Why not have Dual Spec?

[Akka]

Again. 500k is not successful.

/facepalm

You really have no clue.

[Kynario]

For one thing, because you're meant to commit to the talent choices you make. You're not just a Warrior (or whatever class you pick), you're a protection warrior, or a fury warrior, or an arms warrior. Whichever you choose is meant to be a commitment to separate you from any other warrior, that's the whole point of talent points. Allowing people to respec freely or having access to two sets at the same time cheapens that whole idea.

WoW was already rather casual for its time in that it allowed you to change it to begin with, imagine if every talent you chose was permanent, and the only way to "reverse" it would be to reroll the character. You want to farm things as a tank/healer? Find a friend who can deal the damage for you whilst you keep them alive one way or another. It's an MMO, and the whole point, especially back then, was to play with friends.

Very well said! This.

[anon5123]

No point playing vanilla server if you want to turn it into the current game with all the quality of life improvements.

all the quality of life improvements

Why do people keep doing this? "all" QoL improvements? Who said that we have to have """all""" of them?

Is it impossible for Blizzard to just make a couple changes? Because you purists seem to think so. That, if we add AoE looting and increase paladin buffs to 30min, then Blizzard 100% WILL add LFD and cross-realm and LFR and instant-60 and heirlooms

as if there's no middle ground anywhere

[chrisnumbers]

alright, dont play classic with a computer made after 2005 and don't play with 16:9 either, also don't use anything more than a 256k dsl or dial up.

Nice try, but those aren't WOW features.

[Bildur]

I strongly agree with Akka here. Vanilla was about team-play, not topping a non existant (at the time) meter. Plenty of specs was about utility, most noticeble Feral Druids that was the real "trade of all Jacks" (not particular strong in anything but could step in and fullfill any role decently when the need arised).

I can't wait to re-live Vanilla but I wonder how many new players can get into the Vanilla mindset and learn patience and true team-work (keep an eye on your team mates and adjust accordingly, rather than go solo to win a dps race that'll get your team mates killed etc.).

[Deleted]

I strongly agree with Akka here. Vanilla was about team-play, not topping a non existant (at the time) meter. Plenty of specs was about utility, most noticeble Feral Druids that was the real "trade of all Jacks" (not particular strong in anything but could step in and fullfill any role decently when the need arised).

I can't wait to re-live Vanilla but I wonder how many new players can get into the Vanilla mindset and learn patience and true team-work (keep an eye on your team mates and adjust accordingly, rather than go solo to win a dps race that'll get your team mates killed etc.).

That's weird I remember it completely different. Maybe it's just about the people you played with? Saying meters didn't matter is a lie, nothing was more desired than syncing dmg meters (swstats was first iirc) to get mostly accurate numbers.

I mean nobody, not even in retail dictates "how to play the game correct" but if you want to clear content as "goal of the game" there are efficient and less efficient ways. People with the same mindset will stack to each other, always been that way. Some people will not look at forums, wowprogress - not care about playing the game "skillful" others will - and when they meet in azeroth as enemies the outcome is clear but who had more fun? Who knows. That's the nature of all MMORPGs.

[Deleted]

Why do people keep doing this? "all" QoL improvements? Who said that we have to have """all""" of them?

Is it impossible for Blizzard to just make a couple changes? Because you purists seem to think so. That, if we add AoE looting and increase paladin buffs to 30min, then Blizzard 100% WILL add LFD and cross-realm and LFR and instant-60 and heirlooms

as if there's no middle ground anywhere

No, there's no middle ground, because why should they add the particular QoL things you want and not things others want?

Connected flight paths.
Mounts from level 20.
Hearthstone cooldown reduced to 30 minutes.
Spells no longer cost reagents.
Spells no longer have ranks.
You learn spells automatically without visiting a class trainer.
Dual/tripple spec so you can respec anywhere, any-time.
Classes "balanced" to make it more "fair".
Hunters no longer have a dead-zone.
Hunter no longer require ammunition.
Hunter pets no longer need to be fed.
Hunter pets no longer need to be levelled up.
etc

There's so many things that seems small at first but quickly adds up and leaves us with something that is not retail, and most certainly not vanilla, in other words something that's a complete waste of everyone's time.

[Occam-OC]

Only problem with that is we don't really know who that community is now or what that player base is. It has to be pure vanilla at release. That is the canvas because if you start it off with tons of QoL changes than you can't ever go back. Then after time and that community is established and we know who is actually playing it and THEN come up with a way to count THOSE players I would be perfectly acceptable with a voting system similar to what they did with Runescape. Where a high % of that community votes for changes and it happens. I can totally accept THAT if it happens. Right now to be honest who know who is really saying what is a big question. It is really obvious that we have a TON of trolls just poking at people that want classic and they would cast a troll vote. It is also obvious we have a VERY vocal crowd of trouble makers that will shit on anyone that suggest even one pixel that will never be seen in the game gets changed one shad darker as some sort of slippery slop.

1. Release classic as it was. You can debate the "what it was" as which patch, patch cycle, or whatever, but it has to be an original as it was version.

