Why not have Dual Spec?

[Zafire]

They could do classic and classic+, but not sure if splitting the community would be a good idea. Vanilla was an inconvenience and I want all of the inconveniences that came with it.

[Deleted]

On a personal level I'd be fine with dual spec being added to classic, but that defeats the whole point of it being classic/vanilla WoW. Dual spec was sorely needed and a lot of people were crying out for it back then and in BC too... which is eventually why it did get added in WotLK. But the point of classic is to see how WoW was when it was first released... what it was like. This means the good and the bad stuff. There were a lot of issues with classic WoW, but that's what players seem to want back, they're okay with all the bad stuff coming back with the good and I respect that. I agree with it, even. I think it'll also be interesting for people who never played classic to actually experience it first hand, and see what WoW was like in the beginning. It'll blow a few minds for sure, and not necessarily in a good way. Some may think "wow, this is horrendous, how did players put up with this?" and others may really like it. Either way it has to be authentic.

If spec identity was ever a real thing, it was back then in vanilla (and BC), when you still had talent trees and could take on hybrid specs and do all sorts of whacky things. Nowadays you just pick a spec and then your talents. Back then your talents had points, you could choose to max out a talent or only put 1 point in it, etc. A lot of it wasn't even exciting stuff, just "increases your chance to dodge by X" or whatever. A bit underwhelming by today's standards some would say, where most class talent rows offer an actual ability or a strong passive that alters how you use an existing ability.

So my opinion is no ...no dual spec in classic. It would just be a bad precedent. If Blizzard modify that, what else will they modify? Maybe if they made a concrete promise to the playerbase that they'd add dual spec but keep everything else exactly the same, most players would be OK with it. But as it is, it sets a bad precedent and could lead to other changes that take away from what classic WoW was like.

[ManiaCCC]

I bet.

10chair

buddy, I tanked LBRS/UBRS with enhance shamy..glorious days

[Occam-OC]

Good so when it isn't there you will be perfectly ok with it. I understand.

What this whole "debate" amounts to is that Blizzard will do what they do and as players we'll either decide it's acceptable enough to play the game or not. Dual spec is not a deal breaker for me. In fact, NONE of it will be a deal breaker as far as playing the game. If later on I decide that it's not fun then I'll stop playing. I might even bitch about it along the way and STILL play the game.

There are tons of QoL I'd like to see that would have a negligible impact on the leveling and end-game experience, but I recognize that others feel differently and whether I agree with them or not their opinion is still valid. But for both the passionate and the dispassionate, in the end we'll all be playing (or not playing) the Classic version that Blizzard felt was the right fit for the majority of what it believes the player-base will be.

[Deleted]

There are tons of QoL I'd like to see that would have a negligible impact on the leveling and end-game experience

My main objection to this is that you cannot possibly know what will have a negligible impact on the game, because the whole system is too complex to fully analyze the second and higher order effects of simple changes. Vanilla design is a known entity, they should just go with that rather than trying to "improve" it (because their track record of "improving" WoW is not very good).

[Maudib]

Add nothing. Play everything.

Which is exactly what we are getting.

[Santoryu]

Why not stop posting crap?

[Akka]

My main objection to this is that you cannot possibly know what will have a negligible impact on the game, because the whole system is too complex to fully analyze the second and higher order effects of simple changes. Vanilla design is a known entity, they should just go with that rather than trying to "improve" it (because their track record of "improving" WoW is not very good).

My opinion too, thanks for formulating it better than I could ^^

[schwank05]

That's today-WoW mentality. Most of the guilds in actual Vanilla weren't that intrusive.
So yes it did.

WoW Vanilla was specifically not a game limited to high-level, intermediate spec were pretty common for the vast majority of the population.
Even at high-level, there were many people who actually used them. The "everybody did this" are just forum claims, reality is always more nuanced.

No.
I would, though, welcome a much lower cap on respec (5 or 10 gold).
But I refuse to get this "you can switch on the fly" shit.

