Doctor Accused Of Spiking Pregnant Girlfriend’s Tea With Abortion Pill

[Deleted]

Abortion is a "special privilege" the man would have if he got pregnant. Everyone knows the options ahead of time. When a woman has sex and gets pregnant, her options are to abort, put it up for adoption, or keep it. Those are the risks and consequences of pregnancy. A man, likewise, has the ability to opt out of unwanted pregnancy at different points in the process--he can abstain, or he can protect himself from sneaky wallet raping women by getting a vasectomy and banking his sperm if he chooses, using condoms with spermicide to be extra careful. We wouldn't even call that irresponsible. A woman dealing with a pregnancy bears 100% of the physical and financial responsibility of aborting or carrying it to term. If she keeps a baby the man doesn't want, she generally has physical placement and financial responsibility--the man (who understood the risks and consequences when they fucked, just like the woman) also has some financial responsibility, for the child's sake, usually a portion of his paycheck if he has one, but otherwise doesn't have to lift a finger to raise the child he helped conceive, which we have deemed fair enough if she wanted the child and he didn't.

If you're terrified women are out for your sperm, take steps to protect your wallet. Instead of whining that women are irresponsible if they abort AND irresponsible if they keep it--the same men who are whining they don't get to have sex 100% consequence free even when a pregnancy results--control what you do with your sperm.

The abortion in of its on isn't the special privilege, the special privilege is being able to decide to become a parent or not, not just for your self, but even for your "partner". The point is that we make up the rules as to what we deem fair, and as of now they just are not fair.

"That everyone knows the options" isn't an argument, its an appeal to authority.

That females bare the physical burden gives them the additional option to have a child when they want, males do not. This is biology and no one besides you is complaining about this. This doesn't give them any other rights or privileges. They are supposed to inform the dad when they give them up for adoption (often in these situations the dad isn't even aware that he got someone pregnant and doesnt even get the chance to become parent), and don't even get me started about "baby hatches", no questions asked if you are a female.

Then you go out and say that it is an actual option for males is to have surgery. So think it is fair that a male must undergo surgery to get the same rights that are granted to females. Your other "suggestion" is abstinence, and that might as well go for females aswell, if you do not want to get pregnant you should not have sex, there is no need for the option of abortion. As having sex was a clear choice that she made and now has to live with the consequences. This is not my actual opinion, but that is exactly your opinion on what a male is supposed to do. The double standards here are very sexist.

Why should someone who doesn't want to have a child and didn't have any choice in the matter bare any responsibility for it? For the childs sake? If you really want "what is best for the child" then it should go up for adoption at birth, as clearly the person that wanted that child could not care for it.

And your final part is an ad hominem, so in conclusion all you have done here is put down an impressive amount of logical fallacies.

[Dezerte]

Not unfair, its just that im not a sexist that gives special privileges to one of the sexes.

So should we ban abortion or not? And if men could somehow abort their impregnation from a woman without infringing on her bodily autonomy I'd be all for it.

On sexism, is it sexist that bra's are marketed towards women and not men? That seems to be your line of reasoning.

See if that is the case then the woman should have given her blessing when she had sex, just like the male now has to. What you are preaching is abstinence, and that is just plainly stupid.

Condoms or vasectomy is a thing. I also hear there might be a pill coming for men as well that renders them temporarily infertile for a few days. Condoms are also great for stopping the spread of venereal diseases.

Now have a look at the nice picture i posted and look up "ad hominem" .

I don't even think I've insulted to you, but if I did it also requires that I used that as an argument (i.e. you are stupid, therefore you are wrong) which I definitely did not. There's this thing called the "fallacy fallacy" - falsie invoking fallacies to dismiss an argument, which might apply to your argument here.

Finally, you preach responsibility but you fail to press any of this responsibility on the female, if she wants to have a child on her own then she alone should be responsible for that decision.

I don't believe that. Let's imagine a world where abortion was not possible, if a woman got pregnant she'd have a responsibility to carry that child to it's birth. And even in our world, where abortion is possible, it's only advisable until a certain point where it becomes too risky for the mother.

Please tell me you see the irony in this sentence. Let me help you "The woman gave her blessing when she allowed herself to be impregnated, that is when she chose to accept the possibility. Have some discipline and take responsibility for your actions." Thus, was abortion made unacceptable to society, because Dezerte boy worked out that double standards are bad. Hip hip horray!

