[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Elim Garak]

You mean spent his entire life since he could walk as a slave working in Watto's shop taking apart and assembling things, including pod racers, and eventually used his force sensitivity to pilot pod racers for Watto?

Yeah, scavenging for a living on a sandy planet for much longer should inhibit one in their Force and Fighting ability. Having no mom nor benevolent master who provides food and roof. It couldn't help anyone to figure out how to fight and stuff. That lucky sand-hating boy.

[Shadowferal]

I dont remember 8 year old Anakin going toe to toe with Maul. Could be wrong its been a while.

Did you miss the words showing it as a comparison...?

Is the English language really this difficult?

[Halyon]

She out-fought Kylo Ren, no? Someone that was far more familiar with the Force and dueling with it and a light-saber than she was ever.
Not very believable.

No she didn't, she escaped. TFA? He had been shot by a bowcaster (which is pretty hardcore), worn down a little further by Finn, and when he fought Rey, he was trying to recruit her, not kill her. TLJ, he wanted to recruit her again, not kill her.

[Altrec]

No it doesn't. Super-dogmatic jedi and really cheesy/hammy uber-evil sith have been really annoying for years, when it's been shown that there are other approaches, hell Qui-gon was a grey jedi...we can have more of that.

It's fine that Luke doesn't find the dogma a good approach.

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She wants to learn. That's why.

Her ignoring Luke and learning from those books is the problem. The entire concept of grey Jedi is meaningless because of it.

[Logwyn]

I dont remember 8 year old Anakin going toe to toe with Maul. Could be wrong its been a while.

There's a big difference in an 8 year old and someone who is 19. You do relize that Kylo Ren doesn't really want to kill Rey?

[Shadowferal]

No she didn't, she escaped. TFA? He had been shot by a bowcaster (which is pretty hardcore), worn down a little further by Finn, and when he fought Rey, he was trying to recruit her, not kill her. TLJ, he wanted to recruit her again, not kill her.

You guys aren't going to win here.

This movie was ridiculous.

I argued a "wait-and-see" position when the mary-sue criticism was flying with the first movie.
That's done. Because all we still got was justification for that criticism.

[I Push Buttons]

Yeah, scavenging for a living on a sandy planet for much longer should inhibit one in their Force and Fighting ability. Having no mom nor benevolent master who provides food and roof. It couldn't help anyone to figure out how to fight and stuff. That lucky sand-hating boy.

For the umpteenth time, no one is complaining about her force sensitivity. They complain about her being expert at everything, having no flaws, literally being the text book definition of a Mary Sue.

And now you reply with the prototypical "wahhhh she misses her family that's her flaw, she's no Mary Sue for that one reason alone!"

[Elim Garak]

Her ignoring Luke and learning from those books is the problem. The entire concept of grey Jedi is meaningless because of it.

The entire concept of Grey Jedi is using the Whole Force. So I fail to see how keeping the Jedi books hinders that.

[PACOX]

She out-fought Kylo Ren, no? Someone that was far more familiar with the Force and dueling with it and a light-saber than she was ever.
Not very believable.

When did she out fight Kylo?

In TFA? Oh you mean when he took a boltchaster shot to the ribs, the same weapon they spent the half the movie showing how destructive it was. After he took both of them in 2v1 and wiped the floor with them?

Or that time she beat him in Last Jedi? I forgot when that happens.

[Halyon]

There's no such thing as a grey jedi. Stop it with this made up shit.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi
Uhuh.

While the term has not been used in the new movies, it has by no means been disowned by the canon either, so I think you should not infer your headcanon on things just yet, mate.

[Kirbypro]

Anakin as a kid fixed stuff, pod-raced and built si 3po.

Audience reaction: aw, high concentration of midichlorians, he's strong in the Force.

A 20 y/o something Rey fixes stuff, flies a ship and learns how to fight and use the Force.

Audience reaction: wtf? Who trained her? What is this nonsense?

Anakin is strong in the Force, he doesn't know how to do things like Force pull and Jedi mind tricks.
Rei is strong in the Force, randomly knows how to do Force pull and Jedi mind tricks.

Anakin is an experienced mechanic and engineer who built his own droid and pod racer. He can fly a ship with the help of R2-D2.
Rei is a scavenger who finds scraps in destroyed star ships to sell, has no indication that she built anything. She randomly knows how to fly and fix the pile of junk known as the Millennium Falcon.

