Honest question to the non americans

[pateuvasiliu]

So honest question. It seems on this board that the general consensus for people from outside of the US that the US is a terrible country. If this is what the world truly thinks of the US then why do so many people from every country feel the need to migrate here or to come here for college?

There are good and bad parts. Good doesn't erase bad and vice versa.

[Khaza-R]

im from Europe don't know any one who has or ever wants to migrate to America.

guess im not the intended target though as most migrants are Hispanic / Muslim / African and as most Africans and Muslims are going to Europe nowadays i guess its mostly a matter of accessibility rather than choice.

The vast majority of migrants to the US are from Asia (China, India, Philippines) or Latin America.

The US has never been a popular destination for Muslims or Africans

[Mihalik]

So honest question. It seems on this board that the general consensus for people from outside of the US that the US is a terrible country. If this is what the world truly thinks of the US then why do so many people from every country feel the need to migrate here or to come here for college?

I'm an American who emigrated FROM the US to Europe, specifically Spain. The US is a fucking shithole, I'm from upstate New York, Syracuse, it's a fucking shithole, and it's a lot and I mean a lot better than most of the country.

Under a superficial layer of shine and nicety there's an endless pit of crap.

Is Spain much better?

In some ways. In other areas it's just as shit or worse. The problem is most Americans define the quality of standard of living very differently than the rest of the world. Like in the square footage of your apartment and backyard. The size of your car etc. Europeans define it somewhat differently. Do those things matter? Yes, but a lot less. They place much greater value on things like, the quality of their social life, community, family life, health and well-being (by that I mean things like leisure time). It's just a different lifestyle.

But, really the only thing anyone should ever compare the US to is the rest of the developed world. And if that's how we measure success, the US is not doing very well.

Most people from the rest of western world who land in the US do so for the same reason many Americans end up abroad even if not taking into account lifestyle choices. Careers, business or education.

I started my studies in the US, finished them in the UK. Went to work for a Dutch company, eventually ending up in Spain and starting my own business. I still work too much (but then again, Spaniards especially in corporate tend to work too much), but my standard of living is head and shoulders above of that of my peers back in the US. I might live in a smaller flat in Madrid (by choice, I could always move to the suburbs, but fuck that), but I travel more, go out more, have more fun and just do more than the people back in the States who I grew up with.

[Louisa Bannon]

I will never understand the people who want universal healthcare or UBI. Fuck people who can't take care of themselves. If I did it, you can damn well do it too. If you can't, well die. It shouldn't be my problem to take care of.

You do realize that your overweening sense of self-reliance is entirely illusory, yes? I mean, you're as mad as a hatter. It's the degree of delusion that makes everyone else despair of opinions like this one.

[Cruor]

You do realize that your overweening sense of self-reliance is entirely illusory, yes? I mean, you're as mad as a hatter. It's the degree of delusion that makes everyone else despair of opinions like this one.

I depend on society functioning, meaning, I need there to be farmers growing crops and animals for food. I rely on the power plants to function and the grid to be up, the roads to work, etc. I am not some survivalist woodsman who needs nothing but my own survival abilities. That said, I am self reliant with those things, and that is the world we live in. All those things I mentioned require other people who work, not welfare bums.

I got through school, I worked, I joined the military, I made it through the training (some people who were in better shape did not have the fortitude for it) I got top secret clearance, and I got a good job out of it. I earned it. I didn't inherit daddy's business or any of that bullshit you liberals cry about.

Now, I can understand if some guy worked for Mercury cars, and because of situations beyond his control, the plant closed. I am fine with him getting LIMITED assistance (He should have been saving for just such an occasion, like I do) like new training in a similar field for a new job. However, these people on this very site who have these minor problems and believe they have the right to sit home and just play video games all day on my dollar (or EU tax payers) enrage me. What is the point of paying for them to play WoW? Why not just let them rot? Work or die.