If we pretend that abortion isn't a thing, sure thing.

[Levelfive]

The abortion in of its on isn't the special privilege, the special privilege is being able to decide to become a parent or not, not just for your self, but even for your "partner". The point is that we make up the rules as to what we deem fair, and as of now they just are not fair.

"That everyone knows the options" isn't an argument, its an appeal to authority.

Then you go out and say that it is an actual option for males is to have surgery. So think it is fair that a male must undergo surgery to get the same rights that are granted to females. Your other "suggestion" is abstinence, and that might as well go for females aswell, if you do not want to get pregnant you should not have sex, there is no need for the option of abortion. As having sex was a clear choice that she made and now has to live with the consequences. This is not my actual opinion, but that is exactly your opinion on what a male is supposed to do. The double standards here are very sexist.

Why should someone who doesn't want to have a child and didn't have any choice in the matter bare any responsibility for it? For the childs sake? If you really want "what is best for the child" then it should go up for adoption at birth, as clearly the person that wanted that child could not care for it.

And your final part is an ad hominem, so in conclusion all you have done here is put down an impressive amount of logical fallacies.

You've misused appeal to authority AND ad hominem, but that doesn't really matter. The fact that everyone knows is meant to help people understand that abortion is a known risk and consequence, since people in this thread seem to think "they know the risks" means women shouldn't be the allowed the special privilege of aborting. Again, abortion is one of the known and accepted risks both parties undertake, along with adoption and parenthood. I agree with you that the main complaint is really that women *have the power* to make a decision that affects men for an act in which they both participated while knowing the risks (unfair!), so my suggestion is, do everything in your power to prevent it (hardly ad hominem). And yes, if women were in here carrying on about how men are always getting them pregnant and it's so unfair, I'd tell them to get their shit tied. But the idea that men should be able to opt out of financial responsibility for a child they were happy to help conceive is the height of irresponsibility. If you don't want that to happen, don't let it happen.

[PosPosPos]

So should we ban abortion or not? And if men could somehow abort their impregnation from a woman without infringing on her bodily autonomy I'd be all for it.

Abortion is fine. Blackmailing and gold-digging isn't.

Women can have their bodily autonomy - they shouldn't have special rights to demand that the father has to subsidize the child.

On sexism, is it sexist that bra's are marketed towards women and not men? That seems to be your line of reasoning.

Blatant false equivalence detected.

Condoms or vasectomy is a thing. I also hear there might be a pill coming for men as well that renders them temporarily infertile for a few days. Condoms are also great for stopping the spread of venereal diseases.

Choosing to go for an abortion, or being a decent human being and agreeing to not blackmail the unwilling father is a thing.

Abortions are also great for stopping additional misery caused to the unwanted child.

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But the idea that men should be able to opt out of financial responsibility for a child they were happy to help conceive is the height of irresponsibility.

Just as a woman who insists on unilaterally carrying a child to term she has no financial capabilities to support is the height of irresponsibility. Yet somehow the unwanted consequences only fall on the father, not the mother.

If you don't want that to happen, don't let it happen.

Well said, but the next step should be for hypocrites to acknowledge that it works both ways.

[Levelfive]

Abortion is fine. Blackmailing and gold-digging isn't.

Women can have their bodily autonomy - they shouldn't have special rights to demand that the father has to subsidize the child.

Those are the child's rights--those laws exist for the child, not the woman. Men bearing some financial responsibility for a child they helped conceive =/= blackmail.

Also, to be clear, women have *the same* financial responsibilities to the child--it's not 0 from the mother and 100% from the father. It's the mother + a percentage of the father's paycheck, if it exists.

[Deleted]

So should we ban abortion or not? And if men could somehow abort their impregnation from a woman without infringing on her bodily autonomy I'd be all for it.

On sexism, is it sexist that bra's are marketed towards women and not men? That seems to be your line of reasoning.

I'm all for abortions and most of all choice, i want people to be able to choose what they want to do and not to be forced by anyone into a situation that they do not want to be part off. But apparently this is only something females may have.

And no, you making a strawman is not within my line of reasoning. It is about having a choice about one of the bigger decisions you have in your life, becoming a parent or not, and with whom you want to have this commitment.

Condoms or vasectomy is a thing. I also hear there might be a pill coming for men as well that renders them temporarily infertile for a few days. Condoms are also great for stopping the spread of venereal diseases.

