WoW HAD to become easier to survive/ Classic WoW discusion

[Echo of Soul]

Again you keep talking about mythic raiding. Topic is about casual outdoor and dungeon experience not about raiding. Nobady cares about raiding. Raiding isnt what makes mmo good mmo.

Which is exactly what I said. I like vanilla a lot more, but not because it's more difficult for me to play, but because it's more difficult for my character to play.

[Deleted]

It takes less than 24 hours NOW, if you take into account max heirlooms released 1/2 way thru the xpac. When you talk about first day release, it isn't roughly 24 hours, bottom line.

24 hours /played from 100 to 110...thats a new one. Even without heirlooms or flying mounts is WAY less than that. Half at least.

You're talking normal dungeons. Here's the problem with your point. Normal back then is the equivalent of mythic today. M+ is a step above that. So congrats, when arguing something you forgot to include highest then vs highest now.

Normal dungeons were the causual experience in Vanilla the same way Heroics Dungeons are today the casual experience.
What is Normal/Heroic dungeons of retail then? We ignore them?
Its pretty sad that we need to compare Normal dungeons in Vanilla to Mythic + dungeons of today.

Considering people have stated they level up and get epics and clear raids on PS while not in a guild, then yes. Again, your arguement is baseless when you have PS players stating this happens.

They can pug raids but they cant get epics. How in the world can someone get a epic in the middle of 40 other people with 2 items droping per boss? Thats just Math, like you said.

Yes, the economy still exists and there are still people that don't have gold to afford things simply because they don't want to do the things required to have gold.

Man, in Legion i am the biggest casual in the universe. I HAVE NEVER farmed gold in my life (in legion) and i always have 20/30k gold on all my alts by doing NOTHING.
You are crazy to believe that the gold situation is the same of back then.
I've never "worked" in my life in legion and i always have "tons of gold" (20-30k is not exactly tons of gold but its enough to buy anything i want in the game like consumables, repair bots, elexirs, pots, flasks etc)

[meroes]

Just look at Cata heroics. If you played vanilla you knew they weren't even remotely hard or overtuned. The heroics were easier than most vanilla 5 mans, AND THEY NERFED THEM HEAVILY still. Take that mindset for very expansion since and you are left with legion. The people who still play retail and don't raid mythic are the NE hunters named legolas of the day.


how come I can heal anything but mythic on classes I have only started playing a week ago. It shouldby take me a week figure out the game. It took a week in Vanilla to get to level 30 or craft one piece of gear or to learn one the more easy bosses

[Sansnom]

The casual experience of Vanilla was 100% harder than the retail casual experience.

Leveling was harder
Dungeons were harder
Making gold was a pain in the ass
There was no LFR so was mandatory to find a guild to at least be able to see the raids
You had to farm consumables or money before every raid.
Getting epics was almost impossible without a guild
PvP Ranking System required you to be a no lifer

Yes, the casual experience in Vanilla was harder than the causal experience of retail

Levelling was not harder. It was more time consuming. Being able to kill 5 boards rather than 10 is not really suggesting the game was harder back then.

Dungeons were harder. I agree.

Gold was harder to acquire, that just means it took more time.

No LFR meant people simply did not raid. Raids itself were not harder compared to its equivalent today,

Farming was grinding.

So the game was not really harder. It was harder to find people for raids, but the raid itself were not. It was more time consuming and things took longer, particularly acquiring gear.

[Deleted]

Classic WoW wasn't hard, it was just incredibly tedious and stretched-out lol. Encounter that requires you to have resist gear and then just spank the boss to death, such difficulty

[Xjev]

Just because McDonald's is a very successful business today doesn't mean they got the best food for everyone. Why PoE is doing better than D3? Different people like different styles.

[Deleted]

Levelling was not harder. It was more time consuming. Being able to kill 5 boards rather than 10 is not really suggesting the game was harder back then.

But thats the thing, it was impossible to tank 5 boars or bears. You would die unless you were a mage.

We can argue semantics but if something takes longer and you die if you mess up...thats because is harder?

[Kynario]

Legion is harder huh? Go level to 60 on a private server, without dying.. good luck. Get your gear, go to UBRS with 10 people. Take those 10 people and pull 3 packs of mobs, your dead.

In Legion, take 3 packs of Mobs, AOE them down in 30 seconds. I didnt die a single time while leveling in Legion 100-110. I play on a private server like lightshope, i died at least 100+ times while leveling to 60, oops i pulled 3 mobs, im dead. Oops we pulled an extra pack with no CC in scholo, your dead.

