[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[draykorinee]

Palpatine was the head of the Empire which was the dominant political faction in the foundational start to the star wars universe. He didn't need any sort of back story at the time. Snoke existing during the rise and fall of the Empire flies in the face of the already established story. Palpatine would not let someone like Snoke live because it is a challenge to his rule. Luke wouldn't let Smoke live because he is a threat to the galaxy and the Jedi Order he is trying to build. His existence requires an explanation to make the events that are unfolding see plausible and not forced. He 100% could have just not existed and the story would make more sense.

Thats fine, but he's still describing Palpatine, he still never had a motive in the OT, hes just the bad guy who stomps his foot. He still manipulated two people in to a situation that led to his own demise. He's still a bit part player in the story and not the focus. I have said before, I agree Snoke needed a backstory, but you can't rate TLJ 0/10 and your main complaint being they made a character with the exact same lack of motivation as Palpatine and then complain that Snoke lacked motivation.

[gilfanon]

My biggest problems with the movie is that there are no limitations and no consequences.
Destroy the new death star? FO will build a million new ships.
Kill all rebels except 10? They'll come back and win next movie.
Have Finn and Asian girl surrounded by 1000 enemies? They'll all disappear when the ship gets attacked.
Need to break into the FO flag ship? Easy as wiping your ass.
Need to find a person who can be anywhere in the galaxy? He'll be just around the corner.

Destroy the Death Star? The emperor was building another one all along.
Need to escape Tatooine? The best pilot and fastest ship in the galaxy happen to be in the local bar.
Running from a fleet of star destroyers? There happens to be an asteroid field nearby.
Need to destroy a Death Star? There happens to be an exhaust port that allows you to blow the thing up with one torpedo. (granted that convenient plot device had a reason retconned for it)
Trying to escape from the detention block? There happens to be an access point to the trash compactors with a drop that isn't deep enough to kill you.
Outnumbered and outgunned on an alien world? The local population happens to revere one of your party as a god and have a wide array of anti-imperial devices nearby rigged to destroy AT-STs etc.
etc etc.

It's not like convenient and easy plot devices are a new thing in the Star Wars universe...

[draykorinee]

My biggest problems with the movie is that there are no limitations and no consequences.
Destroy the new death star? FO will build a million new ships.
Kill all rebels except 10? They'll come back and win next movie.
Have Finn and Asian girl surrounded by 1000 enemies? They'll all disappear when the ship gets attacked.
Need to break into the FO flag ship? Easy as wiping your ass.
Need to find a person who can be anywhere in the galaxy? He'll be just around the corner.

Everything is so convenient and easy whenever the plot needs it to be.

My other big complain is how the universe just doesn't progress logically. There is no arguments to be made that the resulting chain of events after destroying the Sith empire is the completely and utterly unhindered rise of a new Sith empire with limitless resources. I hate movies that don't allow the universe to live its own life. Everything is just another plot device, there is absolutely no immersion for me when every character can be anywhere they need to be at the exact right moment or behaves exactly like the plot needs them to - I stop thinking "this is a real person" and start thinking "this is an actor".

If you think Endor saw the destruction of the Empire or that the rise of the FO was unhindered then...you haven't been keeping up.

[Fayolynn]

Thats fine, but he's still describing Palpatine, he still never had a motive in the OT, hes just the bad guy who stomps his foot. He still manipulated two people in to a situation that led to his own demise. He's still a bit part player in the story and not the focus. I have said before, I agree Snoke needed a backstory, but you can't rate TLJ 0/10 and your main complaint being they made a character with the exact same lack of motivation as Palpatine and then complain that Snoke lacked motivation.

Well I think you can't rate any more a 0/10 in the first place. I disagree though that you can't rate TLJ due to Snoke. He played a larger role then the Emperor, by his shear existence created a mystery that demanded answers and ultimately there is no pay off. Lack of information about Snoke has an impact on the quality of the TLJ, Palpatines didn't have the same impact.

[draykorinee]

Destroy the Death Star? The emperor was building another one all along.
Need to escape Tatooine? The best pilot and fastest ship in the galaxy happen to be in the local bar.
Running from a fleet of star destroyers? There happens to be an asteroid field nearby.
Need to destroy a Death Star? There happens to be an exhaust port that allows you to blow the thing up with one torpedo. (granted that convenient plot device had a reason retconned for it)
Trying to escape from the detention block? There happens to be an access point to the trash compactors with a drop that isn't deep enough to kill you.
Outnumbered and outgunned on an alien world? The local population happens to revere one of your party as a god and have a wide array of anti-imperial devices nearby rigged to destroy AT-STs etc.
etc etc.

It's not like convenient and easy plot devices are a new thing in the Star Wars universe...

Droids land on a planet the size of earth but land exactly the right spot to be captured and taken to the exact person who is the great hope for the galaxy.

