Mythic + and why you shouldn't expect to get invited with low score

[Deleted]

I mean I link mythic aggramar and tell them to look at my dk's 7.2.5 season rating but all I get is "lol noob mythic + is different to raiding" or " lol I don't care about past season"

It's nice that people give you such an easy to understand suggestion that you wouldn't want to spend time with them anyway, isn't it? So m+ score is working for you, I'd say.
I have a low current season score and it won't change soon as I don't have as much time as I used to. This decreases my chances to be chosen. I am however mainly a tank, so this increases my chances. I'm 950 with dedicated legos and tier, so anyone using MPH will appreciate this kind of information as well. I do experience more declines than I did in 7.3. BUT I take those. If someone can't read all the information available and only uses score to determine if they want to play with me, then I'd rather not play with them - I rather take all the information available, so our world's are not connected and I will happily keep it so.

I am still missing a tool to efficiently blacklist monkeys who destroy my gaming time, so they have less chances to destroy other people's time later.

[Deleted]

I mean I link mythic aggramar and tell them to look at my dk's 7.2.5 season rating but all I get is "lol noob mythic + is different to raiding" or " lol I don't care about past season"

An excellent answer you got indeed. Your PvP achievements mean zilch in M+ and raid progress little enough. If you feel depreciated, perhaps you should try marrying into some royalty instead.

[Matthias]

This tool is somehow gauging how effective I am in a Mythic+. Not sure how the algorithm works, but I normally only do the max required level key for the chest in a pug and I'm done with M+ for the week. This nets me a score of like 300. 70% of the Mythics I've done are Arcways also, but that doesn't make me incapable of doing the others, not like I forgot the mechanics a year into the expansion. So even as a tank I have trouble finding groups.

If this tool came out before the M+ changes where the timer mattered more to get 3 chest, I would totally understand it. But as of now you can really invite anyone whose ilvl is high enough and you should be fine. I personally always vetted DPS checking their logs, which I think is a far better measure of effectiveness.

As it looks now I'm going to have to chain M+ with my Mythic Raider friends like I did earlier in the xpac to pad my score, which I think is stupid. You can easily get carried to good IO score it seems. Where as if you check take the time to check logs and actually see the numbers someone is capable of putting out, it's far better.

[xler]

Why do so many people think its stupid that you need to show experience to get into M+ end game? You guys just want to skip to the end. If you want to skip all the progress dedicated M+ runners did, make your own group.

Do you not vet people trying to join your high end raiding groups? Make sure they have some idea of what the raid entails?

ALL these threads complaining about people using metrics need to be banned.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

What doesn't make sense, what is absolute BS tbh, is people who keep insisting

"Sometimes there are great players who have low scores, so those who have worked hard to get their scores up should nevertheless invite any stranger who applies rather than checking their scores."

I mean, how nonsensical can you get?

[Count Zero]

Despite having a very low m+ score (I typically do mine late in the week), I often get into groups that say they check wowprogress/raider.io. Not always, but often. A lot of those are just a scare tactic, I think. But then, my ilvl is pretty decent and I usually only try to get into groups for the same couple of dungeons that I have done high level keys of, so maybe they are checking and seeing I have experience in the dungeon they're trying to do.

But, my underlying point - to anyone having trouble finding groups, just sign up for those asking for a high m+ score anyway, doesn't hurt to try.

[Matthias]

Why do so many people think its stupid that you need to show experience to get into M+ end game? You guys just want to skip to the end. If you want to skip all the progress dedicated M+ runners did, make your own group.

Do you not vet people trying to join your high end raiding groups? Make sure they have some idea of what the raid entails?

ALL these threads complaining about people using metrics need to be banned.

I don't see Raider.IO as proper vetting, which is my issue. You can easily get carried to a high score. Or pay for one. I personally always checked logs, way harder to fake those.

