1. #3381
    If Trump knows he has something to hide that’s potentially impeachable, he should probably — putting ethics and the truth aside — fire Mueller and try to out-run the law. Otherwise, cashiering Mueller would be insane. It would be like firing Comey only worse. If Democrats took the House — and firing Mueller would increase the odds of that happening — Mueller might be the lead witness at an impeachment hearing, even if there isn’t any Russian collusion.

    I have to say that there would be something perfect about this — a special counsel investigating, in part, the circumstances that led to his appointment would be fired, perhaps leading to an impeachment about the circumstances of his ouster. It’d be the most self-referential alleged high crime in the history of the republic.
    This gave me a laugh.

  2. #3382
    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    Ok legal question, if trump fires mueller, does that legally open mueller up to publicly say all the dirt hes found on trump?
    I thought that myself as well...

    No, sadly it doesn't. All that evidence would (should) go to the next guy. if you blurted out all that evidence it a) undermines the confidentiality privileges that the FBI has and b) taints the investigative process in the future.

    Remember, a lot of the current evidence is letting them covertly investigate and allowing others to incriminate themselves later.

  3. #3383
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I thought that myself as well...

    No, sadly it doesn't. All that evidence would (should) go to the next guy. if you blurted out all that evidence it a) undermines the confidentiality privileges that the FBI has and b) taints the investigative process in the future.

    Remember, a lot of the current evidence is letting them covertly investigate and allowing others to incriminate themselves later.
    But if he has enough it might go directly to the congressional investigations. It certainly wouldn't go public, but it wouldn't go away either.

  4. #3384
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    The word you are looking for is not "neutral", I think its traitor at this point.
    I think that's one of the unfortunate side effects of the Strzok texts and the kid-glove handling of associates in the Hillary investigation by the very same investigators: Looks like a smear campaign.

    Two things can be true at the same time:

    1. There is evidence that suggests a lead investigator in the Mueller investigation into Trump had improper motives, combined with the same investigator letting off Hillary associates for the same sorts of crimes: dishonest statements. (Around the same time the Hillary-connected Fusion-GPS "Steele Dossier" was obtained, and it is reported but not confirmed that the FBI and Obama Justice Department used this dossier in part to obtain a FISA warrant against Trump's campaign.)

    2. This will be used to smear the Mueller investigation as a whole.


    Most reasonable people on the right are sticking with number 1 and mentioning that the suspicion rises to the level of warranting an investigation. No reasonable people on the right should be claiming that this demonstrates that the Mueller investigation is flawed totally. Andrew McCarthy: "If you’ve made up your mind that Peter Strzok is responsible for tanking the Hillary Clinton case, and that he was putting his thumb on Mueller’s scale against the Trump administration, you are way out ahead of what we actually know — and you’re probably wrong."

    But I agree with the editors at the National Review, an investigation is warranted. That's not traitorous rationale.
    Last edited by Dacien; 2017-12-17 at 07:07 PM.

  5. #3385
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    (Around the same time the Hillary-connected Fusion-GPS "Steele Dossier" was obtained
    The dossier that was requested by Republicans during the primary?

    , and it is reported but not confirmed that the FBI and Obama Justice Department used this dossier in part to obtain a FISA warrant against Trump's campaign.)
    Do you really think they'd use information they couldn't independently corroborate? Or that a judge would sign off on it? Insinuating that it was the sole source of their information is disingenuous but ofc, it's something McCarthy and a litany of other right-wing hack "journalists" are saying...

    But I agree with the editors at the National Review, an investigation is warranted. That's not traiterous rationale.
    There already is an investigation. Implying there isn't in an attempt to portray bad faith is just more partisan hackery.

  6. #3386
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    The dossier that was requested by Republicans during the primary?
    The dossier that was compiled by Fusion GPS at the behest of lawyers for the Clinton campaign for the purpose of anti-Trump oppo research.


    Do you really think they'd use information they couldn't independently corroborate? Or that a judge would sign off on it?
    We don't know, which is why some are calling for the House Intelligence Committee to be provided with this information.

    Insinuating that it was the sole source of their information is disingenuous but ofc, it's something McCarthy and a litany of other right-wing hack "journalists" are saying...
    McCarthy has not suggested that the Steele dossier was the sole evidence used, or even if it was used at all.


    There already is an investigation. Implying there isn't in an attempt to portray bad faith is just more partisan hackery.
    There's no official fact-finding investigation into the Mueller investigation.

  7. #3387
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    The dossier that was compiled by Fusion GPS at the behest of lawyers for the Clinton campaign for the purpose of anti-Trump oppo research.
    This isn’t true. It was compiled at the behest of a GOP super PAC. It was completed at the behest of the lawyer, since Trump won the primary by that time.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  8. #3388

  9. #3389
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    This isn’t true. It was compiled at the behest of a GOP super PAC. It was completed at the behest of the lawyer, since Trump won the primary by that time.
    The timeline of the completion of the dossier was well after any right-wing involvement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wa...on_Free_Beacon


    Just reminding you that it was a conservative publication that started the whole thing.
    Again, the dossier completion and utilization was well after these events.

