Doctor Accused Of Spiking Pregnant Girlfriend’s Tea With Abortion Pill

[Levelfive]

As ive said even in the bit that you have quoted, that isn't an option. Most doctors won't do that unless you already have children and most certainly not when you are young.
Banked sperm isn't exactly of the same quality as fresh sperm is, there are risks to that too.
So basically man do not have a choice.

Look, if abortion wasn't a thing then there wouldnt be any choice, and then i'd be with you that a male should pay for his unwanted offspring.
But abortion is a thing, and because of this it became 100% a choice, and no one should have to pay for the live choices that other people make.

I know that to you, facts are logical fallacies, but if you're over 18 and mentally fit, you can get a vasectomy.

Again (again): you not liking your options isn't the same as not having any.

[Flarelaine]

You're a fucking disgusting individual saying you would force someone to have an abortion.

[Infracted]

You can sign me up for infraction as well, but I fully agree with that assessment.

[Deleted]

Just going to condense these quotes here.

You have a choice, man or woman. That you do not accept that impregnating a woman is a choice by the man, is not an argument and is fallacious. It is a choice by definition and any logical consistency.

I didn't make a straw-man because I said it "seems", i.e. I made no claim that this was what you were thinking but it was me attempting to probe you in order for me to better understand your position and beliefs.

There are a couple of promising pills here. Also didn't mention that you can also pull out (mentioned on the wiki page). There are clearly several methods available for a man to have sex without impregnating a woman.

Is it not discipline to control oneself? Is it not responsibility to accept that your actions led to this result? These are statements of facts, not arguments. Additionally you were unable to show me where I argued that you are wrong because I (and I did not mean to imply you specifically) think you lack those things. It appears you are the one committing the fallacy fallacy if anything.

Men have a choice.

"Impregnating a woman" is a choice men make now!? Yea no, i do not think so, having sex isn't even remotely the same as impregnating a woman. Or are you going to say here that all sex is solely for impregnation and that it isn't something pleasurable that humans do for fun? Having a child is 100% a choice that the woman makes, when you choose to do something then you should also bare full responsibility for that choice.

Nice opt out, okay i'll give you that one, but okay then, it seems you have mistaken my words for something else then.

Again, those pill are not something that is an option now, it might be in the future, and that would be great! But it isn't right now, so again, not a choice on the mens part.

If you dont want something to happen then don't let it happen is blaming someone to not let something happen that he has no control over if it happens or not.

Again, because having a child is 100% a choice the responsibility for this choice should be had by the people who made this choice. Why do you think that someone else should be responsible for the choice that someone else made?

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I know that to you, facts are logical fallacies, but if you're over 18 and mentally fit, you can get a vasectomy.

Again (again): you not liking your options isn't the same as not having any.

Again, you wont get one, doctors often flat out refuse young people for this, and, having to surgically remove bodily functions is not really a choice. Having to alter your bodies in order to get the same privileges as someone else gets naturally is ethically not something you can sell.

[Flarelaine]

Assuming he won 200K a year, he'd be paying her 40K. 40K!! Are you nuts?

Assuming he won 200K a year, he just threw that much money away. Feticide is legally murder in Virginia, where this happened.

So ponder this - he wasted 200K (and his life) to save 40K for 18 years.

But even without the maths... anyone committing or even promoting forced abortion is the scum of the fucking Earth. Present company not excepted.

[Travis B]

What method would you suggest? Pushing her down the stairs? Punching her in the stomach?

You're a fucking disgusting individual saying you would force someone to have an abortion.

[Infracted]

It's funny how saying you would assault a woman to terminate her pregnancy is perfectly fine, but calling that person out for saying something horrible apparently crosses a line.

[Flarelaine]

If a woman carried my child to term against my wishes, and with no consent from me at any point (because there never would be, I don't want kids, ever), and I had taken all possible precautions short of a medical procedure to prevent a pregnancy, then yes I would see it as a violation.

Consent, in this case, would take the form of dipping the penis repeatedly into the vagina. Anything past that is the woman's decision.

[Gangresnake]

I know that to you, facts are logical fallacies, but if you're over 18 and mentally fit, you can get a vasectomy.

Again (again): you not liking your options isn't the same as not having any.

That's an interesting fact, but you're dodging the subject.
Parenthood is no longer defined at the moment of conceptions, we have pills, condoms and abortions. Do the father get a say in if the pregnancy go to term or is aborted ? If the answer is no then they cant really be held responsible, they simply had no control over this decision and much like the mother, parenthood must be a voluntary act.