[Deleted]

This tool is somehow gauging how effective I am in a Mythic+. Not sure how the algorithm works, but I normally only do the max required level key for the chest in a pug and I'm done with M+ for the week. This nets me a score of like 300. 70% of the Mythics I've done are Arcways also, but that doesn't make me incapable of doing the others, not like I forgot the mechanics a year into the expansion. So even as a tank I have trouble finding groups.

If this tool came out before the M+ changes where the timer mattered more to get 3 chest, I would totally understand it. But as of now you can really invite anyone whose ilvl is high enough and you should be fine. I personally always vetted DPS checking their logs, which I think is a far better measure of effectiveness.

As it looks now I'm going to have to chain M+ with my Mythic Raider friends like I did earlier in the xpac to pad my score, which I think is stupid. You can easily get carried to good IO score it seems. Where as if you check take the time to check logs and actually see the numbers someone is capable of putting out, it's far better.

Since you are copy/pasting your notes, let me copy/paste a reply you already got:

Shows you haven't done much M+.

He basically wrote it directly:

Not sure how the algorithm works

So even as a tank I have trouble finding groups.

But as of now you can really invite anyone whose ilvl is high enough and you should be fine.

[Will]

M+ score means literally nothing to me because I never pug M+ (aside from the first few times and it was generally awful). It's just generally a shit experience pugging M+ unless you outgear the key. My score's low but it doesn't mean I'm bad and it doesn't mean I don't know M+ because I know the damn thing inside out.

My score's low because I usually help guildies out and most of them don't care about pushing anything above a 15, maybe the occasional 16. My score is also low because I don't run very many M+, maybe 2-3 a week and usually 1/3rd of all the available dungeons or less each week.

So yeah if I theoretically wanted to pug I'd probably get rejected, and you know what, fine, who cares. Maybe they'll get a high score tank who knows his stuff. Maybe not. I know the tricks. I know exactly the most efficient trash routes to get optimal forces with minimal overshoot. I know every mob and every ability, every patrol, every point that catches people out, and what's worth CCing, where bolstering can be avoided by isolating key targets, etc. You know, little tricks like telling nobody to target pelters so they don't jump, and the fact making aggro then running away/LoSing pelters and breakers completely stops them from doing any abilities to the party.

But yeah, they could get someone who doesn't bother to nerd it out and study half as much as that because he's got a higher score...
... and good for them If you want to truly enjoy M+ try and find a core team, it could be friends, it could be guildies or maybe a mix of the two, and get to know them well, run with them weekly and learn to bounce off each other's strengths. You'll never wanna pug M+ again and you won't HAVE to.

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I wondered how this guys even got a 15 key .....

Case and point. My score is way lower, like 1.2k and yet this guy with a higher score thinks it's smart to pull 2 packs AND a mariner on fortifed/explosive/teeming. Fuck, those mariners are bad enough on their own lol. It's mind boggling that tanks will go into a dungeon with a pug group they don't know the abilities of and recklessly pull an entire room then magically expect stuff to die instantly on a higher key. Yeah you can pull that shit off if you have a personal team/comp that you KNOW you can get away with it, but with a pug on your first pull? Wtf.

[Lazel]

An excellent answer you got indeed. Your PvP achievements mean zilch in M+ and raid progress little enough. If you feel depreciated, perhaps you should try marrying into some royalty instead.

https://www.wowprogress.com/characte...azzak/Lazelina



yes, pvp achievements.

Average m+ player understanding :>

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Why do so many people think its stupid that you need to show experience to get into M+ end game? You guys just want to skip to the end. If you want to skip all the progress dedicated M+ runners did, make your own group.

Do you not vet people trying to join your high end raiding groups? Make sure they have some idea of what the raid entails?

ALL these threads complaining about people using metrics need to be banned.

Mainly because when you link them high end raid achievements which are 500 times harder than doing any key , they hit you up with the "lol noob, dis is m+ not raid"

Like as if I link someone gladiator to queue into skirmish arena and then this guy says "lol noob this is skirmish not actual arena"

[ComputerNerd]

First non troll reply, thx for the input

You dismiss any opposing views as trolling.
No, others rightfully picked fault with the scoring, and showing that it alone is not a useful measure.
Just like item level, if you have to raise it to avoid "bads", then the measure sucks.

