[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Armourboy]

Finally got to see it. The movie itself is entertaining and fun to watch, as a huge Star Wars fan though the story was meh. I basically have the same opinions of certain things as most have mentioned on this page.
I didn't like the " get off my lawn " aspect of Luke.
Leia in space? Glad to see her use the force finally but as it happened I pretty much /facepalmed.
Snoke just dead...well we hardly knew you?
Could have pretty much left anything involving Fin out of the movie and you wouldn't have even noticed.

I read an article on why Snoke wasn't explained, basically the justification was he wasn't what mattered in the movie and they didn't explain Palpatine in the originals. Just wanted to bonk the guy. This isn't 1977, people then hadn't been fans for decades and wanted to know this stuff. Like I said, I enjoyed the movie, but it felt like they were in a massive hurry to go nowhere with the story.

Oh and as my wife mentioned, at least the dialog wasn't crappy as hell like when Lucas was writing lol.

[Deleted]

It isn't "rebels vs. oppressive regime" yet. In TFA was a militarist faction against a weak Republic, now in TLJ was a militarist faction against the survivors of the broken Republic. We have yet to see the First Order to establish control over the entire galaxy, right now they only got military dominance.

They were still called "the resistance" and they were vastly outnumbered in every sense, which is what I would call rebels.

And that's kinda my problem; they say things in the movies that have no anchoring in the world we are shown. They speak of the republic, but it does nothing so really it doesn't exist. They speak of FO as a faction but they're pretty much unstoppable and have endless resources so in reality they are far more powerful than the Empire was ever shown to be.

[Skroe]

A really corny off-brand Emperor.

I actually wish the film had less Snoke. Also I wish fewer people had to say his name, Jesus could they have picked something sillier than "Supreme leader Snoke"?

On the one hand, the Emperor had no real backstory in the original films either. They didn't even say his name. But on the other the existence of Snoke raises a lot more questions - it kind of follows that the evil Empire has some twisted old Emperor in the original trilogy so maybe you can just shrug and say the audience basically gets the gist. But Snoke was apparently around through all the previous films and had something like Emperor level Force powers, and yet nobody mentioned him before. Luke and Leia both knew he was corrupting Kylo but neither mentions attempting to find and/or confront him over it. Or that they had any knowledge of who he was either.

So I can acknowledge that even though I really don't want to know who Snoke was, it's a big problem from a narrative perspective.

I guess the character of Snoke is kind of like the whole movie - you could argue that the concept is sound, but the execution is bad, and overall it leaves the audience frustrated and deflated. And honestly - did it really need to exist at all?

The parts about Snoke in this are spot on.

In the Original Trilogy, prior to the Prequels that came out, the "identity of the Emperor" was a non-mystery. The Empire had an Emperor and he turned out to be (first in ESB and then RoTJ) a powerful force user. How he became Emperor? Not important to the narrative. He was Vader's master. It wasn't even entirely clear that he was the one who turned Vader or that he had been anything else other than the Emperor.

Before the Prequels, the Expanded Universe filled in some of the gaps by saying he was the"President of the Senate" who seized power after the Clone Wars. But prior the prequels, the Clone Wars were generally understood as something that happened at least 30 BBY, and the Clone Wars didn't lead directly or indirectly to the creation of the Empire. In fact, as I wrote earlier, growing up, not getting into EU stuff until way later, I always thought that the Empire had conquered the 'Old Republic" and wasn't the Republic itself. Even the fact that they're essentially the same galactic state wasn't clear to laymen until Episode II really.

And that comparison makes the Snoke hangnail all the more jarring. He was clearly set up to be another JJ Abrams mystery box. JJ not doing Episode VIII and IX (until a couple of months ago) probably means that the Snoke envisioned through TFA and the Snoke we got in TLJ are entirely different.

Snoke, I think, is so much more offensive than any other part of the sequel trilogy because even more than Rey's parantage, he's the one mystery that demands an explanation that must link the Original Trilogy to the Sequels. By that, I mean that the First Order was formed out of the Imperial Navy that fled to the Unknown Regions. They weren't force users... just military professionals. And the Force Order began and was run, principally, as very organized warlord army /raiding force that raided the New Republic. They had planets they drew Stormtroopers from, but so far as we know little to no territory of their own, a capital that is a new-generation Super Star Destroyer (the Supremacy) and a fleet that, in comparison to the fleet of the Old Republic, the Empire, or even the OT Rebel Alliance, is surprisingly small (30 Star Destroyers, 1 Super Star Destroyer, maybe about 10 million troops).