"You can get a vasectomy" And she can get her tubes tied. So let's outlaw abortion because CLEARLY it's not needed at all.
This is the most hypocritical stance ever.
The woman is very happy to have the right to her body, her life, her choice and the luxury of the 21th century technological advancement at the tip of her fingers.
But when it's about the man he suddenly doesnt have any rights, he just have responsibilities, it's like he's some peasant from the middle age, abortion doesnt exist in his world and he doesnt even have the right to his own money.

The more I read the absolute insanity posted here, the more I understand the man in the OP.

[Levelfive]

Again, you wont get one, doctors often flat out refuse young people for this, and, having to surgically remove bodily functions is not really a choice. Having to alter your bodies in order to get the same privileges as someone else gets naturally is ethically not something you can sell.

Women searching for doctors who perform abortions yawn in your general direction. You electing not to exercise your options is not the same as not having any.

[Deleted]

Women searching for doctors who perform abortions yawn in your general direction. You electing not to exercise your options is not the same as not having any.

Needing surgery in order to get the same rights as someone else isn't a real option no matter how much you want to push it. Sterility just isn't an option.

[Levelfive]

That's an interesting fact, but you're dodging the subject.
Parenthood is no longer defined at the moment of conceptions, we have pills, condoms and abortions. Do the father get a say in if the pregnancy go to term or is aborted ? If the answer is no then they cant really be held responsible, they simply had no control over this decision and much like the mother, parenthood must be a voluntary act.

"You can get a vasectomy" And she can get her tubes tied. So let's outlaw abortion because CLEARLY it's not needed at all.
This is the most hypocritical stance ever.
The woman is very happy to have the right to her body, her life, her choice and the luxury of the 21th century technological advancement at the tip of her fingers.
But when it's about the man he suddenly doesnt have any rights, he just have responsibilities, it's like he's some peasant from the middle age, abortion doesnt exist in his world and he doesnt even have the right to his own money.

The more I read the absolute insanity posted here, the more I understand the man in the OP.

The entire argument here is that women are trapping men into parenthood that men are affronted to bear some financial responsibility for--I am suggesting ways men can avoid the situation. The rest of what you're saying is nonsense. Of course women can get their tubes tied, and if women start showing up here kvetching about all their unwanted pregnancies they have to deal with even though they don't wanna, I'll tell them as much.

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Needing surgery in order to get the same rights as someone else isn't a real option no matter how much you want to push it. Sterility just isn't an option.

Women's options aren't peachy either. But not liking them is still not the same as not having them.

[Gangresnake]

The entire argument here is that women are trapping men into parenthood that men are affronted to bear some financial responsibility for--I am suggesting ways men can avoid the situation. The rest of what you're saying is nonsense.

The problem is not about "trapping someone", wether the intent is malicious or not, parenthood is a 2 people job and the man should have his say.
The fact they dont have ANY say in the abortion decision and still full responsibilites in the consequence of it is a basic lack of rights. Which would be solved by allowing them to opt-out of parenthood. This way bodily authonomy of the woman is untouched and equality is restored by giving the man options, this would very easily prevent the scenario in the OP.

if women start showing up here kvetching about all their unwanted pregnancies they have to deal with even though they don't wanna, I'll tell them as much.

Would you really ? Would you actually tell them to take responsibilites and that abortion isnt an option ?

[Deleted]

The entire argument here is that women are trapping men into parenthood that men are affronted to bear some financial responsibility for--I am suggesting ways men can avoid the situation. The rest of what you're saying is nonsense. Of course women can get their tubes tied, and if women start showing up here kvetching about all their unwanted pregnancies they have to deal with even though they don't wanna, I'll tell them as much.

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Women's options aren't peachy either. But not liking them is still not the same as not having them.

Arn't peachy is no were as bad as sterile, sterilizing your self in order to get some right others are granted naturally really isn't an option, and you know it. An after morning pill is nowhere as bad as having to surgically sterilize yourself.

So no, men do not have a choice, no matter how much you whine that they do, if i where to suggest that abortions are bullshit because if she doesn't want to get pregnant all she needs to do is not have sex or tie her tubes you would not believe the outrage there'd be. But you are perfectly fine laying this law down on men.

[Flarelaine]

OMG there's actual redpillers and fucking mgtow in this thread. (insert crying laughing emoji here)

Somewhat appropriate in a thread about a pill.

[Machismo]

No i did not, apparently you can not understand you own flawed reasoning.