The score should only be part of a judgement, not all of it.

[Mirishka]

Hello people on MMO, I have been reading a lot about this lately, and thought i'd give my input.
As a player who run a lot with guild i have obtained a high enough mythic score, that i get accepted into most pugs that want to farm 15-18 keys. I see a lot of complaining about "why are people not taking me into their groups?? I know i am good enough even though i only have 1,3k m+ score and 5 failed +15's on my wowprogress"
If you look from the point of view, from a player that has high mythic+ score, who has been farming a lot to get his mythic+ score up, why should he pick you?

1st of all there is a million dps in queue to pick between, so if you are playing dps without high m+ score you must face that you're never going to get picked for high keys
2nd Why is it you think you are entitled to a spot in a group with people, far superior to you in terms of experience and the amount of work they have put into mythic+? Would you expect to get into master tier games in league, when you are only at silver MMR?
my 3rd and last point, gear is so easily available now, heroic + normal Antorus is a joke, so looking at your 950 ilvl doesn't say much about what we can expect from you. I just now pugged a EoA +15 and it was so painful to get through, even with everyone at 945+, we had a DK who died on every boss because he failed mechanics, tank was squishy as fuck, died multiple times on small thrash pulls, and the warrior was awfull as well.
We barely killed last boss and I think we 1 chested it. With a group of players with high mythic+ score, we will usually 3 chest a key like this.
So yes, in my opinion we do need some way to measure mythic + skill.

I suggest if you got low score, but think you are good at the game, go find a guild or some friends with your own key, and work your skill + experience up this way, that’s how most of us have done it.
I don't expect to get into groups with 2,6k players when I’m only at 2,3k.
Instead I will go play with players who also has around 2,3k and work my way up.
I apologize for bad gramma, but English is not my first language

Any reason this 'input' had to result in yet another topic? As opposed to, you know, replying to the posts in question?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I have a M+ score of 665, rip guess I can't do M+

https://raider.io/characters/us/frostmourne/Yunaqt

Why not? Unless you are determined to only do M+ with strangers who rely on your score to evaluate you. Have you no friends?

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Any reason this 'input' had to result in yet another topic? As opposed to, you know, replying to the posts in question?

If you're going to criticize people for starting new threads on topics that have already been discussed, you could start with the 1001 threads on flying, or the 501 threads about anyone but tanks pulling in dungeons.

Seriously (not really), it's a fan sight for a fantasy computer game. You got something more important to discuss? Like any of this really matters?

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Mainly because when you link them high end raid achievements which are 500 times harder than doing any key , they hit you up with the "lol noob, dis is m+ not raid"

Like as if I link someone gladiator to queue into skirmish arena and then this guy says "lol noob this is skirmish not actual arena"

So what? It's their group; they are looking to share it with a particular niche of players and you're not it. Why do you need to join their group anyway? Are you incapable of running M+ without them?

[Deleted]

The difference between m+ and raids is time. Whilst you can do a mythic boss after 300 or even more wipes sometimes even 1 wipe in a m+ is enough to fail the timer.
Mythic+ score is the easiest and quickest way to judge a character. Sure you can also check his logs as well but not many will do that as it only comes into play if you have 2 of the same class with the same ilevel and score.
I'm an average player to be honest. But i would like to ask you as a party leader why should i choose you? Do you think you are the only DPS the queues? Just because you are a mythic raider or you "only do you 15 for weekly"? Sure thing, please next time when you do Argus mythic please invite me as well as i already did it on heroic.
When choosing a team for M+ its not only the score. It's also the class. Is it fortified? Do we have enough AoE and AoE stuns? Is it tyrannical? How is our ST damage. How many melees we have and how many ranged? Skittish? Maybe not go with 3 melee dps. And so on. Not like in Mythic raids where you can just wipe and wipe till kingdom come and you finally get it right cause.

