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  1. #21
    Deleted
    I really thought I would hate it, then got the 4P, went Demonic and kept asking myself why I didn't switch earlier! I LOVE it! Feels savage! RAWR!

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    And spamming CS is not? Or move from side to side to collect souls when needed is so hard?

    Cmon, noone said CB/nemesis build is harder. Just some poeple (myself included) just preferd the T20 playstyle, nothing more, nothing less. I dont know why you need to jump on everyone with this "braindead" crap while the other spec is not that hard either.
    Honestly, I preferred the Cb/Nem build. But it's nice to have a new playstyle to mess with
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglytoes View Post
    I don't understand when people say they don't like spamming demon's bite... we just came from a tier spamming chaos strike and demon blades was a passive generator... doesn't get much more boring than that.
    I suppose it was okay to spam one thing and react/fill with other skills.

    Now i literally have to spam to be able to spam. So double the spamming..

    And now i only use 2 skills ever. Both that need to be spammed.


    In T20 you intermittently use sweep, felblade when it triggers, throw glaive when fury starved, fel rush when even throw was on cd.
    I used 5 non-cd skills all the time.


    Now it's...lasers and spam your 2 spam-skills...fantastic. No idea what makes this more engaging - the need to run into aoe or out of "must stand here" spots to get souls?
    Less mobile, no reacting. Hell, you could basically macro the stupid bite to every chaos strike.

  4. #24
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    And spamming CS is not? Or move from side to side to collect souls when needed is so hard?

    Cmon, noone said CB/nemesis build is harder. Just some poeple (myself included) just preferd the T20 playstyle, nothing more, nothing less. I dont know why you need to jump on everyone with this "braindead" crap while the other spec is not that hard either.
    I wasn't commenting on either playstyle - I'm commenting on First Blood inculcating Blade Dance into the rotation at lower target counts.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaim View Post
    I suppose it was okay to spam one thing and react/fill with other skills.

    Now i literally have to spam to be able to spam. So double the spamming..

    And now i only use 2 skills ever. Both that need to be spammed.


    In T20 you intermittently use sweep, felblade when it triggers, throw glaive when fury starved, fel rush when even throw was on cd.
    I used 5 non-cd skills all the time.


    Now it's...lasers and spam your 2 spam-skills...fantastic. No idea what makes this more engaging - the need to run into aoe or out of "must stand here" spots to get souls?
    Less mobile, no reacting. Hell, you could basically macro the stupid bite to every chaos strike.
    So you went from using

    Chaos Strike, Blade Dance, Felblade, Throw Glaive/Felrush

    to

    Chaos Strike, Eye Beam, Demons Bite

    and this is waaaaay worse because you don't have to use Throw Glaive because your RNG auto attack proc didn't proc? Felrush is still a mobility tool so it might aswell still be included.

    I don't get this Demons Bite hate, with 60% crit and AotHG you press it so scarcely... on a 3:02 Garothi kill I pressed Fel Blade 26 times and overcapped about 20-30 fury overall, on a 2:59 Garothi kill I pressed Demons Bite 32 times and overcapped 10-20 fury, so I pressed DB 6 times more then Fel Blade, where in the earth is that spam? The Spam still is Chaos Strike as it has always been, gear correctly and soak soals when you need them and not whenever you like and Demons Bite is not even close to be a spam skill

  6. #26
    Well to be completely honest "set is crap" still applies. My entire gear is 5 ilvl higher with T21 and dps sim's are exactly the same.

  7. #27
    This tier is what is really truly separating the bad dh's from the good ones. If you're finding yourself doing lower dps with higher ilvl t21 then you are simply not playing well. Do a lot of m+ and you'll get better. The 1000 or so m+ I did as demonic is finally paying off and i'm parsing 99% top 10 on almost every mythic fight with several 100% logs on heroic and normal and would've had a 100% mythic log the other night had someone literally not beaten the previous #1 by a fair margin in the 10 minutes prior to our kill.
    Last edited by Measure; 2017-12-17 at 04:07 AM.

  8. #28
    I thought I was going to but after a couple weeks I love T21. Much more involved and fun than T20.

    Its super fun and very effective.

  9. #29
    Yes, the tier bonus is fucking joke. I dont even use Eye beam on bosses.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Synthium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirofune View Post
    Personal experience?