So how did this military remnant get a old Force User at the top? He presumably came way later, well after the First Order was established. Did he just stage a hostile take over?

It's pretty stupid we have this "hang nail", for someone that is a glorified Emperor riff.

I'll say it again... almost everything about TFA and TLJ could be maintained or improved if the First Order wasn't lead by this weird Supreme Commander, who demands an explanation, and rather was jointly lead by Hux and Kylo Ren. Or if there had to be "Supreme Commander", make him as far removed from Palpantine as possible. His (completely awesome) Praetorian Guards were supposed to be like Samurai. Why not have him like a Shogun?

They pretty much chose the worst option, but then again, while I loved TFA, I've never respected JJ Abrams. He doesn't have an original bone in his body.

[Armourboy]

They were still called "the resistance" and they were vastly outnumbered in every sense, which is what I would call rebels.

And that's kinda my problem; they say things in the movies that have no anchoring in the world we are shown. They speak of the republic, but it does nothing so really it doesn't exist. They speak of FO as a faction but they're pretty much unstoppable and have endless resources so in reality they are far more powerful than the Empire was ever shown to be.

I think the difference is that the Empire controlled far more territory and were spread much more thinly. Just watching the movies it feels more like the First Order are much more about fighting the resistance than they are worried about controlling territory. It felt much more thrown together and so they are still focusing resources solely on fighting the resistance. Palpatine was much more worried about the Jedi early on, the Rebellion was treated more like a gnat just flying around.

[Skroe]

1. The Last Jedi
2. Empires Strikes Back
3. A New Hope
4. Rebels (at its best)
5. Return of the Jedi
7. Rogue One
6. Clone Wars (at its best)
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Clone Wars and Rebels (at their worst)
9. The Holiday Special

20. Attack of the Clones
50. Revenge of the Sith

If you want to see the prequels done right, go watch "The Blackened Mantle"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jNz1cBr2c8

it's what the Prequel's should have been.

http://cinetropolis.net/star-wars-th...equel-re-edit/

We’re all aware of the fan edits of films out there, especially those of the Star Wars prequels. Here’s a relatively new one, entitled Star Wars: The Blackened Mantle. What’s unusual about it is the editor, Darth Lunar, has refashioned the dialogue in Japanese, with English subtitles. Somehow this, combined with the editing choices, makes the overall style more cohesive and stand-out, harkening back to one of George Lucas’ earliest ideas to have a racially diverse cast, and subtitled dialogue. From the synopsis:

“Star Wars: The Blackened Mantle” chronicles the rise of a young Jedi named Anakin Skywalker. Haunted by vivid and prophetic nightmares since he was a slave on Tatooine, Anakin is trained to find peace through the Force by his friend and mentor, Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi – until an act of brutal violence shatters Anakin’s fragile grip on his own perilous gift.

The non-linear re-edit was inspired by actor Topher Grace’s own 85 minute recut of the prequels – “the creators of this film turned away from the original English footage – and the original script – and pursued an option based on new research showing how our minds integrate written subtitles with spoken language. This was the result.”

[Skulltaker]

Well at least it was a better movie than the last one (TFA)...

I kind of like how they de-mysticised the Skywalkers. I always disliked the trope of "you were born for greatness" the series gave off.

Well... 'it's not about you, it's about the big picture' is an interesting message, but not one I'd associate with Star Wars. Star Wars was always about the heroes who braved the odds to defeat a big enemy. They always had support, but in the end, nothing in Star Wars was ever won by a 'nobody'. The 'born for greatness' thing isn't really my kind of story device either, but it is a huge part of Star Wars's identity.

[Ron Burgundy]

did anyone else feel like they were on mushrooms when the fish people caretakers showed up to repair the huts on the island? I swear I did a double take to see if I was hallucinating

[PACOX]

Well... 'it's not about you, it's about the big picture' is an interesting message, but not one I'd associate with Star Wars. Star Wars was always about the heroes who braved the odds to defeat a big enemy. They always had support, but in the end, nothing in Star Wars was ever won by a 'nobody'. The 'born for greatness' thing isn't really my kind of story device either, but it is a huge part of Star Wars's identity.

Well except for Rogue One. They were a bunch of nobodies who went on a suicide mission and everyone forgot who they were.