5-10g holy fuck, do you remember how had it was to make gold in Vanilla, I remember not spending a single copper until I got to level 40 to buy my riding skill, then I found out I needed another 10g for the damn mount. so I went to Iron forge and started begging in Trade. I think it should be 10s lol. But for real I think Classis should release with the last patch before the Pre expansion patch. Then most of the bugs will be fixed and everything should be in game and we can have some fun.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

What this whole "debate" amounts to is that Blizzard will do what they do and as players we'll either decide it's acceptable enough to play the game or not. Dual spec is not a deal breaker for me. In fact, NONE of it will be a deal breaker as far as playing the game. If later on I decide that it's not fun then I'll stop playing. I might even bitch about it along the way and STILL play the game.

There are tons of QoL I'd like to see that would have a negligible impact on the leveling and end-game experience, but I recognize that others feel differently and whether I agree with them or not their opinion is still valid. But for both the passionate and the dispassionate, in the end we'll all be playing (or not playing) the Classic version that Blizzard felt was the right fit for the majority of what it believes the player-base will be.

Only problem with that is we don't really know who that community is now or what that player base is. It has to be pure vanilla at release. That is the canvas because if you start it off with tons of QoL changes than you can't ever go back. Then after time and that community is established and we know who is actually playing it and THEN come up with a way to count THOSE players I would be perfectly acceptable with a voting system similar to what they did with Runescape. Where a high % of that community votes for changes and it happens. I can totally accept THAT if it happens. Right now to be honest who know who is really saying what is a big question. It is really obvious that we have a TON of trolls just poking at people that want classic and they would cast a troll vote. It is also obvious we have a VERY vocal crowd of trouble makers that will shit on anyone that suggest even one pixel that will never be seen in the game gets changed one shad darker as some sort of slippery slop.

1. Release classic as it was. You can debate the "what it was" as which patch, patch cycle, or whatever, but it has to be an original as it was version.

2. Allow time to pass with these realms. This might take as long as a full patch cycle depending on how they do #1 and how long the haters hold on. Let the trolls join in, have their troll time, and then leave. Let the rose glasses come have their month or two and then leave. Let the hating trouble makers show up, find there flaw (because they will), and go back to PRs. Then you know who the base of this community really is.

3. Come up with a way to poll these people only. So no retail monkey can spam 20 accounts on the trollish answer. Or no people from PRs can fix the system and veto every single suggestion with a horde of small but motivated people. The rose glasses folks at that point won't care because they had their fix.

4. If and when things win in these polls from #3 (if #3 is even possible, remember it being that way is important) than changes can be made to the game. Then it is proven that people really want it. It is proven it came from the right people. Of course even with this you will hate people that just can't handle not being gods of their own universes and they leave.. but that will happen no matter what. But at least this way its the community that had spoken and not some dev you can point a finger at or some trolled out poll from today that would be blamed. It would be the actual community itself.

4. THEN allow small option votes to bleed though slowly. To be honest it might not all be just QoL things. A lot of it might be addons to break. A QoL change. To fix some non-game breaking bug that is there, could be fixed, but should it sort of deal. Adding in a new 5 man that was on the table but never made it. Releasing a BC server and should you be able to transfer your toon over? It is a lot of things to think about.

[Akka]

5-10g holy fuck, do you remember how had it was to make gold in Vanilla, I remember not spending a single copper until I got to level 40 to buy my riding skill, then I found out I needed another 10g for the damn mount. so I went to Iron forge and started begging in Trade. I think it should be 10s lol. But for real I think Classis should release with the last patch before the Pre expansion patch. Then most of the bugs will be fixed and everything should be in game and we can have some fun.

The POINT is not to be able to freely change spec. 10s is a joke, you're being ridiculous.
5-10 gold is already a MASSIVE reduction (the cap was 50, hello ?), let's not act like clowns and pretend it's not enough.

[Deleted]

Because it has not been there in Classic.

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5-10g holy fuck, do you remember how had it was to make gold in Vanilla, I remember not spending a single copper until I got to level 40 to buy my riding skill, then I found out I needed another 10g for the damn mount. so I went to Iron forge and started begging in Trade. I think it should be 10s lol. But for real I think Classis should release with the last patch before the Pre expansion patch. Then most of the bugs will be fixed and everything should be in game and we can have some fun.

If you cannot stomach this kind of gameplay anymore, maybe Vanilla is not for you. I know I don't want it either, but this is the reason why I support retail.