Completely different characterizations.

[Krigaren]

So fifty years of worth of screw ups negates the previous thousands of years of peace?

Not sure about what exactly the lore is now, but the Jedi have been screwing up for a long, long time. Particularly as they distanced themselves from the Je'daii teachings of balance in use of the force. The fact that there had been no sith in thousands of years just allowed the Jedi to become that much more complacent.

This is my speculation btw. Obviously I could be entirely off-base here, but it would seem that the last 50 years of war and authoritarianism that the Jedi not only failed to prevent, but also assisted in creating, and further resulted in their own extinction would, I suppose negate the last thousand years of peace.

That line of thinking just further shits on Luke's legacy.

Not really. I think the way Luke was written in this movie is as someone who had a lot on his shoulders, and tried to re-build the Jedi into the same organization it was before, and that his failure to his students and to Ben showed him that he wasn't cut out to do such a thing. That he, in his arrogance and hubris, thought that he could fix Ben, when he couldn't. He should have feared Ben's abilities, but he didn't, just as the Jedi should have feared Anakin's, but didn't.

Again, just speculating. I need to see the movie again, and most of my take on these subjects is from what I remember of my first viewing, what I've been gleaning from a lot of conversations in different forums, and extrapolation of my knowledge of the lore up to now.

[Elim Garak]

For the umpteenth time, no one is complaining about her force sensitivity. They complain about her being expert at everything, having no flaws, literally being the text book definition of a Mary Sue.

That's a contradiction. That's force sensitivity, especially when one is a scavenger.

And now you reply with the prototypical "wahhhh she misses her family that's her flaw, she's no Mary Sue for that one reason alone!"

I don't really care how non-intellectuals call characters they don't understand. It doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the movies.

[Halyon]

You guys aren't going to win here.

This movie was ridiculous.

I argued a "wait-and-see" position when the mary-sue criticism was flying with the first movie.
That's done. Because all we still got was justification for that criticism.

I disagree. The movie had flaws, it could've been better, but I was immersed in it the majority of the time, and it took turns I didn't predict, and I was not at all disappointed by the main ones. My biggest issue was the emotional whiplash right after Luke has the awesome distraction on Krait and then dies straight afterwards.

Rey's still not a mary sue any more than Anakin and Luke. And they're not.

[Sorshen]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi
Uhuh.

While the term has not been used in the new movies, it has by no means been disowned by the canon either, so I think you should not infer your headcanon on things just yet, mate.

The EU and all the garbage fan fiction is irrelevant in this thread.

[PACOX]

You guys aren't going to win here.

This movie was ridiculous.

I argued a "wait-and-see" position when the mary-sue criticism was flying with the first movie.
That's done. Because all we still got was justification for that criticism.

She Mary Sue'd it up in TLJ? What?

She fought a couple guards, thats about it.

No one is questioning Kylo being able to hid his intention

[Altrec]

Shits on Lukes legacy? She is Lukes legacy, the kids telling tje story about Luke are his legacy. The hope in the 20 or so survivors of the Resistance are Luke's legacy. Thats what the last 10-15 mins were about. What he finally realized. The audience is supposed to see him struggling with own hang ups about his own self worth after his confrontation with Kylo/Ben shuck him.

How is she Luke's legacy? She ignored everything he said and is doing everything on her own. The survivors and by extension the kids telling the story was nothing but propaganda for the resistance. His teachings and his family are gone. Being used as propaganda and not much else isn't much of a legacy.

That being said the third movie could still fix a lot of these problems with ghost Luke appearing, but at this point I have little hope it will be any better.

[Halyon]

The EU and all the garbage fan fiction is irrelevant in this thread.

That's cute. Insults are the best arguments.

[TheTaurenOrc]

There's a big difference in an 8 year old and someone who is 19. You do relize that Kylo Ren doesn't really want to kill Rey?

Like Vader with Luke right!

Except Vader didn't get bitch-slapped even after Luke had training.

[ohiostate124]

This lady is the new WORST character in the entire Star Wars saga. I actually feel bad for ever hating Jar Jar Binks. #SorryGeorge

That honor goes to Rose