[Skulltaker]

Well except for Rogue One. They were a bunch of nobodies who went on a suicide mission and everyone forgot who they were.

True. I als oconsider Rouge one to be a bad Star Wars Movie, but a very good movie in itself.

[Deleted]

Movie was hot garbage. Hollywood can't produce anything worth a damn anymore. Anyone who thinks this movie is fun, enjoyable or even good is a certified retard. Even the biggest SW fanboys I know were dissapointed.

[Deleted]

Movie was hot garbage. Hollywood can't produce anything worth a damn anymore. Anyone who thinks this movie is fun, enjoyable or even good is a certified retard. Even the biggest SW fanboys I know were dissapointed.

So because ppl enjoyed a movie you did not, they are certified retarded? Gg no re.

[Macaquerie]

While it is kind of dumb we never really got much backstory on Snoke, where exactly could you go with the character that wouldn't be entirely predictable? He would most likely have just been like every other Sith Lord we've encountered in Star Wars - some ambitious dark side potentate who schemed and plotted his way to power, eventually killing his own master and cementing his position with iron-fisted rule.

One problem with the prequels is that they spent entirely too much time explaining and developing the Sith, to the point where just about everything was just part of Palpatine's grand design and the heroes were left with practically no agency. Granted, what they did with Snoke wasn't any better, but at least they recognized that he was just a plot device, an obstacle for the heroes to overcome and not a focal point in his own right.

[Allerius]

Maybe you're an idiot

for calling other people idiots.

The mind of someone who thought there was nothing wrong in this movie. Hilariously pathetic.

While it is kind of dumb we never really got much backstory on Snoke, where exactly could you go with the character that wouldn't be entirely predictable? He would most likely have just been like every other Sith Lord we've encountered in Star Wars - some ambitious dark side potentate who schemed and plotted his way to power, eventually killing his own master and cementing his position with iron-fisted rule.

One problem with the prequels is that they spent entirely too much time explaining and developing the Sith, to the point where just about everything was just part of Palpatine's grand design and the heroes were left with practically no agency. Granted, what they did with Snoke wasn't any better, but at least they recognized that he was just a plot device, an obstacle for the heroes to overcome and not a focal point in his own right.

When you have 1D characters that only exist as plot points (and his 5 minutes on the screen were unnececcesary at that) is it typically called "bad writing".

[Deleted]

RT Justice league score: 41

RT Star Wars 8 score: 93

How can you recognize a shit movie but give another shit movie an almost perfect score? There is no doubt Disney paid them off. And not just them, I'm afraid.

[Biomega]

I'm very surprised by some of the outrage here - not because I necessarily disagree with it, but because of the naivete of these people when it comes to blockbuster movies.

This is not the era of revolutionary film making. The medium has turned into mass entertainment, and as such is oriented towards the lowest common denominator - i.e. the average, naive, not particularly bright or sophisticated moviegoer who will hand over 20 bucks for 2 hours of entertainment. As zealous as SW fans are, they're not worth 2 billion dollars in movie tickets. The bulk of that comes from people who are peripherally aware of Star Wars but mainly want to see aliens and space ships blowing up.

Do not be surprised, in any way, if the plot of a movie made for such an audience remains forever shallow, generic, and trope-laden. That's what it's designed to be.

If you think there exists nobody who could have written better sequels, you're deluding yourself. They could have made complex, rich, incredibly faceted movies - which would go over the heads of the naive audience and confuse and/or bore them. That's not a SW-specific phenomenon, it's a reality of a movie that costs HUNDREDS of millions of dollars to make and is expected to rake in BILLIONS. They don't take chances. A BigMac is a BigMac, and no tinkering with the sauce.

I challenge anyone to name me the last super-blockbuster that actually had some meat on its bones rather than the pink slime meat substitute of the fast food equivalent of movie making.

[Allerius]

I'm very surprised by some of the outrage here - not because I necessarily disagree with it, but because of the naivete of these people when it comes to blockbuster movies.

This is not the era of revolutionary film making. The medium has turned into mass entertainment, and as such is oriented towards the lowest common denominator - i.e. the average, naive, not particularly bright or sophisticated moviegoer who will hand over 20 bucks for 2 hours of entertainment. As zealous as SW fans are, they're not worth 2 billion dollars in movie tickets. The bulk of that comes from people who are peripherally aware of Star Wars but mainly want to see aliens and space ships blowing up.