2. Allow time to pass with these realms. This might take as long as a full patch cycle depending on how they do #1 and how long the haters hold on. Let the trolls join in, have their troll time, and then leave. Let the rose glasses come have their month or two and then leave. Let the hating trouble makers show up, find there flaw (because they will), and go back to PRs. Then you know who the base of this community really is.

3. Come up with a way to poll these people only. So no retail monkey can spam 20 accounts on the trollish answer. Or no people from PRs can fix the system and veto every single suggestion with a horde of small but motivated people. The rose glasses folks at that point won't care because they had their fix.

4. If and when things win in these polls from #3 (if #3 is even possible, remember it being that way is important) than changes can be made to the game. Then it is proven that people really want it. It is proven it came from the right people. Of course even with this you will hate people that just can't handle not being gods of their own universes and they leave.. but that will happen no matter what. But at least this way its the community that had spoken and not some dev you can point a finger at or some trolled out poll from today that would be blamed. It would be the actual community itself.

4. THEN allow small option votes to bleed though slowly. To be honest it might not all be just QoL things. A lot of it might be addons to break. A QoL change. To fix some non-game breaking bug that is there, could be fixed, but should it sort of deal. Adding in a new 5 man that was on the table but never made it. Releasing a BC server and should you be able to transfer your toon over? It is a lot of things to think about.

That sir, is a well constructed reply and I appreciate the response. Most of this I agree with to some degree, but I don't ever see Blizzard running an "official" poll. Even if you're dealing with players that are registered only to a classic server, it would still be too easy for bad actors to skew the results. Blizzard's track record seems to be reading the forums over time and gathering information slowly from there.

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of Warcraft players never visit the forums, and fewer still post.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

That sir, is a well constructed reply and I appreciate the response. Most of this I agree with to some degree, but I don't ever see Blizzard running an "official" poll. Even if you're dealing with players that are registered only to a classic server, it would still be too easy for bad actors to skew the results. Blizzard's track record seems to be reading the forums over time and gathering information slowly from there.

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of Warcraft players never visit the forums, and fewer still post.

Well if we cannot really every have community input beyond forum bait and troll than I don't see how you can really make changes. Input is not forum conversations. That is not community interaction and honestly that is all they got now. Forums just don't work in either conversation or polling because you are right its to easy for a small but motivated crowd to blow up forums and a poll upon it can be cheesed any number of ways from VPNs messing with IPs, people with multiple accounts, or any number of things that I just haven't thought of because honestly I don't do that sort of shit.

You do have ways to poll that might not be exercised now but can certainly be done with a little work. First of all have in in the b-client. The client that can recognize you played x amount of hours in classic (btw they do not announce this hour number and it changes upward with time so not easy to discover, sit, and park accounts) and can recognize you as a single account thus a single vote. Now you might argue that one person might have 20 accounts and they play all of them evenly and they play an absolute ton.. but honestly? That is going pretty far and throwing like what 300 bucks a month away (if its sub based, which for this argument I accept as so) and countless hours on top of it. All Blizzard could really say to something like that is well played and thanks for the money and I wouldn't blame them. I doubt a many and specifically trolls would do something like that for example and if they did than I doubt ENOUGH of them would to make a SERIOUS difference.

That is mostly because it wouldn't be a (numbers fabricated for ease of math above all else) 50,001 votes yes, and 49,999 votes no and it goes though in these type of things. Now it if its 70,001 yes and 29,999 no suddenly it becomes a lot bigger argument and a pretty strong community driven vote. Of course Blizzard would have the final veto in anything. So if the community votes in all males having a dick hanging out of their pants and all female characters being topless with massive tits that bounce around than it wouldn't happen because Blizzard doesn't want it. Not to mention they would control the topics being voted on to begin with so something like that wouldn't even make it to the table. In a REALLY huge way they completely control and drive the vote anyway. They let what they will allow be voted on and most likely would be something they are not sure of themselves or know is highly debated.

But at the end of the day you are 100% right about the polling thing with ways we know right now. Just like I said it would need to be something inventive and new that cannot be jerked around like most polls on the internet where people cannot accept actual truth and instead force reality into there will by cheesing them anyway possible.

[Deleted]

I loved it, I wasn't really intending to come across as complaining, more making a joke about how long it took me unguilded to get gold. I was not in a Guild until mid-late BC. I want classic wow to be released or patched like it was back then. I never respeced I still never respec. My characters are only ever 1 spec. My Rogue will always be Combat or I guess Pirate now lol, My Druid is and always will be Resto, my Priest will always Be Disc, my DK will always be Blood... hence the reason I never play him anymore because Blood DPS was where it was at. My hunter is #BM4Life, I never change specs to fit a raid spot I change characters. I think I had my respec on my rogue up to like 5g back in Vanilla. I would live to have poison stacks for rogues back and also have the good old restrictions on class/spec combos for sure.

Oh yeah, farming herbs for months and selling to a raid guild to get enough gold for my epic mount.

I am also kinda sad that I have skilled lockpicking on my rogue and all this progress got lost when they made you level the skill automatically. IDK there are some flavour things which got lost on the way. Though I don't miss reagents that much. Never had much bag space because I am a collector, and getting rid of these things, also being able to put up mage and healthstone tables was a great relief for me.