Again, you misunderstand what is being said here, what is being said is that if we treat woman the same as we treat men then a woman should not be able to have an abortion, because she choose to have sex. And that is a stupid stance to have any day of the week for all sexes, but somehow, magically, this isn't the case when we talk about male reproductive rights. They put their penis there, they should be responsible. What ever the fuck that may mean, as someone else choose to have that baby against his explicit whishes. They agreed to have sex, not to becoming a family. You can say that getting a baby from having sex is a thing, but it really isn't ever since we have abortions, since then it has become 100% a choice.

Saying that you know the risks and the rules and thereby proving that they are right is most definitely an appeal to authority, and that is exactly what you are doing.

What exactly is irresponsible about not wanting to take care of something that you didn't want to have in the first place?




Now this is just funny, as if these men have any option to not let that happen? You seem to be forgetting that the only ones that have any say in this are females, that is the entire freaking point of this.

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So woman should not have the ability to have an abortion!? He gave his blessing to have sex, not to start a family. Starting a family is 100% a choice (for as long as she can conceive)

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Preaching abstinence isn't "having a say", if a girl doesn't want to become pregnant then she should not have had sex, no need for abortions. This is what you are basically saying here..

Everyone should be free to have a choice in this, why do you not want males to have this choice?

If you want to make the argument against abortion, then feel free to try and make that argument. He did give his permission, by being an adult who is willingly having sex with a fertile female. No other action is necessary, making them equally responsible for the outcome.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Guys, really just get the snip, freeze some sperm for future use...

Gals, really just get the tubes tied, and only untie them when both you and your partner agree to have a child together...

[Darkeon]

Gals, really just get the tubes tied, and only untie them when both you and your partner agree to have a child together...

Abortion Laws are fine as they folk: How dare you say something like that about the majestic womyn??

[Levelfive]

The problem is not about "trapping someone", wether the intent is malicious or not, parenthood is a 2 people job and the man should have his say.
The fact they dont have ANY say in the abortion decision and still full responsibilites in the consequence of it is a basic lack of rights. Which would be solved by allowing them to opt-out of parenthood. This way bodily authonomy of the woman is untouched and equality is restored by giving the man options, this would very easily prevent the scenario in the OP.



Would you really ? Would you actually tell them to take responsibilites and that abortion isnt an option ?

The man does have a say--I've outlined it repeatedly. You may elect not to exercise it or dislike your options but you have them, just like women do. By the way, having an abortion IS dealing with the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy. I think what you're trying to capture is that you don't quite find it punitive enough.

Arn't peachy is no were as bad as sterile, sterilizing your self in order to get some right others are granted naturally really isn't an option, and you know it. An after morning pill is nowhere as bad as having to surgically sterilize yourself.

So no, men do not have a choice, no matter how much you whine that they do, if i where to suggest that abortions are bullshit because if she doesn't want to get pregnant all she needs to do is not have sex or tie her tubes you would not believe the outrage there'd be. But you are perfectly fine laying this law down on men.

You DO have choices; you just don't like them.

[Travis B]

OMG there's actual redpillers and fucking mgtow in this thread. (insert crying laughing emoji here)

They have been much more active on here ever since r/incels got shut down. It's both hilarious and a bit frightening at the same time.

Half of them probably can't even find a woman to stick their dick in, yet men's pregnancy rights are apparently one of their most pressing concerns.

[Gangresnake]

The man does have a say--I've outlined it repeatedly. You may elect not to exercise it or dislike your options but you have them, just like women do. By the way, having an abortion IS dealing with the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy. I think what you're trying to capture is that you don't quite find it punitive enough.

The thing you outlined perfectly is that you're the same hypocrites as the rest : You're dancing around the issue. You're telling "both parties" that they have "options" and to be "responsible" while completely denying that they are in complete asymmetrical situations.
The man doesnt have any right in abortion. His child could be taken from him right in front of him and his opinions would be worth nothing. If the woman decide to keep the child against his wishes, his opinions is once again worth nothing. If the pregnancy carry to term, his money is no longer his. He's expected to pay for a decision he had no control on.
The woman is on the opposite side, she decide everything unilateraly, and the man is expected to suffer the consequences of her actions. Whatever she does.

The more I talk about it and well, the more it become clear that the man in the OP isnt so bad after all. Because taking an unilateral decision to end the child life or not and have the other party suffer the consequences is litteraly what happen everyday in legal abortion decision and you're somehow absolutely fine with it.
The only thing that really shock you or disgust you in this case, is that the role were reversed for once. That's pretty fucking shameful.

[Flarelaine]

If he gets less than 18 years in prison - it's a win for him

Even with a lenient jury, I can hardly see him holding on to his license.