I have lived in "assisted housing" renting the apartment from someone who had it for a while when I first got out of college in NYC, because it was cheap. Very non white area, lets say. Know what was outside? Mercedes and BMWs, and people walking around in several hundred dollar Jordan's. The same people used food stamps at the grocery store. The system is abused.

People need to learn a hard lesson. If you have a kid at 15 and your parents won't help you, then you should be screwed, die in the street. MAYBE idiots will stop being idiots if there is no safety net to catch them. I HATE that my money is taken to pay for it. Maybe people will start being productive if they aren't just getting paid to breath, ever think of that? If you want welfare so badly, we should adopt a new system, charity welfare. People like you donate their money, and I keep mine.

You are a typical liberal. You state you have a good life with money, cars, etc. You believe yourself to be smarter than others, yet you hate on America. I'm not rich, but I have a good life. I can afford what I want minus super cars. You state you have the same.... so how exactly did we "benefit ourselves and the expense of the masses" or however you put it?

So I will admit today is a slow day at work.... I read some of your post history, you are actually crazy... like strait up have something wrong with you. I'm not even saying that because you are a liberal, you just copy and paste the same comment into multiple threads. "Dont any of you watch Archer? Classic Misdirection" and "why weren't rich people punished for 2008?" "I hate the 1%" over and over.... I post I hate welfare multiple times but at least I change the wording around and write a new piece each time... you just keep saying the exact same thing over and over in your posts.... not pointing to a high intelligence.

[Spaze]

I don't think the US is a terrible a country there are much things i like about it from hearing.

I am planning to move to the US to work there in a filmstudios there arent many in the EU that are working on projects im interested in

[Nerovar]

Can you really say anything bad about our conuntry? Considering you know what happened recently with yours? Not bashing. Would love to visit Germany. Seems great today.

What exactly do you think happened to our country? Don't get me wrong. Germany isn't a perfect place either and I have no love for our government or the political parties that dominate the public dialogue but this thread is about 'murrica, isn't it?

[Deleted]

I don't live in America, but generally Americans I met irl and online are the most deluded people in the world. They are quite nice though, but by far the stupidest people in the 1st world. Actually, America is probably a 3rd world country by now. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...monitor-report

[Deleted]

https://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/DE/US

no thanks

[Louisa Bannon]

So I will admit today is a slow day at work.... I read some of your post history, you are actually crazy... like strait up have something wrong with you. I'm not even saying that because you are a liberal, you just copy and paste the same comment into multiple threads. "Dont any of you watch Archer? Classic Misdirection" and "why weren't rich people punished for 2008?" "I hate the 1%" over and over.... I post I hate welfare multiple times but at least I change the wording around and write a new piece each time... you just keep saying the exact same thing over and over in your posts.... not pointing to a high intelligence.

You're entirely blinkered by the rich industrialist, military machine. You think they are on your side because in effect you worked for them. But war is a racket.

And your assertion that my comments are copy-paste is ridiculous, although I won't deny that I am probably expressing the same ideas now as I have before. But wow, you looked up my past comments? Something really seems to motivate you. By contrast I don't usually spend extra time trying to figure out some pathetic right-wing fool, I just know what it is when I see it. I think I recall you proudly claiming to have voted for Trump, and that tells everyone else a lot already. Long story short, to most people that means you're an idiot. In fact, you are so myopic in your world view that you don't even think you're an idiot and conversely think you are of perhaps normal or even higher than average intelligence instead. Sadly, no...

That tax cut they just passed bends a guy like you over with no reach around. You want more of the same. You are worried about some welfare mom or some guy being paid to play video games all day because "they shouldn't get something for nothing." But you ignore the much vaster money that is larded on the 1% through protectionist legislation, bank and finance laws, etc. Welfare money spent on that mom, that video game guy doesn't even begin to touch the stupid amounts of money simply laid at the feet of the oligarchy. Have you even considered what it meant to conclude some financial entities were "too big to fail" and that the taxpayer had to be placed on the hook for the money? Uh dude, that's you and I. But you stand with them, apparently.