Do not be surprised, in any way, if the plot of a movie made for such an audience remains forever shallow, generic, and trope-laden. That's what it's designed to be.

If you think there exists nobody who could have written better sequels, you're deluding yourself. They could have made complex, rich, incredibly faceted movies - which would go over the heads of the naive audience and confuse and/or bore them. That's not a SW-specific phenomenon, it's a reality of a movie that costs HUNDREDS of millions of dollars to make and is expected to rake in BILLIONS. They don't take chances. A BigMac is a BigMac, and no tinkering with the sauce.

I challenge anyone to name me the last super-blockbuster that actually had some meat on its bones rather than the pink slime meat substitute of the fast food equivalent of movie making.

You're not wrong but I think that this is kind of what people are complaining about. I don't think that all this bad attention is going to help the franchise in the long run - TLJ already opened worse than TFA so it doesn't seem like the new style is drawing in fans. The budget was huge anyway, why do it?

[Deleted]

You're not wrong but I think that this is kind of what people are complaining about. I don't think that all this bad attention is going to help the franchise in the long run - TLJ already opened worse than TFA so it doesn't seem like the new style is drawing in fans. The budget was huge anyway, why do it?

I'm pretty sure though fans will storm to see IX, even if they didn't like what they saw before that, just because the story is coming to a conclusion. Now as for the new trilogy, ppl will give it a shot but the excitement will surely be less "omghypu".

[Biomega]

You're not wrong but I think that this is kind of what people are complaining about. I don't think that all this bad attention is going to help the franchise in the long run - TLJ already opened worse than TFA so it doesn't seem like the new style is drawing in fans. The budget was huge anyway, why do it?

I don't think any of the execs ever expected this to make more money than TFA, simply because "omg a NEW STAR WARS MOVIE AFTER OVER 10 YEARS" is a hype engine that you can't restart every 2 years (less even if you count the A Star Wars Story movies).

They're fine with just under 2 billion, too. That doesn't really change a whole lot in their considerations, because plot is not going to make the difference between 1.5 billion and 2 billion for most movies. It's hype and marketing and, to a degree, pure chance as well.

[Allerius]

I'm pretty sure though fans will storm to see IX, even if they didn't like what they saw before that, just because the story is coming to a conclusion. Now as for the new trilogy, ppl will give it a shot but the excitement will surely be less "omghypu".

I think IX will open worse than TLJ and it'll be a pretty clear trend and indicator to those that are paying attention. Rogue also wasn't bad so maybe there's hope for the next trilogy.

RT Justice league score: 41

RT Star Wars 8 score: 93

How can you recognize a shit movie but give another shit movie an almost perfect score? There is no doubt Disney paid them off. And not just them, I'm afraid.

The RT /100 score is a binary where if a critic gives a 5 or 6 or above (I forget what is it) the movie gets a "fresh". Thus two movies close in ratings /10 can get wildly different RT scores. The /10 score is much more useful.

I don't think any of the execs ever expected this to make more money than TFA, simply because "omg a NEW STAR WARS MOVIE AFTER OVER 10 YEARS" is a hype engine that you can't restart every 2 years (less even if you count the A Star Wars Story movies).

They're fine with just under 2 billion, too. That doesn't really change a whole lot in their considerations, because plot is not going to make the difference between 1.5 billion and 2 billion for most movies. It's hype and marketing and, to a degree, pure chance as well.

Maybe that's part of it, but usually when you have a good movie the audience returns for the sequal along with new fans. Empire made more than ANH so I don't think it's a given TLJ should have done worse if people were satisfied with the quality of the last 2 films.

[Leadsop]

The mind of someone who thought there was nothing wrong in this movie. Hilariously pathetic.

Who said I thought there was nothing wrong? I said I liked it. There were things I didn't like. But it is closely to possibly the best movie of the series. It's not black and white.

There's a HELL of a lot anyone could find 'wrong' with every movie in the series - from the 'best' to the 'worst,' and even that is objective.

And you quoted what I posted hilariously out of context. When I said, "Maybe you're an idiot," it was not only rhetorical, but it was under the pretense that possibly someone else out there would think that. I didn't say that, I just used that in my post to say that differences of opinions are ok and what one person likes or doesn't like doesn't make them an idiot.

Very current idealism to take something you don't like, use it as an end-of-the-world argument of how it's the worst goddamn thing you've ever seen and has ever existed on screen, accuse critics of being paid off, and call other people names. You hit all of them squarely on the head. Congratulations.