Are you really suggesting here that guys do not want to use condoms as per default or something like that, because, of course people use a condom. Its like the basic thing, i do not want to get someone pregnant and/or get something weird, better wear a condom.
Condoms are not full proof and neither is an vasectomy and that is even if, and thats a big if, they are willing to preform one on you. Young males are often denied this surgery because they are young and might want children later in life, but yea, bodily autonomy.. right!? But anyway, needing to do surgery just because someone might want to have a child from you that you do not want them to have seems pretty weird stance to have in the first place.
And some wonder pill that doesn't exist isn't really all that helpful.

I don't even think I've insulted to you, but if I did it also requires that I used that as an argument (i.e. you are stupid, therefore you are wrong) which I definitely did not. There's this thing called the "fallacy fallacy" - falsie invoking fallacies to dismiss an argument, which might apply to your argument here.

Have some discipline and take responsibility for your actions.

Yea you did..

I don't believe that. Let's imagine a world where abortion was not possible, if a woman got pregnant she'd have a responsibility to carry that child to it's birth. And even in our world, where abortion is possible, it's only possible until a certain point where it becomes too risky.

But somehow you do belief that males should do exactly this, he had sex, deal with it. And abortions are always an option, we do not allow them after a certain point because the fetus would be able to sustain it self outside of the womb at that time. That means another set of rules come into play.
The point is, again, everyone should have the ability to choose if they want to become a parent or not.

[Levelfive]

I'm all for abortions and most of all choice, i want people to be able to choose what they want to do and not to be forced by anyone into a situation that they do not want to be part off. But apparently this is only something females may have.

And no, you making a strawman is not within my line of reasoning. It is about having a choice about one of the bigger decisions you have in your life, becoming a parent or not, and with whom you want to have this commitment.

Stop acting like men have no say in when or whether they become parents. They absolutely do, before conception. After conception, the woman has a say right up until abortion laws restrict her say.

[Machismo]

Abortion is legal, so as of right now women still have that right. Also who do you think votes in the old male law makers?

Women are 51% of the population.

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The case he is talking about is pretty absurd. A teacher raped a 15 year old boy and then he was forced to pay child support for it.

I vividly remember Endus defending the decision, just one of the many reasons I think he's a bad person.

There were multiple cases that popped up, so I wanted to know exactly which one it was. I remember that one rather clearly. I completely disagree with the ruling.

[ParanoiD84]

He should castrate himself then he dont have to worry about that anymore.

[Cien]

jesus christ how can people be so mentally warped?

[Machismo]

Nope, i just told you, she choose to have sex, if she didn't want to become pregnant then she should not have had sex.



Nope, it is you that is sexist, no one is saying that they should get the reproductive rights of a woman, im saying that if she wants a child without the blessing of the dad then she should take care of it by her self alone.

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Yes you did make a strawman, you where on about how how men can not be able to force a woman into anything, and i never claimed that they could or should. That is what we call a strawman, you make my argument into something else and attack that.

Now, trying to convince someone to do something isn't having a say, i do not know where you get the notion that it is. So again, men have zero, nothing, nada and absolutely no say in their own reproduction, you claiming anything but that is just plainly stupid, and most possibly the dumbest thing said on this forum like, ever.



Becoming pregnant is a consequence of sex, if she didn't want to get pregnant then she should not have had sex. That is exactly how you treat men, so why not woman!? That is just sexist!


LOL, oh wait you are serious LOL.



Bla bla bla bla, what this really comes down to is her not taking responsibility. This isn't about me, so again you come up with a logical fallacy in order to try and make a point, this is about having right to choose if you want to become a parent or not.

The man also gave that blessing when he chose to have sex with the woman. Both were willing participants in the action that led to the pregnancy.

[Deleted]

You've misused appeal to authority AND ad hominem, but that doesn't really matter. The fact that everyone knows is meant to help people understand that abortion is a known risk and consequence, since people in this thread seem to think "they know the risks" means women shouldn't be the allowed the special privilege of aborting. Again, abortion is one of the known and accepted risks both parties undertake, along with adoption and parenthood. I agree with you that the main complaint is really that women *have the power* to make a decision that affects men for an act in which they both participated while knowing the risks (unfair!), so my suggestion is, do everything in your power to prevent it (hardly ad hominem). And yes, if women were in here carrying on about how men are always getting them pregnant and it's so unfair, I'd tell them to get their shit tied. But the idea that men should be able to opt out of financial responsibility for a child they were happy to help conceive is the height of irresponsibility. If you don't want that to happen, don't let it happen.

