"go play retail then" is getting old

[Deleted]

You all have this fantastic ability to forget the past and claim your proposed changes won't hurt the game. Yet, the past shows Vanilla WoW, without these changes was more popular than retail WoW with these changes, is today. But like Nostradamus, you apparently have the secret sight to know - few QoL changes won't hurt the game. You can't seem to agree on what those QoL changes are. But it's ok, they won't hurt. LFR will make raiding better. Dual specs and free switching will save the game, auto loot won't hurt a bit .. etc etc. It's been endless flow of "stuff that should be added" ever since this forum started. Everyone has their own facourite. And you *just know* it won't hurt anyone - so everyone should take it as a fact and agree with your proposed fantastic changes.

Excuse if I'm sceptical. I know what worked 13 years ago. I played that version of WoW. I've played ever since until recently, when the changes to the modern WoW just got too much to stomach. There is a track record of what worked.

So how about, we start from that proven good version and see if it works again before adding countless number of suggested "improvements" from current day shit-WoW? Hmm? Maybe? And if that doesn't capture the zeitgeist, then go ahead and implement your LFRs, your dual specs and whatever the fuck else you guys are pushing here almost daily.

You think I'm a purist for wanting to play vanilla "as-is". But at the same time you and your ilk are pushing changes without consideration daily and magically claiming "it's ok, it won't hurt", while there is 10 years of proof these changes did nothing but hurt the game and the community.

OK... I say "will not ruin the interest", you understand "will not ruin the game". Its really difficult to discuss in those conditions. Also you assume I'm asking for dual spec and lfr, which Im not. You assume too much dude. Multimailing is not LFR. Zone loot is not dual spec. From there, I dont feel concerned by a huge part of your post. In fact, between us two, you are the only one talking about lfr and dual spec. I'm not asking for those 2 features. You guys get hysterical and exagerate everything. Like 13yo kids.....

[maomoa]

OK... I say "will not ruin the interest", you understand "will not ruin the game". Its really difficult to discuss in those conditions. Also you assume I'm asking for dual spec and lfr, which Im not. You assume too much dude. Multimailing is not LFR. Zone loot is not dual spec. From there, I dont feel concerned by a huge part of your post. In fact, between us two, you are the only one talking about lfr and dual spec. I'm not asking for those 2 features. You guys get hysterical and exagerate everything. Like 13yo kids.....

It doesn't matter if you specifically ask for it because someone else will. Your idea is the fallacy of the commons. "It's just a small change request from me," which when magnified by everyone who wants changes becomes BfA, complete with zone scaling (and mobs that still won't kill you if you pull more than one).

All these little requests add up to a Homer Car

[Deleted]

I'm not asking for those 2 features.

It was more of a generic answer to the threads that pop up in this forum almost daily.

There's a poll on first page that claims Vanilla systems are archaic and "Transmog, Dungeon Finder, LFR, among other things are factual, non-subjective improvements to the game" there's also a "Why not have Dual Spec?" below that and you only have to scroll back couple of pages to find "Multi mailing", "Connecting all the continents flight paths", "Not losing all 2H weapon skill progress", someone requesting instances that never were part of vanilla, someone wanting vanilla M+ and someone suggesting the new world scaling tech. etc. etc.

It's a endless list of "this should be in vanilla because I think it wouldn't hurt". It's kinda tiresome, so please excuse me if I'm cranky. It wasn't my intention to blame you personally.

Shifting through the shitposting and trolling is tiresome and annoying. Hence it's easier to say "go play retail" as response.

I'd just like to have a plain, goddamn vanilla server. Like it was at some 1.xx patch level. That's all.
Once we've had it and it has failed (like many posting their "improvement suggestions" seem to think it will) go ahead and mess it up with all of those features. I don't care.

But can we just have a normal, legal, Blizzard supported, vanilla server first to start with?
Too much to ask?

[mittacc]

One thing that people at large and people on this forum especially should learn, is that "your opinion" doesn't mean "everyone". Really.
When I leveled my priestess, I NEVER put ANY point EVER in shadow, and I specced from the get-go as a pure healer. Keep your "nobody did X" with your own preconception and don't project yourself on others, thanks.