  10. #3390
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    The timeline of the completion of the dossier was well after any right-wing involvement.
    let's flip the tables then... suppose it was a left wing publication that started something and dropped it because they didn't think it would look good for their candidate... you think there would have been something wrong if Trump's campaign picked it up afterwards to see why they dropped it?

  11. #3391
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    The timeline of the completion of the dossier was well after any right-wing involvement.
    So? They paid for what started Fusion GPS. The fact that they stopped paying, before it was completed, doesn’t mean they had nothing to do with it. Nor does it being conducted at behest of Hillary or RNC, change the validity of what they found.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  12. #3392
    I think trump will pardon flynn and others and sink himself into a deeper hole.

  13. #3393
    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    let's flip the tables then... suppose it was a left wing publication that started something and dropped it because they didn't think it would look good for their candidate...you think there would have been something wrong if Trump's campaign picked it up afterwards to see why they dropped it?

    I was under the impression it was dropped once Trump became the probable nominee. Do we know for certain they dropped it for other reasons? Unless I'm misunderstanding your question here. Which is possible.

    Okay, no I wouldn't think there was anything wrong with it if the information was solid, but as we know, much of the information in the dossier was unverified and unproven. Even if some elements have shown to be credible.

    Comey referred to the dossier himself as "salacious and unverified".
    Last edited by Dacien; 2017-12-17 at 07:40 PM.

  14. #3394
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    The dossier that was compiled by Fusion GPS at the behest of lawyers for the Clinton campaign for the purpose of anti-Trump oppo research.
    Bullshit.

    We don't know, which is why some are calling for the House Intelligence Committee to be provided with this information.
    So you're accusing a sitting federal judge of malpractice? The house committee can't be trusted with any information regarding the investigation given Nunes and Gowdy's positions on the transition team and Nunes' interference already wrt the unmasking "scandal". It seems like they (the house) were the ones who leaked the texts in the first place since the DOJ didn't authorize their release to the media, just in time for Rosenstein's testimony.

    McCarthy has not suggested that the Steele dossier was the sole evidence used, or even if it was used at all.
    Yeah he's "Just asking questions". No-one's buying it.

    There's no official fact-finding investigation into the Mueller investigation.
    Because it hasn't been determined that the guy was partisan during the Clinton investigation, where the texts came from. You're jumping the gun by presuming he is guilty of bias during the Clinton investigation and therefor his subsequent work for the Mueller investigation needs to be investigated.
    Last edited by Shadowmelded; 2017-12-17 at 07:47 PM.

  15. #3395
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    Right, but I pointed out above that it came to fruition, was compiled, after these events. During that time, it was funded by the DNC/Hillary campaign.

    Your point is noteworthy, as was @Felya and @Resurgo

  16. #3396
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    I was under the impression it was dropped once Trump became the probable nominee. Do we know for certain they dropped it for other reasons? Unless I'm misunderstanding your question here. Which is possible.

    Okay, no I wouldn't think there was anything wrong with it if the information was solid, but as we know, much of the information in the dossier was unverified and unproven. Even if some elements have shown to be credible.

    Comey referred to the dossier himself as "salacious and unverified".
    speculation here (on both our parts):
    I pretty much believe most of the people involved on both sides didn't believe the information. Otherwise, there would have been more action at that time. It wasn't till later investigations ended up corroborating what was in the dossier already.

  17. #3397
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Right, but I pointed out above that it came to fruition, was compiled, after these events. During that time, it was funded by the DNC/Hillary campaign.
    Then framing it as if it was initiated by the Clinton campaign is disingenuous. As is ignoring the fact that when it was completed, the DNC was no longer paying Fusion or Orbis/Steele who had invested his own money and time to continue the investigation after uncovering serious information.

  18. #3398
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    Then framing it as if it was initiated by the Clinton campaign is disingenuous. As is ignoring the fact that when it was completed, the DNC was no longer paying Fusion or Orbis/Steele who had invested his own money and time to continue the investigation after uncovering serious information.
    The whole idea that the dossier was some made up slander paid for by the DNC is frankly absurd. The person who wrote it, Christopher Steele, is a long-credentialed ex-MI6 operative with a long established track record of investigating the actions of the Russian intelligence services. Remember the investigation and criminal proceedings brought against senior members of FIFA? That all resulted from the work of Christopher Steele when he was hired by the UK's football association to investigate the winning bid by Russia to host the 2018 world cup. This is a true professional in the mold of Mueller. Would any sane person say Mueller is in the pay of the DNC and making it all up? So why the hell does anyone say the same about Christopher Steele? He is good at what he does, has integrity, and has a reputation to uphold, like Mueller he isn't about to throw away his life's work and everything he is by acting as a paid political hack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  19. #3399
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    This gave me a laugh.
    You really need to stop reading the National Review. Especially when their first paragraph states that Mueller isn't investigating Collusion, when he is with the Deutche Bank subpoenas, or that he isn't "closing in on a real obstruction of justice case". That fucking article is pathetic.

  20. #3400

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