No i did not, apparently you can not understand you own flawed reasoning.

Again, you misunderstand what is being said here, what is being said is that if we treat woman the same as we treat men then a woman should not be able to have an abortion, because she choose to have sex. And that is a stupid stance to have any day of the week for all sexes, but somehow, magically, this isn't the case when we talk about male reproductive rights. They put their penis there, they should be responsible. What ever the fuck that may mean, as someone else choose to have that baby against his explicit whishes. They agreed to have sex, not to becoming a family. You can say that getting a baby from having sex is a thing, but it really isn't ever since we have abortions, since then it has become 100% a choice.

Saying that you know the risks and the rules and thereby proving that they are right is most definitely an appeal to authority, and that is exactly what you are doing.

What exactly is irresponsible about not wanting to take care of something that you didn't want to have in the first place?

If you don't want that to happen, don't let it happen

Now this is just funny, as if these men have any option to not let that happen? You seem to be forgetting that the only ones that have any say in this are females, that is the entire freaking point of this.

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The man also gave that blessing when he chose to have sex with the woman. Both were willing participants in the action that led to the pregnancy.

So woman should not have the ability to have an abortion!? He gave his blessing to have sex, not to start a family. Starting a family is 100% a choice (for as long as she can conceive)

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Stop acting like men have no say in when or whether they become parents. They absolutely do, before conception. After conception, the woman has a say right up until abortion laws restrict her say.

Preaching abstinence isn't "having a say", if a girl doesn't want to become pregnant then she should not have had sex, no need for abortions. This is what you are basically saying here..

Everyone should be free to have a choice in this, why do you not want males to have this choice?

[Levelfive]

Now this is just funny, as if these men have any option to not let that happen? You seem to be forgetting that the only ones that have any say in this are females, that is the entire freaking point of this.

You electing not to exercise your options to control when and whether you have children and then whining about bearing some financial responsibility for a child you helped conceive while calling women irresponsible is what's funny. Well, laughable, anyway.

Once again:

Stop acting like men have no say in when or whether they become parents. They absolutely do, before conception. After conception, the woman has a say right up until abortion laws restrict her say.

[Deleted]

Those are the child's rights--those laws exist for the child, not the woman. Men bearing some financial responsibility for a child they helped conceive =/= blackmail.

Also, to be clear, women have *the same* financial responsibilities to the child--it's not 0 from the mother and 100% from the father. It's the mother + a percentage of the father's paycheck, if it exists.

A child that was brought into this world by the choice of the woman, if she can not pay for her own offspring then she should not have offspring. So this is very much for the mother, and not for the child.

If you want what is best for the child then it should go up for adoption as soon as its born. As having 2 loving parents that want you is always better then having one parent that can't even support you.

The problem of that statement is is that its an empty one. Woman that do not want to have children don't have children so they wont have child support. They can give them up for adoption without any say of the father at birth and be done with everything, but males cant do that for some magical reason.

[Levelfive]

A child that was brought into this world by the choice of the woman, if she can not pay for her own offspring then she should not have offspring. So this is very much for the mother, and not for the child.

If you want what is best for the child then it should go up for adoption as soon as its born. As having 2 loving parents that want you is always better then having one parent that can't even support you.

The problem of that statement is is that its an empty one. Woman that do not want to have children don't have children so they wont have child support. They can give them up for adoption without any say of the father at birth and be done with everything, but males cant do that for some magical reason.

The father bears financial responsibility regardless of the mother's financial situation. That's in the best interests of the child, from the state's perspective.

[Deleted]

You electing not to exercise your options to control when and whether you have children and then whining about bearing some financial responsibility for a child you helped conceive while calling women irresponsible is what's funny. Well, laughable, anyway.

Once again:

You still have not said anything useful about any options. Preaching abstinence is stupid as fuck has never worked and can never work, then your only option is to do something that not a single doctor will do. And finally you are spouting something about condoms, as if no one ever thought of that.

So again, MEN DO NOT HAVE A SAY IN THIS MATTER.

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The father bears financial responsibility regardless of the mother's financial situation. That's in the best interests of the child, from the state's perspective.

Again, siting the rules in order to prove that they are right is a fallacy.

[Levelfive]

You still have not said anything useful about any options. Preaching abstinence is stupid as fuck has never worked and can never work, then your only option is to do something that not a single doctor will do. And finally you are spouting something about condoms, as if no one ever thought of that.

