr View Post
    Yeah, he is not deranged at all. I won't even bother quoting his other gems here on this very forum.

    And he even posted this kind of shit on the official WoW forums... It won't be surprising if he is actually on some sort of FBI watch-list.
    In Russia it’s not called FBI...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    In Russia it’s not called FBI...
    Yes... I wasn't talking about the russian agency...

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skr View Post
    @Skroe - You are a deranged individual. You should seek help with your "they are out to get us" attitude, before you shoot some "enemy" diplomat, JFK style.
    I genuinely think that you are dangerous.
    Due to my life choices, I don't post here (or anywhere outside of a few work-related technical forums) very much anymore, but when I did post here a lot I very frequently disagreed with Skroe (and I still do disagree with him on a many things (often but not always more philosophically than practically): the likely shape of the international geopolitical future, what America's role in the world ought to be, the effectiveness of the US military-industrial complex, and the real nature of American government. But on the issue of Russian interference in the 2016 elections, he is absolutely, 100% correct - the evidence of Russian intelligence interference in the election was definitively discovered, presented, and reviewed by the IT security community back in July of last year, and everything that has come out since (not to mention Trump's own, public, appeal for Russian intervention) only cements the case. The United States got pwned by Russian intelligence in a way that hasn't happened to a major power since Imperial Germany shipped Lenin back to abort the nascent Russian Republic; and it was such a brilliant and thorough job that much of your nation is still busy arguing over whether or not it was attacked at all - to borrow a quote often attributed to Vladimir Ulyanov, "The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them."

    There is always a give and take to international relations, behind the public rules and codified international law, there's a gray area of deniable actions "things not done" but that are nonetheless done to a certain degree, just not in such a way as to be deniable - the Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea was one such example, done with just enough deniability and cutouts (most of whom are now dead, having met with bullet-, knife-, and explosion-shaped "accidents") that the Russians could claim to be doing something less than invading and destabilizing their neighbor. (In retrospect, perhaps if the USA had pushed back harder (not with military force, but other, fairly pointed, uses of soft power) such overt interference in the 2016 elections might have been avoided - on the other hand, something that is both evidence an cause of American decline in the 21st century is the inability to effectively wield soft power.) Along such lines, electoral sparring between Russia and the West has a long history, going back to the early post-WWII Eastern Europe and you will find some very relevant examples - and America is far from innocent, particularly after the fall of the Soviet Union; to take a recent example, the United States was intimately and deeply involved in the revolution that sparked the Ukraine Crisis, but equally so, there was something of a an understanding about how far such interference would go: money, logistical support, and the like, but not pro-active actions (of course, the US was, as usual, drawing lines in its favor by implicitly declaring areas of its own strength as "acceptable" and areas of adversaries strength "illegitimate"); but all semantics aside, hacking into the opposing state's ruling class' databases _and then publicly handing off the information to an extremely sympathetic candidate for executive (as well as undertaking myriad other actions in support, the full extent of which we may very well never know) really should have been too much of a reach, but the US establishment (as is typical of it) was slow to react usefully (motivated in no small part by a conviction that Trump couldn't possibly win) and so you end up with the current disaster. Said disaster being a President of the United States who could arguably not possibly be doing a more effective job as an agent of US destruction, while the United States body public and State (forget Deep State, it's the very government itself that is under siege) struggle to even acknowledge that they were attacked, far less do anything to stop it in the future.


    What's happening in the United States right now resembles a classic Soviet post-WWII operation: get a tool (or tools - witting or not doesn't really make a difference so long as they're doing what's necessary for SovietRussian advantage) in place using the putatively democratic system of government, undermine said system (in terms of both legitimacy and effectiveness), seize power using any useful excuse (often the damage done by the Soviet tools themselves, or by pointing at strong and organized opposition to said tools), then start re-writing the law and using the force of government to benefit those who play ball and punish (up to and including extra-judical murder or formal execution) anyone who tries to stop the decay while rewarding those who do support the regime. The United States at present is particularly vulnerable to such an operation, due to many converging factors (including, but nowhere near limited to destabilization from rapid technological change and the disjunction between propaganda (the USofA is a freedom-loving democracy and the best place on Earth) and reality (the USofA is a some-times benevolent oligarchic economic empire that lags much of the developed world on key metrics despite its power).

    If the United States is going to survive in anything resembling it's present form (something I personally do not care to bet in favor of, as I think it unlikely) it will be because of Skroe and people like him - those who can find a reality-based balance between America's traditions of democracy and liberty, and the post-WWII techno-economic imperium it has become; Trump has hijacked half the mandarin class, is seeding multiple axes of domestic violence and unrest, exacerbates the many problems America faces while weakening it geopolitically on virtually every front, and simultaneously discredited for at least a generation the possibility of real revolution against the increasingly failed status quo political class. And if you get rid of him with anything less than impeccable legal processes, you're just digging your own grave deeper, as the damage done by such a break with the weakened system of legitimate law will likely deal it a mortal wound.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Skr View Post
    Yeah, he is not deranged at all. I won't even bother quoting his other gems here on this very forum.