While Vanilla WoW is simpler in terms of Mechanics, the Mechanics that did exist were more punishing due to gear/HP/Heals per second etc. There are less fewer tools to deal with fucks up which in turn made it harder.

Sorry, yeah, I didn't express myself correctly. I think from a raiding perspective it's more complex in terms of mechanics. Otherwise you're absolutely right... Vanilla was definitely harder in the sense that content wasn't really soloable and as you said, pulling more than 1 pack of mobs in most dungeons or raids resulted in a wipe. It required way more planning and strategy relative to nowadays where it's usually a zerg AoE fest. :/

[killerlee]

Btw as far as leveling to clear it all up i was at 7 days and 3 hours /played to get to 60. That was in my spare time, finding the occasional help with quests and groups i ran maybe 7 dungeons total. I leveled as frost and didnt AoE grind much. Didnt get enough money for my mount until level 42 and once i got to 60 the gear grind is for real. I just finally finished my Attunments to BWL/ONY/MC and it took a week.

The only Addon i was using for leveling was questie, thats it.

[solarfallz]

Watch your arguements. Something like 1% of the playerbase at the time ever cleared Naxx, so your using hypocritical arguements right now.
Also, people on PS are leveling up, gearing up, and clearing the old raids faster than ever, it's almost like Vanilla isn't as hard as people make it out to be.

OK, I have literally no clue what you are trying to argue in the first 2 sentences.

As for the last sentence, I am one of those people who plays classic servers, as well as Legion, and can confirm that 99% of the game is more difficult in classic.

[Deleted]

DarkAmbient You say the game lost subscribers because of changes. I have to disagree with you on this one. The game lost subscribers because it got old, some(or I'd say most) players that were teens or in their 20s-30s in early WoW just quit the game due to real life responsabilities, new generations of gamers came in and by this time, MMOs aren't a thing or at least not as they used to be. Ok you are partially right, the game did lost some subscribers because of changes, but then again, the game would've lost way more subscribers if there were no changes at all. Let me put it this way: late WotLK had 12 millions(the most suscribers ever), this was back in 2010, do you really think that if nothing happend for lets say 5 years, the subscribers would've been more than like 5.5 millions like in Q3 2015(WoD expansion and the last time they shared sub numbers)?..Well hell no, we would've been looking at like less than a million, think about it, 5 whole years without ANY CHANGE, that's a dead game, maybe it woul've even become free to play and we wouldn't be talking about suscribers in the first place LOL. I mean Guild Wars 2 was a real rival of WoW back in 2012 when it launched, do you really think WoW could've competed with it or other games like ESO who launched in 2014, if nothing had happened in WoW since 2010(let alone Vanilla 2006) and nothing will happen to the game? Again, HELL NO, but WoW DID crush the competition because of...well, CHANGES, expansions, which bring new people to the game and also make some old ones return. There is also the lore, this universe of Warcraft has to expand, even after 13+ years of WoW there are still KNOWN places we haven't discovered yet. You are really ignorant sir.

[glowpipe]

Let us not forget that back in Vanilla trash had a 30 minute respawn timer. You would get 3-4 pulls on a boss before having to clear the trash to that boss again. If you applied that to todays raids a lot fewer casual guilds would exist for normal and heroic. And some instances would just be a nightmare. ToS and Antorus with 30 min respawn trash would be attrocious as you would get 1-2 pulls on some bosses before having to clear again.

Or how about how hard it was to grind, I mean.... play for consumables back then was. Vanilla fanbois say there was no grind in vanilla. Farming consumables was more fun back then because.... Idk? If you were a healer getting consumables was a right pain in the ass.

I've been on a private server. I tried nostalrius because I never got to play Vanilla. It was the most boring thing in the world. As a retribution Paladin I had 1 button... on a 15 second Cooldown for the first 10 levels. Otherwise I just auto attacked. There was no threat of dying unless you were mentally retarded. Leveling was just boring and time consuming. And the community was 100x worse than it is on retail. Almost everyone was an elitist prick that if you asked something you were told to go back to retail so they could hold your hand.

Who said that vanilla was not a grind ?
If you are a vanilla fanboy and say that there was no grind, for consumables, you clearly never touched vanilla

[Deleted]

Just look at Cata heroics. If you played vanilla you knew they weren't even remotely hard or overtuned. The heroics were easier than most vanilla 5 mans, AND THEY NERFED THEM HEAVILY still. Take that mindset for very expansion since and you are left with legion. The people who still play retail and don't raid mythic are the NE hunters named legolas of the day.


how come I can heal anything but mythic on classes I have only started playing a week ago. It shouldby take me a week figure out the game. It took a week in Vanilla to get to level 30 or craft one piece of gear or to learn one the more easy bosses

Sorry, yeah, I didn't express myself correctly. I think from a raiding perspective it's more complex in terms of mechanics. Otherwise you're absolutely right... Vanilla was definitely harder in the sense that content wasn't really soloable and as you said, pulling more than 1 pack of mobs in most dungeons or raids resulted in a wipe. It required way more planning and strategy relative to nowadays where it's usually a zerg AoE fest. :/

There were also more runners and mob trains back then.