I can assure you that approx 50% of the electorate sees the problem, but the other half is like you. Tunnel visioned and blind as bats. What's more, even if people voted thinking it was for change, both parties are utterly whored out to the same money men, so it really makes no difference.

There's some thought that the main difference between someone like yourself and someone like me is that you are directed by the back brain fear centers whereas I have no such fears and primarily think with my forebrain. Fight or flight and probably some pointless and irrational belief in a deity that never existed is what drives you. The politics you defend will throw you under the bus the first chance they get as you have already served your purpose as temporary cannon fodder.

What you don't see is a long history of people fighting for ideas, economic advantages, simple human decency that you now take entirely for granted. You talk about roads and other infrastructure shit like that's the whole story of what you owe to society when there is so much more that goes missing in your thinking. You probably hate unions, when unions are responsible for some of what I am talking about. Instead of being grateful or even aware of it, your ignorance is openly displayed.

[BuckSparkles]

From what I see most people don't hate America (yet), they hate Americans.

As much as this pisses me off and is unfair it is hard to blame them. The mainstream media under corporate control has turned on the people and has become weaponized.
They show the worst of this country on a regular basis and make us all look like fools while they press their agenda. The country is divided like never before due to the impressive brainwashing campaign they have carried out on the younger generation.

Ultimately the media is not holding a mirror to our country but a microscope to problems that are small and amplifying them.

I can agree with this. All the media is doing is sowing discontent.

[woodnf]

Replying as an American. The US is a country made up of people with very varied religious beliefs and poltical views. Please don't generalize us as Trump supporting, anti-environment people. The actual majority of voters did not vote for Trump. Many of us can't stand him and cringe at anything he says or does. If you actually look at the raw numbers, there were many more people that voted for the other candidates than Trump. Our voting system is outdated and flawed. It is so unfortunate that news and general media cast us in such a bad light. You don't get to see the everyday average person. I've been around the world and see good and bad in each country.

[Deleted]

The US is a third world nation disguised as a first world nation basically.

[Lodreh]

...Your politicians and media are corrupt to the bone, and it baffles people how americans are just 'okay' with all that blatant lying and corruption...

As an American I can only say that we have no real means to change it. If a candidate... no matter how qualified or well liked... isn't part of one of two parties then they have no real shot at winning. To win a party's nomination they almost always "owe" something to the party that is extremely polarizing and keeps the country divided. The cycle continues to repeat indefinitely. As Americans we see this. Again with the systems in place we are powerless to stop it.

Alternatively, we could take up arms and cast off our oppressors... but the quality of life hasn't fallen that far yet. But that day may arrive which is why we will not relinquish our guns. By and large we can still do and say whatever we want without repercussions from our government. We can work... pay for basic healthcare and other standard living expenses. The media makes mountains out of mole hills and the everyday person becomes indifferent to the news.

[smokii]

i dont think the USA is a terrible country, it's an incredibly diverse country

unfortunately, diversity also includes some of the most batshit crazy people on the planet, the KKK, the NRA and trump supporters to name but a few.

you also have an international reputation as a nation of idiots (which trump is heavily re-enforcing atm), not all of you of course, there's plenty of well educated americans, but then there's the redneck homeschoolers, the Ken Ham creationist religious zealots and an overabundance of ignorance on key international issues, until they affect you personally.

also, the kardashians. wtf.

[Louisa Bannon]

...Please don't generalize us as Trump supporting, anti-environment people. The actual majority of voters did not vote for Trump. Many of us can't stand him and cringe at anything he says or does. If you actually look at the raw numbers, there were many more people that voted for the other candidates than Trump. Our voting system is outdated and flawed....

So yeah, flawed voting system. I guess the fact that the voting machines themselves are owned by right-wing interests and operate on propriety software is just some accident. Let's not start on gerrymandering.

What about campaign finance reform? Or how about the lie that is corporate personhood? Or how about what is spent on elections? Eyeball time on TV buys elections so Murdoch and Koch Bros are gods.