    And he even posted this kind of shit on the official WoW forums... It won't be surprising if he is actually on some sort of FBI watch-list.
    So let me get this right.

    I want US intelligence agencies to do against the Russian individuals who attack us, what they ALREADY do against the Islamic terrorists who attack us, and have done in the past against the Soviet Union, and have done in the present against Iran....

    ... and that makes me 'deranged'?

    Russia is our enemy. They should be treated LIKE one.

    The West (not just America) needs to remember how goddamn strong it is. We're the strongest people on Earth. When Russia, which is not of the West, or China, attacks us, we need to hurt them back in such a manner to send a deterrent message.

    If we don't, it will keep happening. As it already has.

    The West needs to drop the excuse making as to "why we can't", and get into the fight. We need to not be afraid of our power and weild it to terrifying effect to shape the world to our ends, as we have for most of our history. Or we'll continue to be Russia and China's bitch. Those countries took the initiative when, and only when, the West decided to turn the other cheek to their provocations so many times and so many ways (largely because the elite here profited off of it in one way or another) that they rightly calculated their was no penalty for their adventurism.

    It's past time to remind them that on this planet, the West rules. There is one order. The one the West built after World War II. We need to defend it against these predators by calling them what they are, treating them for what they are and correcting the rot within ourselves.

  14. #54
    Putin blamed the US for releasing the "Panama Papers" to the public. The Panama Papers revealed that Putin had $2 billion dollars in a Panamanian bank account, money that he only could've got through corruption.

    So Putin reacted like a child and attacked the US election process.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    So let me get this right.
    I want US intelligence agencies to do against the Russian individuals who attack us, what they ALREADY do against the Islamic terrorists who attack us, and have done in the past against the Soviet Union, and have done in the present against Iran....
    ... and that makes me 'deranged'?
    Russia is our enemy. They should be treated LIKE one.
    You do understand that will be game where both sides can play?

    And Russian side proven to be more adept in intelligence operations... for every Russian killed you could find Americans dying in "mysterious accident".

    How about targeting top of your technology companies? How fast will you be able to replace them?

    The West (not just America) needs to remember how goddamn strong it is. We're the strongest people on Earth. When Russia, which is not of the West, or China, attacks us, we need to hurt them back in such a manner to send a deterrent message.
    Only you got to find message which, like nukes, will not deal a lot more damage, in absolute terms, to you then to them.

    If we don't, it will keep happening. As it already has.
    Because in truth you literally cannot stop it without dealing greater damage to yourself.

    It's past time to remind them that on this planet, the West rules. There is one order. The one the West built after World War II. We need to defend it against these predators by calling them what they are, treating them for what they are and correcting the rot within ourselves.
    Start with last part; without it you cannot hope to effectively project power outside.

    And good luck with that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Putin blamed the US for releasing the "Panama Papers" to the public. The Panama Papers revealed that Putin had $2 billion dollars in a Panamanian bank account, money that he only could've got through corruption.
    I understand that you are going with eighth-hand information, but what was in Panama papers is that Putin's friend had two billions pass through his offshore enterprise through the years. As in, those money aren't "held" there; he was just intermediary. Could be sanction avoidance by those on personal sanction list, could be financing for intelligence operations abroad, or could be passing through to "Putin's retirement fund" - no way to know with what was released.

    So Putin reacted like a child and attacked the US election process.
    There were plenty of a lot more grave offences by US establishment to invite such response.

  16. #56
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    This was a weird thread. No one is assuming that Russians attacked our election.

    We know it to be true.
    I'm sure you do, which is why after 1 year u are still looking for the evidence you should have provided on day one to support your accusation..


  17. #57
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Arthur Dayne View Post
    I'm sure you do, which is why after 1 year u are still looking for the evidence you should have provided on day one to support your accusation.
    We're looking for evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

    We're not looking for evidence that Russia attacked our election process. Because we already know that to be true.
    Eat yo vegetables

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    We're looking for evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

    We're not looking for evidence that Russia attacked our election process. Because we already know that to be true.
    People "knew" during the middle ages that the earth was flat.

  19. #59
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Arthur Dayne View Post
    People "knew" during the middle ages that the earth was flat.
    Even when you're making a terrible point, you're completely off base.
    Eat yo vegetables

  20. #60
    Deleted
    Uhm, you have provided zero proofs for anything. So, plz take off the tinfoil hat.

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