True, but I don't see how it's relevant to the fact that it wasn't especially painful to level up as a healer (well, at least as a holy priest, can't speak for druid as I leveled as a feral, because cats are fun).

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The argument that Classic and Vanilla are different is an entirely made-up weird idea that was born on the forum just to be able to grasp at straws about what can or can not be changed. It's nonsensical and completely artificial to begin with.

Okay so the fact that blizzard has adressed the issues of leveling as tank/healer several times doesn't mean anything? It couldn't possibly be that you made a horrible mistake and took way longer to level than you had to?

Hell, it's still idiotic to level as a healer today. If I didn't have dual spec I would never even consider to heal dungeons while leveling and I'm a healer main.

[anon5123]

It's still a breach of contract, since the ToS that Blizzard has done is legally binding. Correct it isn't really illegal, but Blizz has full rights to issue a punishment if they can prove you broke ToS this way.

I never said anything about TOS, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up over and over

Someone said it was illegal to play on private servers

that's wrong

Warlocks? Shadow priests? They were strong, especially the former.

Warlocks didn't use DoTs in raids, only shadowbolt because of debuff limit.

Spriest was garbage in PvE because you need debuff slots and you run out of mana very fast.

They were very much viable. The fact that you think that lack of taunt is something that makes a tank nonviable is mind boggling and shows complete misunderstand of the way threat worked in vanilla.

Not just the lack of a taunt, but much lower threat, lower defenses overall, and talents that go against itemization (you need to be crit in order to proc redoubt...lol), and paladin runs out of mana very fast, whereas warrior can just keep going and going and going

Paladin also has 0 defensive cooldowns, whereas warrior has 2

You could tank MC with a paladin simply because the fights are like 1-2 minutes and OOMing isn't an issue

anything higher, no

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It doesn't matter if you specifically ask for it because someone else will. Your idea is the fallacy of the commons. "It's just a small change request from me," which when magnified by everyone who wants changes becomes BfA, complete with zone scaling (and mobs that still won't kill you if you pull more than one).

nice slippery slope argument

[Wiedzemir]

Warlocks didn't use DoTs in raids, only shadowbolt because of debuff limit.

Spriest was garbage in PvE because you need debuff slots and you run out of mana very fast.

Who said anything about PvE and raids? Again, let's repeat it slowly as it seems like you can't understand the simple concept:

You... choose ... specialization ... for ... the ... activity!


If you want 1 spec fits all: well... go play retail then.

[Jaylock]

Dual Spec does break the immersion in your character, the commited choice you take- it should be important!

Then why did they have a way in *GASP* vanilla to change your spec? lol, another flaw in logic from the "vanilla" crowd.

[Specialka]

Who said anything about PvE and raids? Again, let's repeat it slowly as it seems like you can't understand the simple concept:

You... choose ... specialization ... for ... the ... activity!


If you want 1 spec fits all: well... go play retail then.

So what about ppl that plays shaman, for instance, and wanted to dps? Shitty game design.

[ShimmerSwirl]

The reason 'go back to retail' is uttered so often is because it is the most sane, logical piece of advice one can give. People are asking for a game with feature x, y, z, that game is already available on retail. It simply makes no sense to make a duplicate game when the entire purpose of Classic WoW is for it to be different from retail.

Its amazing how many people (mostly newer players I assume) think that the only difference between classic and retail is the content. People don't want Classic simply so they can do old world quests, or run MC again. Vanilla was an entirely different experience from top to bottom. Honestly, just play it and you'll get it.

[ShimmerSwirl]

So what about ppl that plays shaman, for instance, and wanted to dps? Shitty game design.

Reroll. Harsh but true. Class choice matters a lot more. Choices in general matter more. One of many reason people like vanilla.

[Wiedzemir]

So what about ppl that plays shaman, for instance, and wanted to dps? Shitty game design.

What about people who play mage and want to heal? Shitty game design.

[Forogil]

Who said anything about PvE and raids? Again, let's repeat it slowly as it seems like you can't understand the simple concept:

You... choose ... specialization ... for ... the ... activity!

