Antorus & Arcane spec

[Deleted]

Arcane mage need a buff..

[Nitros14]

Hey we're good at three AoE fights and Imonar.

The other seven are pretty dire, yeah.

[Sylvaeres]

Hey we're good at three AoE fights and Imonar.

The other seven are pretty dire, yeah.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17/

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17/#boss=2069


Sure, if by "Dire" you mean middle of the pack and in some cases upper middle. Yes, Arcane has a few bad fights. But let's not exaggerate where the spec is

[Deleted]

But let's not exaggerate where the spec is

Well, where the spec actually is? Less than 10% of mages are raiding with Arcane spec. Your link shows:

Frost ... 50.3 %
Fire .... 42.9 %
Arcane ... 6.8 %

What makes a bad situation "dire" is the fact that the numbers have been the same during the whole expansion.

[Nitros14]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17/

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17/#boss=2069


Sure, if by "Dire" you mean middle of the pack and in some cases upper middle. Yes, Arcane has a few bad fights. But let's not exaggerate where the spec is

There's only 5 parses on Varimathras, that's statistically insignificant. And at 90th percentile on those 5 parses arcane is still awful, worst in the game at 99th percentile.

No arcane mage has killed mythic Aggramar or Argus, and there's only three Coven kills and eighteen Kin'garoth kills. The aoe fights and Imonar are skewing it wildly out of proportion for the overall logs right now.

Give it a few months for a decent number of arcane mages to kill those fights and you'll see arcane slide to the bottom, where it is currently on heroic (where it should be better since it's a turret spec whose numbers are killed by movement.)

[Deleted]

The only thing you guys have to understand is that arcane mage needs a buff. Bcause it suck on 2 targets, it suck on ST (no matter what you can say). Im playing double ring and everyone can say that arcane have a good priority target in a short parse until the time comes to fucking evocate like on coven once adds are coming "like the healing adds" every two pulls i have to evo at this right fucking moment. The spec in so much situation fucking suck.

[osmo]

The only thing you guys have to understand is that arcane mage needs a buff. Bcause it suck on 2 targets, it suck on ST (no matter what you can say). Im playing double ring and everyone can say that arcane have a good priority target in a short parse until the time comes to fucking evocate like on coven once adds are coming "like the healing adds" every two pulls i have to evo at this right fucking moment. The spec in so much situation fucking suck.

how do you define suck?

is suck when your little window doesnt say you are one of the top dps?
is suck when your rotation isnt fun?
is suck when you dont have meaningfull cooldowns?
is suck when your a gnome and jumping + arcane explosion doesnt enlarge the radius anymore (sorry sad throwback)

i 99% think you mean the 1st

but top dps means shit... this is a MMO, defeating a boss is a group effort
for example our self proclaimed no1 mage does indeed do a bit more dmg then me on most fights (read fights with alot of (soak)mechanics) but on almost stationary fights (varimathras for example ) i blow him out of the water by a large margin. this is due to the fact that he ignores mechanics with an entitelist feeling that healers should compensate and others can do the mechanics, and i dont. this also shows in the healing taken

so by your standard... he is the beter player because logs, yet he throws f-ing fits when he gets benched on progress fights due to the fact he just sucks at mechanics and rl doesnt trust him because well he just isnt that well practiced in them.

if its the later points, go play a specc/class you enjoy if you arnt in a top 10guild that 5% dps loss hardly is going to make a difference

[D3athsting]

Arcane is mechanically broken, slipstrem is just too important to not have because if you lose evocation to mechanics you can just die and alt-tab because your dps is fucked, you need to be in melee for aoe, double ring +2t20 and 4t21 is the best setup but not using kilt and having super high haste granted by ring and t21 4pc bonus causes the rotation to be very hard and unforgiving, one more AB4 that shouldn't be casted and your rotation and dps are fucked, pair that with the fact that even on st dummy arcane can't compete with frost or other casters/melees and you can come to the conclusion that playing arcane is like playing tennis with a baseball bat, a lot of effort for little results...oh and do not forget that nightmare called rop that is tormenting mages since mop (iirc), yet blizz thinks this shitty spell is good and won't remove once and for all

[Sylvaeres]

Well, where the spec actually is? Less than 10% of mages are raiding with Arcane spec. Your link shows:

Frost ... 50.3 %
Fire .... 42.9 %
Arcane ... 6.8 %

What makes a bad situation "dire" is the fact that the numbers have been the same during the whole expansion.

