"go play retail then" is getting old

[callipygoustp]

Patch 1.12 or die.

[Deleted]

Where do you draw the line though? People have been asking for all of this. LFG, LFR, Dual spec, free respecs, ingame tokens so the don't have to grind gold, removal of raid attunements, class rework and redesigns, role changes and more, inculding flying mounts.
Is it you that draws these lines and everyone that does not agree with you is a child?

The best way to do this is to just not change the game at all. People wanted vanilla, give them vanilla.

Obviously Im not the one drawing the line. Blizzard will.

Until blizzard announced classic, there was no point discussing about all this. People wanted official servers to not be forced to go pirate and play vanilla, now that its official, people can talk about details! Now just go and read p servers forums! You'll see threads about adding some stuff. You have p servers players asking for more QoL !

Sure you have hard core classic players who'd like to go back to 2004, and you also have people who would like vanilla with every 2017 features. Then you have all the people between those 2 extreme, closer to one side or the other at various level. That's where the majority is IMO. For minor stuff like multimail w/o 3rd party addons, I want to believe people can agree it's not gonna make vanilla look like legion. That's why Im bafled when someone tell me to play retail when I talk about ZLoot and multimail. To me they sound like mindless zealots reciting their doctrine like a brain bug.

Once again vanilla with ZLoot is not legion.

Now serious question: do you stay away from classic is there is ZLoot and multimail?

[ShimmerSwirl]

Dual spec is actually a enormous difference between classic and retail. Having one spec and high respec costs caused players to have one identity that they were known for. It helped build server community imo.

[Deleted]

On the other hand, it's about Classic servers, not TBC or WotLK or Cata or Pandaria or WoD ones. So yeah, it's tailored toward the first two and a half years after the game release, and not toward those which happened later.

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You seem to not get it, despite it being the very point and being constantly repeated : the entire problem is that "the line not to cross" is different between a lot of players. Dual-spec is precisely a line not to cross for many. For other it'll be AoE loot. For others, LFG is actually not a line to not cross.
Everyone has his own opinion, and that's why most prefer to simply not to touch anything.

Then you disappoint more people than you please. That's why I think blizz better have to find a reasonable line not to cross.

Like I said, even the more hardcore among the harcore back to 2004 crowd will play classic even if blizzard implement ZLoot and multimail. Humans can make compromise. Most of them will realise it's still classic and not even close to legion. Those who dont can rot on pirate servers and keep being close minded as fuck.

[Hitei]

AoE looting changes the entire economy, just like it did with live.

Please elaborate.

And let me just go ahead and laugh at that line of logic to begin with, because the Classic Wow economy is going to be absolutely, absolutely nothing like Vanilla WoW's economy. A simple glance at any large private server will tell you that.

[Deleted]

AoE looting changes the entire economy, just like it did with live.

Please explain me how it change the entire economy. Please

[Altariaz]

Dual spec is actually a enormous difference between classic and retail. Having one spec and high respec costs caused players to have one identity that they were known for. It helped build server community imo.

That's a massive overstatement.

[Polybius]

You don't realize that you just proved what he said ?
Either you re-specced between each fight (which is simply not doable for non-very-hardcore because of the cost), or you had the choice between sucking it up with a spec that worked very badly against some resistances (being fire-specced and using your off-spec spells against a fire elemental, for example) or to make a fully hybrid spec that would work reasonably well but not optimally in both case. Situations that simply wouldn't happen with dual-spec => your spec had more identity.

Perfect example of the REAL reason we have these threads sprouting up constantly : Vanilla haters who just specifically come here to troll.

"Dual spec breaks identity"

It literally doesn't, hence my point. He may as well say Classic should restrict a class to one spec with no option to respec. Respeccing never broke class or spec identity.

[Deleted]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Small minded internet trolls will always see things in black and white.

Either you are a purist or you are a retail Legion baby.
You are either a Mythic raider or lfr scrub


Whenever you come across these people(on both sides of the spectrum) you can rest assured that Blizzard will largely ignore them aswell. Most people brush them off as mindless drones and just ignore them. Its harder to do on this forum as it seems to be full of those people. Like to the brim

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It's pretty fucked up that the people who didn't campaign super hard for classic servers are now co-opting the decision to make them and trying to tell the people who did to piss off.

How about if you want to play classic vanilla WoW you play it, and if you don't then YOU play a private server?

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The economics of WoW are based on Time. The more time it takes to get something, the more valuable it becomes inherently. AoE looting takes what would normally take 30 seconds to a minute and makes it take 1 second, which across long stretches of time adds up to hundreds of thousands of hours of saved time, which depreciates normally rare items values, as well as basic mats like crafting materials.

Do you know what everyone who campaigned for classic servers want? Fucking pokemon

[Rampant Rabbit]

I'm fairly certain that Blizzard will implement certain ease of life aspects that were originally added AFTER Vanilla.

While I would welcome dual spec as I would've welcomed it in Vanilla, I would rather just see cheaper respec costs instead.

[Deleted]

Dual spec is actually a enormous difference between classic and retail. Having one spec and high respec costs caused players to have one identity that they were known for. It helped build server community imo.

That's some major BS here.... People changed spec as needed and identity had nothing to do with it. Same with community..... it was just more farming to pay the cost.

Tho I'm not part of the crowd asking for dual spec, but it's not for identity or community reasons.

I'm ok with ZLoot and multimail, even Tmog. I dont ask for dual spec, LFR or flying mounts. Can you see the nuance?