How about the fact that both sides take money from the same sources? Dems and Rethugs both owe to Wall St.

Every other western nation has already figured out that there is more value for the money without insurance companies as middlemen in the healthcare scheme. Yes that fact continues to elude us.

We now and again have asset forfeiture the likes of which we haven't seen since the era of merry olde England. How did this happen in a land of supposed property rights?

An education is not only not free, they've made damn sure that if you bother yourself to get one you will probably be in debt the rest of your natural life. Buy a house, a new car every few years? The generation coming up, YOU NOT ME, will live shorter lives in worse economic conditions than my generation. My nephew has a masters and can't buy a home at any time in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we are leaving the decision making on future education to the charter school pushers (aka the Walton family of Arkansas).

I could go on...but the fact of it is that many of you bought the lies one at a time and now there's so much to unpack and reform that we shall never accomplish it with the glacial pace of change in the U.S. and basically we all know it. To say nothing of the fact that most people don't even realize most of this stuff - something around 50% anyway.

[Deleted]

Seems like a great country to live in if you're white, if you're not white it seems to be pretty bad compared to other western countries like Sweden, Norway or Denmark.

[Dalheim]

I make fun of alot of stuff about the US, but I dont hate the US or anything.

[smokii]

You're entirely blinkered by the rich industrialist, military machine. You think they are on your side because in effect you worked for them. But war is a racket.

And your assertion that my comments are copy-paste is ridiculous, although I won't deny that I am probably expressing the same ideas now as I have before. But wow, you looked up my past comments? Something really seems to motivate you. By contrast I don't usually spend extra time trying to figure out some pathetic right-wing fool, I just know what it is when I see it. I think I recall you proudly claiming to have voted for Trump, and that tells everyone else a lot already. Long story short, to most people that means you're an idiot. In fact, you are so myopic in your world view that you don't even think you're an idiot and conversely think you are of perhaps normal or even higher than average intelligence instead. Sadly, no...

That tax cut they just passed bends a guy like you over with no reach around. You want more of the same. You are worried about some welfare mom or some guy being paid to play video games all day because "they shouldn't get something for nothing." But you ignore the much vaster money that is larded on the 1% through protectionist legislation, bank and finance laws, etc. Welfare money spent on that mom, that video game guy doesn't even begin to touch the stupid amounts of money simply laid at the feet of the oligarchy. Have you even considered what it meant to conclude some financial entities were "too big to fail" and that the taxpayer had to be placed on the hook for the money? Uh dude, that's you and I. But you stand with them, apparently.

I can assure you that approx 50% of the electorate sees the problem, but the other half is like you. Tunnel visioned and blind as bats. What's more, even if people voted thinking it was for change, both parties are utterly whored out to the same money men, so it really makes no difference.

There's some thought that the main difference between someone like yourself and someone like me is that you are directed by the back brain fear centers whereas I have no such fears and primarily think with my forebrain. Fight or flight and probably some pointless and irrational belief in a deity that never existed is what drives you. The politics you defend will throw you under the bus the first chance they get as you have already served your purpose as temporary cannon fodder.

What you don't see is a long history of people fighting for ideas, economic advantages, simple human decency that you now take entirely for granted. You talk about roads and other infrastructure shit like that's the whole story of what you owe to society when there is so much more that goes missing in your thinking. You probably hate unions, when unions are responsible for some of what I am talking about. Instead of being grateful or even aware of it, your ignorance is openly displayed.

bravo sir, that was brutal, but 100% on the mark

edit: i'm also kinda waiting for civil war part 2. seems like it's on the cards in the states

[Independent voter]

The US is a third world nation disguised as a first world nation basically.

I've seen this posted a lot in this thread. Here is a list of what poor people in the US have:



Material things are very cheap in the US, education is too if you go the community college route.

Compare that list to this one of all US households even the rich:



The two charts are very similar. Sure the rich have a higher quality and newer everything but it's not like the poor go without.

The poor also get free health insurance in the US, Medicaid insures 75 million people, twice the population of Canada.