Lack of people playing the spec at high level doesn't mean the spec is bad. People are just more invested into the other 2 specs

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There's only 5 parses on Varimathras, that's statistically insignificant. And at 90th percentile on those 5 parses arcane is still awful, worst in the game at 99th percentile.

No arcane mage has killed mythic Aggramar or Argus, and there's only three Coven kills and eighteen Kin'garoth kills. The aoe fights and Imonar are skewing it wildly out of proportion for the overall logs right now.

Give it a few months for a decent number of arcane mages to kill those fights and you'll see arcane slide to the bottom, where it is currently on heroic (where it should be better since it's a turret spec whose numbers are killed by movement.)

See above. People are invested into frost because it's been our top spec since ToV, and it has a decent toolkit along with high damage. It doesn't mean Arcane sucks

[dwarfeckiy]

People don't play Arcane Mage because it requires you to pay attention to something other than flashy shit in the middle of the screen.
I swear, people who mainly play Fire/Frost try arcane, get carried away and go oom in seconds. It's a little harder to play arcane than it seems.

I'm a fire player myself with years of exp. I tried arcane on Varimathras and it wasn't bad actually, except i had to stare at my damn weakauras whole fight so i don't run out of mana by mistake. Other than that - arcane is decent atm.

[Deiae]

See above. People are invested into frost because it's been our top spec since ToV, and it has a decent toolkit along with high damage. It doesn't mean Arcane sucks

Most serious people will have enough AP for all specs and all legendaries. If arcane was fine enough to be considered it would be played but as you conceded the "toolkit" of the sister specs is better. So in other words arcane is worse. And no one except a select few will play it for serious progression - a few weeks later.
It has nothing to do with being invested. Arcane has not enough going for it to be played in raiding seriously or for someone to feel inclined to learn to play it. The logs are propped up by padding on easy bosses.
It has been in the shadow of the other specs all expansion. That shouldn't be the case tier after tier after tier.
And tbh they wouldn't even need to change anything right now just buff it so it would be the to go spec on certain bosses that don't fall over anyway because it would actually be better for something important.

[Drutt]

I'm not sure where the "frost has a better toolkit" argument is coming from. The utility aspects of Arcane and Frost aren't very different. Frost gets double block, but Arcane gets Greater Invis. Frost's snare is rarely relevant at raid level (M+ can be a different story) so there's very little difference between the two specs from a utility standpoint.

[mcbubble]

Hey we're good at three AoE fights and Imonar.

The other seven are pretty dire, yeah.

Why is arcane good on Imonar?
I would have thought Frost would have been better since it's a long single target fight...

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I'm not sure where the "frost has a better toolkit" argument is coming from. The utility aspects of Arcane and Frost aren't very different. Frost gets double block, but Arcane gets Greater Invis. Frost's snare is rarely relevant at raid level (M+ can be a different story) so there's very little difference between the two specs from a utility standpoint.

I think the majority of people just HATE rune of power...

[Garybear]

Well, where the spec actually is? Less than 10% of mages are raiding with Arcane spec. Your link shows:

Frost ... 50.3 %
Fire .... 42.9 %
Arcane ... 6.8 %

What makes a bad situation "dire" is the fact that the numbers have been the same during the whole expansion.

I never played arcane because it was so complicated, I loved arcane back in bc/wrath/cata and now I don't and I'm sure other people agree after looking at the data you provided. Its the same reason people hardly play feral, its not garbage, its just unnecessarily complicated.