[gushDH]

I promise you a 'purist' form of classic would fail years before a "classic+" if released in today's day and age.

That's the blunt truth. The gaming community is nowhere NEAR the same as it was 13 years ago. You can't argue against that and neither can you stick your head in the sand and expect classic to survive very long in a world where $$$ and bottom lines are everything

Have you checked any of the private Vanilla servers? They are soaring with players, who play in them for more than 1 year already. The gaming community wants to play wow Vanilla. That's what the 500k signatures were for back when there was even more activity about making Vanilla servers. The "blunt truth", as you would like to say, are the facts. And 500k facts are more than your opinion, I feel like.

[Alextros]

snip

Ya sneaky bastard

[hulkgor]

You know what was in the classic game?

-40 man dungeons

- falling through the world

- Bugged C'thun impossible to kill

Give me a break with this '' give us 100% classic '' shit.
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This is you just being an ass.

40 man dungeons were a thing for a few months, they were quickly changed to 5 and a couple to 10 for a while longer (strat\scholo).
Falling through the world still happened in later expansions, woopidy doo.
C'thun was bugged for a few weeks, so? Even KJ was impossible to kill for a while on ToS, and then 7.2 released, some bosses on Nighthold were also bugged and impossible to kill for some days.

Things are bugged every launch, every patch, every update, every friggin expansion. THEY DO GET FIXED! *gasp*.

Vanilla had bugs. Legion had bugs. Bugs get fixed. BUGS AREN'T A FIXTURE.

Holy hell.

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and 500k is like bare minimum to make enough money to justify leaving the servers online

That's so wrong it hurts. Hell, there are THRIVING MMOs with 300k players like EVE, and a bunch of older ones that easily sustain themselves with a few tens of thousands.

Stop spewing bullshit, really.

500k bare minimum... lol.

[Akka]

I promise you a 'purist' form of classic would fail years before a "classic+" if released in today's day and age.

That's the blunt truth.

No, that's just you being an inflated windbag confusing his own opinion with truth.
That's basically the same reasoning which made all the trolls from Nostalrius megathread regurgitate their retarded "wall of NO" and "Blizzard would never make Vanilla server", despite all the obvious evidence of very successful private servers, until Blizzard itself shut their drooling mouth when they announced Classic servers. Now that they were deprived of their previous way of being stupid, they switched to trolling these forums with "let's destroy the point of Classic servers by bastardizing them with adding the very reason why they were wanted to begin with".

[hulkgor]

And are those run with a sub model like wow? Do you honestly think blizz's goal is to mimic those examples "success" that you just listed? Lol

EVE Online has exactly the same sub model as WoW. Monthly sub, a token option,cash shop and a 'free trial' entry access like Wow till level 20.

They even did the WoW token before wow with "PLEX", years ago.

Goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about.

[schwank05]

Because it has not been there in Classic.

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If you cannot stomach this kind of gameplay anymore, maybe Vanilla is not for you. I know I don't want it either, but this is the reason why I support retail.

I loved it, I wasn't really intending to come across as complaining, more making a joke about how long it took me unguilded to get gold. I was not in a Guild until mid-late BC. I want classic wow to be released or patched like it was back then. I never respeced I still never respec. My characters are only ever 1 spec. My Rogue will always be Combat or I guess Pirate now lol, My Druid is and always will be Resto, my Priest will always Be Disc, my DK will always be Blood... hence the reason I never play him anymore because Blood DPS was where it was at. My hunter is #BM4Life, I never change specs to fit a raid spot I change characters. I think I had my respec on my rogue up to like 5g back in Vanilla. I would live to have poison stacks for rogues back and also have the good old restrictions on class/spec combos for sure.

[op3l]

This is the problem with the now "official" vanilla servers. It was all fine and well when it only lived on private servers and in nostalgia. Now that it's official, people are starting to remember the horror it was to run a dungeon and in general do almost anything.

No point playing vanilla server if you want to turn it into the current game with all the quality of life improvements.

[Exeris]

Not sure how I feel a bout it. I want it as close to vanilla as possible and on the other hand it really sucks for 39 people waiting for 1 porting back to respec whatever we where missing.

Also wanting to pvp I had to respec twice every time, really annoying and expensive. (played tank)