So again, MEN DO NOT HAVE A SAY IN THIS MATTER.

Turns out, abstinence is NOT your only option: you can get a vasectomy and bank your sperm; you can use fancy condoms and spermicide. Electing not to exercise your say =/= not having one.

[Rotted]

Meh. Abortion is not "murder" because it takes place prior to the fetus being able to survive outside the womb. The same should apply in this scenario or any scenario when a woman "miscarries" prior to that point. It was certainly shitty and he should be held accountable, but I personally wouldn't call it "murder".



Agreed. This should be standard practice at soon as you turn 18 for guys. If only to protect yourself and give you control of when your DNA is used.

I'd agree and not call it murder,

But the consequences should be just as harsh. The choice wasn't his to decide if it should come to term or not and on top of that the mother had made the choice to bring it to term. It's not shitty, it's vile and evil.

Lets remove the baby from the equation for a moment. How do you think it will impact the woman in question? Someone that supposedly loves you, comes around to the idea of having the baby and literally starts making plans only for it be a ruse to kill the developing baby. It's going to cause deep psychological trauma.

As for having the snip at 18, that fucking stupidity. At 18 I was more than capable to practice safe sex as are the majority of people.

[Dezerte]

I'm all for abortions and most of all choice, i want people to be able to choose what they want to do and not to be forced by anyone into a situation that they do not want to be part off. But apparently this is only something females may have.

And no, you making a strawman is not within my line of reasoning. It is about having a choice about one of the bigger decisions you have in your life, becoming a parent or not, and with whom you want to have this commitment.



Are you really suggesting here that guys do not want to use condoms as per default or something like that, because, of course people use a condom. Its like the basic thing, i do not want to get someone pregnant and/or get something weird, better wear a condom.
Condoms are not full proof and neither is an vasectomy and that is even if, and thats a big if, they are willing to preform one on you. Young males are often denied this surgery because they are young and might want children later in life, but yea, bodily autonomy.. right!? But anyway, needing to do surgery just because someone might want to have a child from you that you do not want them to have seems pretty weird stance to have in the first place.
And some wonder pill that doesn't exist isn't really all that helpful.





Yea you did..



But somehow you do belief that males should do exactly this, he had sex, deal with it. And abortions are always an option, we do not allow them after a certain point because the fetus would be able to sustain it self outside of the womb at that time. That means another set of rules come into play.
The point is, again, everyone should have the ability to choose if they want to become a parent or not.

Just going to condense these quotes here.

You have a choice, man or woman. That you do not accept that impregnating a woman is a choice by the man, is not an argument and is fallacious. It is a choice by definition and any logical consistency.

I didn't make a straw-man because I said it "seems", i.e. I made no claim that this was what you were thinking but it was me attempting to probe you in order for me to better understand your position and beliefs.

There are a couple of promising pills here. Also didn't mention that you can also pull out (mentioned on the wiki page). There are clearly several methods available for a man to have sex without impregnating a woman.

Is it not discipline to control oneself? Is it not responsibility to accept that your actions led to this result? These are statements of facts, not arguments. Additionally you were unable to show me where I argued that you are wrong because I (and I did not mean to imply you specifically) think you lack those things. It appears you are the one committing the fallacy fallacy if anything.

Men have a choice.

Abortion is fine. Blackmailing and gold-digging isn't.

Women can have their bodily autonomy - they shouldn't have special rights to demand that the father has to subsidize the child.




Blatant false equivalence detected.




Choosing to go for an abortion, or being a decent human being and agreeing to not blackmail the unwilling father is a thing.

Abortions are also great for stopping additional misery caused to the unwanted child.

Forcing abortions is also a breach of bodily autonomy.

[Deleted]

Turns out, abstinence is NOT your only option: you can get a vasectomy and bank your sperm; you can use fancy condoms and spermicide. Electing not to exercise your say =/= not having one.

As ive said even in the bit that you have quoted, that isn't an option. Most doctors won't do that unless you already have children and most certainly not when you are young.
Banked sperm isn't exactly of the same quality as fresh sperm is, there are risks to that too.
So basically man do not have a choice.

Look, if abortion wasn't a thing then there wouldnt be any choice, and then i'd be with you that a male should pay for his unwanted offspring.
But abortion is a thing, and because of this it became 100% a choice, and no one should have to pay for the live choices that other people make.