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Why is arcane good on Imonar?
I would have thought Frost would have been better since it's a long single target fight...

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I think the majority of people just HATE rune of power...

I personally love rune of power but hate the gameplay of arcane.

[Nitros14]

Why is arcane good on Imonar?
I would have thought Frost would have been better since it's a long single target fight...

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I think the majority of people just HATE rune of power...

Arcane has the strongest burst. Imonar has tons of downtime so you burst a higher percent of your time dpsing. Fire can't benefit from kindling while doing bridges on Imonar. Frost can't reduce icy veins' cooldown with frostbolt crits if there's nothing to hit.

[Deleted]

Lack of people playing the spec at high level doesn't mean the spec is bad. People are just more invested into the other 2 specs

Lack of people playing a class at high level doesn't mean the class is bad. People are just more invested into the other classes.

Is this also true?

[Nitros14]

Lack of people playing the spec at high level doesn't mean the spec is bad. People are just more invested into the other 2 specs

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See above. People are invested into frost because it's been our top spec since ToV, and it has a decent toolkit along with high damage. It doesn't mean Arcane sucks

If you don't want to see the evidence in front of your eyes that arcane is non-competitive on the majority of the fights, including all of the really important ones, that's your business I guess.

[Deleted]

how do you define suck?

is suck when your little window doesnt say you are one of the top dps?
is suck when your rotation isnt fun?
is suck when you dont have meaningfull cooldowns?
is suck when your a gnome and jumping + arcane explosion doesnt enlarge the radius anymore (sorry sad throwback)

i 99% think you mean the 1st

but top dps means shit... this is a MMO, defeating a boss is a group effort
for example our self proclaimed no1 mage does indeed do a bit more dmg then me on most fights (read fights with alot of (soak)mechanics) but on almost stationary fights (varimathras for example ) i blow him out of the water by a large margin. this is due to the fact that he ignores mechanics with an entitelist feeling that healers should compensate and others can do the mechanics, and i dont. this also shows in the healing taken

so by your standard... he is the beter player because logs, yet he throws f-ing fits when he gets benched on progress fights due to the fact he just sucks at mechanics and rl doesnt trust him because well he just isnt that well practiced in them.

if its the later points, go play a specc/class you enjoy if you arnt in a top 10guild that 5% dps loss hardly is going to make a difference

How can a normal person stay calm when you see posts like this. Well first of all im not a newbie, i played arcane the whole expension and the spec have a bunch of desadvantage on each raid only because of mechanics. The spec required too much effort for almost 0 results, any arcane players that try hard the spec can have the same observation: If you can't AE you can't literally f*** yourself on progress, if you don't have a huge amount of optimisation and stuff thats the same. Actually arcane mage looks like nothing, you are doing a huge amount of damage input in a 10sec window and then you start a new fight with yourself and the retarded mana management, a simple BL on fight can absolutly ruin your dps, the overcaping haste makes the mana negativ mechanics someting impossible to manage. The thing is at some point you can't "DELAY" the fact that you are burning mana, so you have to use evocation but if you are near 2-3% mana and the boss is going to bump you etc etc etc etc... The only way that blizzard gaves to us is.... ? AFKing until the boss mechanics let you do the "SPELL" that give you right or not to play the game.

Peoples are checking logs/parses etc.. and I feel like they judge something they don't care and know about, its a huge RNG spec with too much disadvantage and 0 Results.

To conclude: Arcane needs a ST and 2 target buff.

[Sageless]

I think the reason arcane is not played is because to "comfortably" play it you need the talent Slipstream and the Legendary Kilt.
However the optimal build is with neither of these as you want 2+4 set and the utility of Shimmer.

This immediately leads to a choice that sucks.

[Deleted]

it just need more overall dmg and nether tempest have to be sometimes usefull our template didn't change till the start..