[Hubbl3]

AHAHA only thing what is harder is mythic raiding. Thats lake 0.1% of all game content. And even then it is just another difficulty level of content you can finish in LFR anyway. No Legion isnt harder than vannila. You compare mythic raiding to vannila rading. This only shows how stupid game have become if raiding is only relevenat thing what we do now. What about rest of the game hmnm ? Nothing right becouse it is nothing but faceroll grind what have become tedious grind just to get into raids.

You want to tell me that you "failed" content in Vanilla beside the top 0,1% raids? Now that's laughable. Vanilla was not hard besides the top 0,1%. So if you were really nitpicky you can only say "Legion is the same difficulty as vanilla".

Just look at Cata heroics. If you played vanilla you knew they weren't even remotely hard or overtuned. The heroics were easier than most vanilla 5 mans, AND THEY NERFED THEM HEAVILY still. Take that mindset for very expansion since and you are left with legion. The people who still play retail and don't raid mythic are the NE hunters named legolas of the day.


how come I can heal anything but mythic on classes I have only started playing a week ago. It shouldby take me a week figure out the game. It took a week in Vanilla to get to level 30 or craft one piece of gear or to learn one the more easy bosses

What is your point? In the end both Cata and Vanilla dungeons were easy. And the second part of your post only shows that you don't understand what makes a game hard at all.

[Nightstalker]

Stay away from the term "easy" in these discussions. It's all about accessability and comfort.

[seniorproc]

Legion is harder huh? Go level to 60 on a private server, without dying.. good luck. Get your gear, go to UBRS with 10 people. Take those 10 people and pull 3 packs of mobs, your dead.

In Legion, take 3 packs of Mobs, AOE them down in 30 seconds. I didnt die a single time while leveling in Legion 100-110. I play on a private server like lightshope, i died at least 100+ times while leveling to 60, oops i pulled 3 mobs, im dead. Oops we pulled an extra pack with no CC in scholo, your dead.

While Vanilla WoW is simpler in terms of Mechanics, the Mechanics that did exist were more punishing due to gear/HP/Heals per second etc. There are less fewer tools to deal with fucks up which in turn made it harder.

seems like you're just bad if you died that much. I have didnt die more than 20-30 times 1-60 on lights hope. UBRS is also piss easy lol, and wasnt hard to get pre-bis either.

[Dudewarr]

I do remember having blue crafted gear for weeks/months nowadays I can get fully epic'd out and become 930-940 in the span of a week, so yes the game is definitely a joke compared to the time it took to get that gear back in the day, I think looking for group is a large reason of this because, I along with many of you play or played on a low pop server so the groups running on the server at any given time doesnt even come close to what there is available today.

[Hubbl3]

seems like you're just bad if you died that much. I have didnt die more than 20-30 times 1-60 on lights hope. UBRS is also piss easy lol, and wasnt hard to get pre-bis either.

We were doing dungeons like Sunken Temple in classic with a Shaman as tank/healer (yes, the same char) and 4 DDs during leveling. The notion that classic was some sort of "super hard no mistakes allowed perfect play/cc or you will die 1000 times" game is laughable. Classic allowed so many mistakes/bad plays and fuckups everywhere, in the raids (up until the 0,1% - which don't count to peole in this thread), dungeons, leveling and farming.

[Hubbl3]

Yea because your average Joe today can afford to neglect his life and spend 10-30 hours in a single AV. How much time do you honestly want to put into this? You want rank14? I hope you didn't plan on having a gf, social life, job, school, sleep in the meantime.

Don't forget at the end of the day we are talking about a video game here. Why promote unhealthy behavior?

Don't worry, according to a friend who currently plays on the classic server where the progression of patches is "blizz like" even AV is nowadays 20 min maximum. People just know how to play after 13 years. She was exhalted after 1 week, which I find shocking.

[Hubbl3]

thats actually kind of heartening to hear tbh. I hope that translates the same when Classic servers come

Most likely. Which is kinda sad because the old AVs where the commanders are rescued, wolfriders and windriders are farmed, the Frost Lord and Forest Lord are present and everything were like the one thing I would acutally want to play again from Vanilla.