I am glad having many convenient things in WoW now, but I would not want them in the recreated Vanilla WoW, because it would not be the same game anymore. Fun fact, I play many characters with one spec only, because it's my favorite spec for that character. I only use all specs in this addon for getting mage tower challenges done. And I have leveled a holy priest, holy paladin and resto druid back then in Classic, because I wanted to heal on these characters, and did not want to respec every time I want to go into a dungeon.

[Centaurus87]

No, there's no middle ground, because why should they add the particular QoL things you want and not things others want?

Connected flight paths.
Mounts from level 20.
Hearthstone cooldown reduced to 30 minutes.
Spells no longer cost reagents.
Spells no longer have ranks.
You learn spells automatically without visiting a class trainer.
Dual/tripple spec so you can respec anywhere, any-time.
Classes "balanced" to make it more "fair".
Hunters no longer have a dead-zone.
Hunter no longer require ammunition.
Hunter pets no longer need to be fed.
Hunter pets no longer need to be levelled up.
etc

There's so many things that seems small at first but quickly adds up and leaves us with something that is not retail, and most certainly not vanilla, in other words something that's a complete waste of everyone's time.

of course there is middle-ground. Why deal in absolutes when there can be clear arguments for certain QoL features. Personally I would like Dual-Spec because it was such a bloody hassle to respec in the morning to do dailies and respec in the evening to heal for raids. But I can easily see how it wouldn't be a part of the classic vanilla experience.
But no connected flight paths? Yet another reason Purists are hated. You WANT people to keep sitting at their computer when on a flight path that takes 8 minutes? Then why play WoW at all? You clearly don't like people.
And Hearthstones not to 30 minutes? Well I can see why, but I'm having doubts about your personal motives for it now.
There are plenty of things they can put it that are 'new' without breaking the game. Meeting stones would be a damned good idea, the old ones. There's always that one guy in the party that had to do something quick, and there's not always a Warlock around.
Or what about LFG chat? That would be too game breaking to you too? Because people would be able to look for a party while not in a city I bet.

The rest of your list I'm not even gonna touch because it's obvious why blizz won't even consider putting those in, you probably just couldn't think of any ACTUALLY good examples.
Next time try and think of reasons why NOT to implement something. Because there are plenty of things Blizz did through the years because they were just broken. Like talents, flight paths and their mounts, portals, boats and zepelins, ways to obtain proffesion items, and I bet there's some more I couldn't think of.

If Blizz TRULY did what you purists talk about, they would release the 1.0 in a ported format with all its flaws and bugs and leave it at that. So that only you purists would be able to play it... without content past lvl 50 and stuff, you know. Is that really what you want?

(on a side note, maybe also consider what other people might want. "Me, Me, Me." Isn't exactly a popular point-of-view)

[Centaurus87]

No, there's no middle ground, because why should they add the particular QoL things you want and not things others want?

Connected flight paths.
Mounts from level 20.
Hearthstone cooldown reduced to 30 minutes.
Spells no longer cost reagents.
Spells no longer have ranks.
You learn spells automatically without visiting a class trainer.
Dual/tripple spec so you can respec anywhere, any-time.
Classes "balanced" to make it more "fair".
Hunters no longer have a dead-zone.
Hunter no longer require ammunition.
Hunter pets no longer need to be fed.
Hunter pets no longer need to be levelled up.
etc

There's so many things that seems small at first but quickly adds up and leaves us with something that is not retail, and most certainly not vanilla, in other words something that's a complete waste of everyone's time.

of course there is middle-ground. Why deal in absolutes when there can be clear arguments for certain QoL features. Personally I would like Dual-Spec because it was such a bloody hassle to respec in the morning to do dailies and respec in the evening to heal for raids. But I can easily see how it wouldn't be a part of the classic vanilla experience.
But no connected flight paths? Yet another reason Purists are hated. You WANT people to keep sitting at their computer when on a flight path that takes 8 minutes? Then why play WoW at all? You clearly don't like people.
And Hearthstones not to 30 minutes? Well I can see why, but I'm having doubts about your personal motives for it now.
There are plenty of things they can put in that are 'new' without breaking the game. Meeting stones would be a damned good idea, the old ones. There's always that one guy in the party that had to do something quick, and there's not always a Warlock around.
Or what about LFG chat? That would be too game breaking to you too? Because people would be able to look for a party while not in a city I bet.

The rest of your list I'm not even gonna touch because it's obvious why blizz won't even consider putting those in, you probably just couldn't think of any ACTUALLY good examples.
Next time try and think of reasons why NOT to implement something. Because there are plenty of things Blizz did through the years because they were just broken. Like talents, flight paths and their mounts, portals, boats and zepelins, ways to obtain proffesion items, and I bet there's some more I couldn't think of.

If Blizz TRULY did what you purists talk about, they would release the 1.0 in a ported format with all its flaws and bugs and leave it at that. So that only you purists would be able to play it... without content past lvl 50 and stuff, you know. Is that really what you want?

(on a side note, maybe also consider what other people might want. "Me, Me, Me." Isn't exactly a popular point-of-view)