But people only complain because they are lazy. Honestly it took me 1 day to get a mythic score of 1.8k. One day. Just clear all the dungeons. How many days you waste on raids every week wiping and wiping and wiping.

[Zensunni]

MS is the best metric we have to find other players of similar skill. It's not a perfect system, but it's far, far better than any in-game alternative (Keystone Master lolol?).

Anyone that is salty about this is just lazy and doesn't want to put in the time. I am not a very good player, and I have a 2150 MS early in the season. I reckon any player that isn't just flatout bad can get a 15 on every dungeon, which would result in something like a 2k score - enough to get you into most 15-17 pugs.

If you don't care enough about m+ to accomplish this, then you shouldn't complain about it, end of story.

[Matthias]

https://www.wowprogress.com/characte...azzak/Lazelina



yes, pvp achievements.

Average m+ player understanding :>

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Mainly because when you link them high end raid achievements which are 500 times harder than doing any key , they hit you up with the "lol noob, dis is m+ not raid"

Like as if I link someone gladiator to queue into skirmish arena and then this guy says "lol noob this is skirmish not actual arena"

Lol this is exactly my problem with Raider IO. Slapping a number onto someone because they completed a certain amount of M+ for a given period of time just seems like a poor way to judge ones value. Previously if you were to vet someone you would use WoWProgress (as you just did). I personally prefer checking logs to make sure you weren't carried. etc

My Raider IO score is brutally low since each week I would just try to clear the current raid, then do my 15 for the week (normally Arcway since it has a lot of gear I want).

Suddenly at the ass end of an expansion I'm not good enough.....lel.

[ItsTiddles]

Lol this is exactly my problem with Raider IO. Slapping a number onto someone because they completed a certain amount of M+ for a given period of time just seems like a poor way to judge ones value. Previously if you were to vet someone you would use WoWProgress (as you just did). I personally prefer checking logs to make sure you weren't carried. etc

My Raider IO score is brutally low since each week I would just try to clear the current raid, then do my 15 for the week (normally Arcway since it has a lot of gear I want).

Suddenly at the ass end of an expansion I'm not good enough.....lel.

Luckily, they have the option to copy and paste the link to their raider.io. Which serves the same purpose as wowprogress.
I see people with lack of scores getting into 15s all the time. Are you trying that hard or just looking for groups you deem are good only for them to not reciprocate?

[Hubbl3]

I mean I link mythic aggramar and tell them to look at my dk's 7.2.5 season rating but all I get is "lol noob mythic + is different to raiding" or " lol I don't care about past season"

Even you cannot get into a M+ group these days?! Holy fuck.

I never do any random M+ keys and only go with my friends and do one +15 key per week per Char I'm currently interested in.

[Deleted]

He wiped 3 times. After the first wipe, you just kite them if they are issue. But instead hes bad and tries to blame the dps ppl in his group.

If you complain about Mythic+ Score, its extremely likely that you are a bad player.

Sounds like a foolproof plan - extend the area for orbs to spawn to the maximum with a spriest, retri and warrior. Yeah. Surely dps breaking my CC, NOT focusing one target and NOT taking any notice of orbs are NOT an issue. The glacial mobility of one of them won't be an issue with this tactic. Their utter lack of environmental awareness and coordination was fine.
I am the issue. I rest my case to your superb logic and insight, sir.

And then people complain they have a hard time joining pugs as dps, when even +2k scorers are utter garbage.

[Druitz]

I am playing healer, me score is low because i am doing m+15/16 weekly in monday or even later so its not enough for leaderboards. People dojnt invite me because of low score even if i link them KS master and my current + 15 keystone. I have never failed any keystone run, most are at +2 upgrade.

Anyway +15 is so ez and people require sometimes 2.5k score for +15 that can be done in 940 ilvl

PS: i am 957 ilvl