[AceofH]

Welcome to game design. Blizzard will have it's scope decided and make any changes or they need to achieve it. Again, simply adding in a QoL feature that has little to no downsides (say AoE looting) doesn't suddenly make it retail.

aoe looting does have downsides. first of all it really only affects two classes. mages who spec frost and protection paladins. those are the only classes that can aoe grind. so on top of them already having an advantage in being the only classes that can aoe grind, you want to give them another very distinct advantage on top of that.

[Aggrophobic]

Obviously Im not the one drawing the line. Blizzard will.

Until blizzard announced classic, there was no point discussing about all this. People wanted official servers to not be forced to go pirate and play vanilla, now that its official, people can talk about details! Now just go and read p servers forums! You'll see threads about adding some stuff. You have p servers players asking for more QoL !

Sure you have hard core classic players who'd like to go back to 2004, and you also have people who would like vanilla with every 2017 features. Then you have all the people between those 2 extreme, closer to one side or the other at various level. That's where the majority is IMO. For minor stuff like multimail w/o 3rd party addons, I want to believe people can agree it's not gonna make vanilla look like legion. That's why Im bafled when someone tell me to play retail when I talk about ZLoot and multimail. To me they sound like mindless zealots reciting their doctrine like a brain bug.

Once again vanilla with ZLoot is not legion.

Now serious question: do you stay away from classic is there is ZLoot and multimail?

Actually, Blizzard told us to discuss how we wanted classic servers.
Now is most certainly the time to discuss it befor they turn classic into some horrible mix of all the expansions.

There is no point in voicing your opinion after they have already remade the game and released it.

To answer your question: Yes.

[Hitei]

The economics of WoW are based on Time. The more time it takes to get something, the more valuable it becomes inherently. AoE looting takes what would normally take 30 seconds to a minute and makes it take 1 second, which across long stretches of time adds up to hundreds of thousands of hours of saved time, which depreciates normally rare items values, as well as basic mats like crafting materials. It completely changes Vanilla.

No, the economics of WoW are based on Supply, like all economics everywhere at anytime in the history of ever.

Unless you are literally mentally retarded and unable to use a mouse, it does not take 30 seconds to a minute to loot bodies. It takes 5-6 seconds instead of 1. You are going to hit respawn timer issues long, long before that 4 seconds of difference means anything. Wowee, you looted those bodies quicker, and now can walk over to those other things that haven't respawned yet. You sure saved so much time didn't you?

You farming 50 wool cloth in 45 minutes, and farming 50 wool cloth in 46 minutes is not going to "completely change Vanilla!"

It changes nothing, and we aren't talking about Vanilla to begin with, what a joke.

Do you think that the economy of classic is going to be the same as Vanilla with devilsaur mafias? With 95% of pvpers going engineering? With people deliberately going professions based on their BiS lists and end game usefulness instead of what they think is interesting? With people camping high end nodes and everyone in the world knowing farm strats?

The economy is not going to be Vanilla's. That's just objective fact.

[ShimmerSwirl]

That's some major BS here.... People changed spec as needed and identity had nothing to do with it. Same with community..... it was just more farming to pay the cost.

Now THAT is some BS. People changed spec as needed? Yeah, no. I highly doubt you played then if you think this is the case. Respeccing was a big enough deal in my guild that the guild would pay the cost of it if they needed you to do it. Its not something people just did multiple times per day in order to play a specific type of content.

[AceofH]

It is for you if you choose to. All on personal level.

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Is there even a qol feature that give an edge?

aoe looting, dual spec, etc

[Hitei]

...I couldn't possibly facepalm any harder...

Where do you think supply comes from in WoW?

FROM LOOTING.

Wow, and does that 3 less seconds spent looting somehow magically increase the amount of items you get after killing a pack?

What's that? You say it doesn't? You say it has absolutely no impact at all and the economy is going to be more effected by someone deciding to get up and go get a glass of water while waiting for respawns than it is by someone shaving a few seconds of their time spent clicking bodies?

[Polybius]

Now THAT is some BS. People changed spec as needed? Yeah, no. I highly doubt you played then if you think this is the case. Respeccing was a big enough deal in my guild that the guild would pay the cost of it if they needed you to do it. Its not something people just did multiple times per day in order to play a specific type of content.

If identity meant something then Fire mages would've never respecced for MC

[Hitei]

I can tell how little you have actually thought about this from the little scenario you presented because it ignores every other possible looting situation.

I can tell you don't understand how basic logic works because you think one example needs to cover all examples, and are continuing to try and pretend the other points, like that it isn't Vanilla's economy to begin with, don't exist.

Not all farming in Vanilla WoW is killing packs of mobs with a high respawn time....

Jesus christ... How can you be so smug and be so wrong at the same time?

Because that's where AoE looting has any impact at all? Not that hard.

[Deleted]

The economics of WoW are based on Time. The more time it takes to get something, the more valuable it becomes inherently. AoE looting takes what would normally take 30 seconds to a minute and makes it take 1 second, which across long stretches of time adds up to hundreds of thousands of hours of saved time, which depreciates normally rare items values, as well as basic mats like crafting materials. It completely changes Vanilla.

That's some really exagerated BS here loool. "Completely change vanilla" lmfao. ... Come on

"I won 0,0004 couper per zloot, in the course of 3 years I won 3 fucking gold! Economy is broken! Completely change vanilla!"

Stop it.