Now let me explain how it works in Legion:

You choose specialization and talents for the activity. You choose crucible traits for your preferred activity - and you cannot change it freely.

In Vanilla it was: You choose talents for the activity.
The talents were grouped into specializations, but that was largely irrelevant (was changed later).

There have also been times where glyphs, artifact talents etc have mattered; overall the relevant choices have increased.

Sometimes you keep a sub-optimal choice because it is good enough.

[MardestyGSOG]

Dual spec is game breaking. Packaged mail, guild banks, etc I'd be fine with, but dual spec has a massive effect on the population. Resources will be much harder to get as now the whole server has a farming spec, now healers can roll need on dps gear and steal from the real dps players, the amount of overfarming without having daily quests to beef up the server economy will lead to mats being harder to come by yet selling for far less over the long run. It's a chain reaction of bad shit that you don't even consider

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So what about ppl that plays shaman, for instance, and wanted to dps? Shitty game design.

If you're rolling a hybrid class on a mom made in 2004 with the expectation of playing a pure pewpew meter-man, then you fucked up. I'm likely rolling a shaman and I would never for once second think about dosing at 60.

[I Cannot Fap To That]

it was welcomed by EVERYONE.

So you polled the complete playerbase and they said the same thing. Wow you must have a ton of resources at your disposal to ask 8 million people from all over the world.

[Heladys]

If you want to play vanilla, then play vanilla.

If you want to play retail, then go play retail.

This isn't hard, people.

[ItachiZaku]

Let's assume I said I did not welcome dual specialization when it was released. How will you change your statement now?

to be fair, dual spec ruins the RP aspect of many classes. I did not welcome dual spec.

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If the vanilla design (hybrid tax) was so bad, why are people clamoring for vanilla?

Their spec was useful, that's why. They are basically just really selfish people.

[AceofH]

to be fair, dual spec ruins the RP aspect of many classes. I did not welcome dual spec.

that's his point. the OP claims EVERYONE universally was happy to have Dual Spec. the OP was pointing out this was not true.

I also did not enjoy it. between that, buff homogenization, everyone getting area of effect spells, and the removal of the hybrid tax i saw blizzard take a heavy hand in both dumbing down the game and catering to the hybrids more then they should have. as a good example of this, by the end of wrath we had seen a notable drop in the numbers of people playing both rogues and warlocks and by the end of cataclysm they had become the least played classes. they have resided there, fighting with monks for the least played class since.

[Wiedzemir]

Their spec was useful, that's why. They are basically just really selfish people.

Said the person who's tunnel-visioned into raiding and wants his chosen spec to perform the best in raids because he apparently chose something that was never meant for raiding. I'm surprising why you people aren't asking holy priest to be competitive DPS as it's the same level of reasoning there.

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...removal of the hybrid tax....

I hate this change. This coupled with dual spec was like spit in the face of everyone who played pure DPS classes.

[AceofH]

Said the person who's tunnel-visioned into raiding and wants his chosen spec to perform the best in raids because he apparently chose something that was never meant for raiding. I'm surprising why you people aren't asking holy priest to be competitive DPS as it's the same level of reasoning there.

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I hate this change. This coupled with dual spec was like spit in the face of everyone who played pure DPS classes.

you ain't joking. especially considering that while buffs were homogenized to prevent stacking, hybrids still had the mass majority

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Raid-Stacking

according to this - actual buffs

most hybrids still brought 3-4 buffs to the party, meanwhile most pures were lucky to bring 2. Rogues only brought Expose Armor (DPS loss to use), MNP (Never used), and WP (DPS Loss, while others it was part of the rotation), and no buffs at all.

[ItachiZaku]

Said the person who's tunnel-visioned into raiding and wants his chosen spec to perform the best in raids because he apparently chose something that was never meant for raiding. I'm surprising why you people aren't asking holy priest to be competitive DPS as it's the same level of reasoning there.

My class was pretty solid for awhile/most of wows run (shadow priest) and those that said it wasn't, clearly weren't good at it. I'll probably just PVP, if I end up doing anything in classic.