    I love the playstyle. Feels fluid, you've stuff to react to and it's way more engaging with no downtime.

    I just don't like the RNG involved, but I love how fast paced it is.
    Yeah but the RNG as Demonic ain't nearly as bad as it was with the old build. With the old build, you HAD to have good RNG inside a very small tight window because the build revolved around frontloading everything into your cd phase. Now, while you still play Nemesis, if you have bad RNG at the start, you're probably gonna have INSANE RNG later on in the fight. Atleast from my experience, my dps fluctuates by +/- 3% between pulls, which mostly comes down to crits. In the old build, I'd sometimes have such huge oscillations that I wanted to reroll there and then. One pull I'd end up 1,9million dps, other I'd end at 1,2m, all due to bad fury gen or no Annihilation crits during cds.

    On topic - only thing I miss now is the ability to track souls via WA or some built-in system. Alas, it does not exist, they are impossible to track.
    Burn it. BURN IT!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    Yeah but the RNG as Demonic ain't nearly as bad as it was with the old build. With the old build, you HAD to have good RNG inside a very small tight window because the build revolved around frontloading everything into your cd phase. Now, while you still play Nemesis, if you have bad RNG at the start, you're probably gonna have INSANE RNG later on in the fight. Atleast from my experience, my dps fluctuates by +/- 3% between pulls, which mostly comes down to crits. In the old build, I'd sometimes have such huge oscillations that I wanted to reroll there and then. One pull I'd end up 1,9million dps, other I'd end at 1,2m, all due to bad fury gen or no Annihilation crits during cds.

    On topic - only thing I miss now is the ability to track souls via WA or some built-in system. Alas, it does not exist, they are impossible to track.
    That's where you're wrong.

    Demonic RNG is greater than DBlades. Can be easily seen by simming.

    F.e.



    That's the variance of Demonic. You can sim yourself and check T20 variance, you'll see is smaller.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    I already prepared weeks ahead when the set was anounced and even though everyone rightfully hated it, i started playing demonic just to practice and actually, i mostly like it very much, just the soulfragments need some more love. That's the only annoying part tbh. Imo they could just be absorbed right away since the only time you realy stack them is on poull/when meta gets ready again, otherwise you wan't them immediately

  13. #33
    Lower chance for greater reward (since it is fury and 5 sec off EB and CN). Though there are things you can do to hedge your bets on having fragments for that precious Betrayers Fury window. Helps but the RNG can still hit you like a sledgehammer. You tend to REALLY notice the dry spells of fragments as it feels like it takes forever to get back to EB.

    However while the RNG is worse the spikes and troughs of dps are better. You don't spike as high but you also don't end up plummeting in dps from being a full minute from any dps boost.

    The extra survivability from being in meta a lot more is rather nice as well. (still generally take NW, as in most cases soul rending is a tad overkill in the healing dept, and NW is nice for spikes)
    Last edited by dark666105; 2017-12-17 at 04:31 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    Yes, the tier bonus is fucking joke. I dont even use Eye beam on bosses.
    Then you have no one but yourself to blame for your horrible dps.

  15. #35
    I prefer a lot more demonic build :|

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Svisalith View Post
    There are a lot of small things that many people do not consider at all or do wrong which make a big difference. Can you post a log or gameplay vid to check for a range of mistakes?

    The DPS variance of t21 331 demonic is almost identical to t20 222 CB on 5 min patchwerk simcraft profiles

    My heroic Argus performance since getting t21-4p is a lot higher than that, around 2.4m when he reached 50% on one of my best pulls but i don't think it's been below 2.0 unless i made an unforgivable mistake like resetting the buff stack.
    Pretty much, make sure to start your meta with an eye-beam to extent the duration and try to eye-beam the second you exit meta for even more time in meta.

  17. #37
    aboslutely loving new demonic build! more fluid and entertaining that "1-2" wait 2 min for cd's" old build

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    Then you have no one but yourself to blame for your horrible dps.
    Its actually a dps loss if you use it on a single target, do your research.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    Its actually a dps loss if you use it on a single target, do your research.
    With T21? Are you high?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    With T21? Are you high?
    NOT with tier 21, with T21 it is a dps increase. But its a pretty dull set bonus if ask me.

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