[Jotaux]

+1

A lot of people makes this comparison between Snoke and Palpatine, like the last one is the epitome of huge backstory. But, guess what, in the original trilogy Palpatine was just a hologram till the last movie.

The difference is Snoke just appears 7 movies in as an established head of the first order whereas with palpatine a star wars continuity was not built up beforehand. Given his perceived age and force abilities he would have been around for the original trilogy if not the prequels so where did he come from?

It's like when you are born, your mother, father and older siblings are all established. Then you wake one day at 16 and find some random person at the breakfast table. Everyone in your family treats it as if hes always been there.

[Elim Garak]

Droids land on a planet the size of earth but land exactly the right spot to be captured and taken to the exact person who is the great hope for the galaxy.

It's like.. it's like... it's.... a movie or something.

[Deleted]

This whataboutism is a failure. Other movies having easy plot devices don't make the ones in this one any better.

[Elim Garak]

This whataboutism is a failure. Other movies having easy plot devices don't make the ones in this one any better.

There can be no good movie without easy plot devices.

There cannot be a good Star Wars movie in which droids land on the other side of the planet and die of sand in bearings.

[gilfanon]

This whataboutism is a failure. Other movies having easy plot devices don't make the ones in this one any better.

The point is you can't say "I loved the original trilogy and it was much better than TLJ, and the reason I hated TLJ was because it had easy plot devices." Why are easy plot devices ok for Episode 4-6, but the worst thing ever for Episode 7-8?

[Deleted]

The difference is Snoke just appears 7 movies in as an established head of the first order whereas with palpatine a star wars continuity was not built up beforehand. Given his perceived age and force abilities he would have been around for the original trilogy if not the prequels so where did he come from?

It's like when you are born, your mother, father and older siblings are all established. Then you wake one day at 16 and find some random person at the breakfast table. Everyone in your family treats it as if hes always been there.

Well the galaxy is... a galaxy XD Probably there are a lot of force user in the remote corner of SW planet we can't even imagine. But sure, it wuold be nice to know more about Snoke past, that's sure.

A question now, do you think or know if the next movie of the trilogy will be split in 2 different ones?

[Katchii]

Of the things Disney now considers canon it is only the movies, Rebels tv series, The Clone Wars tv series, and future books. So unless you have a specific reference from one of those where Luke and/or Biggs specifically mention the imperial academy and defecting from the empire to join the rebellion I'm not going to be convinced. It isn't my fan fic any more than it is Disney's fan fic as they are the ones that dictate what is and isn't canon. I can't help it that they put things on starwars.com that don't align with what they say is canon which is why I don't give a crap about the website.

That website is the official Star Wars website owned and operated by Disney, who owns the franchise as you well know. Pretty sure that whatever it says on there should be taken as canon or official.

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Unless we watched different deleted scenes he still says academy not imperial academy. Luke seemed more excited than surprised Biggs was joining up with the alliance, and Biggs right after that says that this is what they(Luke and him) had always planned. Both he and Luke mention wanting to avoid getting drafted by the empire, and Biggs talks about fighting for the side he believes in. Why care about getting drafted if you are just going to join up anyway and leave? There is a reason these scenes are all deleted.

Not sure if it's on purpose or if you're really this obtuse. Throughout the series, but especially in Clone Wars and Rebels, the Imperial Academy is routinely simply called the academy because that's the only fucking academy around. The universe is practically owned by the Empire, what other academy would there be? There is no other academy ever referenced aside from possibly the Jedi Academy which doesn't exist anymore.

[Deleted]

Are you describing Palpatine?

No at least Palpatine went out with a bang rather than a really laughable close shave like Snoke.

[Leadsop]

This pretty much covers everything to be said about your posts.

Because you disagree? The movie is great.

Or are you just one of the people who goes on the internet and insults everyone who disagrees with your opinion with no logical, not to mention factual basis other than butthurt emo fanboying?

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Well if that was bugging you, try this one: Why to the laser blasts the Supremacy is firing at the Resistance fleet travel in an arc?

I thought this too, but then again, the next time ANY Sci-Fi movie follows the laws of physics you can let me know.

[Elim Garak]

No at least Palpatine went out with a bang rather than a really laughable close shave like Snoke.

Snoke was inferior to Palpatine. He had a fitting end.

[Deleted]

Destroy the Death Star? The emperor was building another one all along.
Need to escape Tatooine? The best pilot and fastest ship in the galaxy happen to be in the local bar.
Running from a fleet of star destroyers? There happens to be an asteroid field nearby.
Need to destroy a Death Star? There happens to be an exhaust port that allows you to blow the thing up with one torpedo. (granted that convenient plot device had a reason retconned for it)
Trying to escape from the detention block? There happens to be an access point to the trash compactors with a drop that isn't deep enough to kill you.
Outnumbered and outgunned on an alien world? The local population happens to revere one of your party as a god and have a wide array of anti-imperial devices nearby rigged to destroy AT-STs etc.
etc etc.

It's not like convenient and easy plot devices are a new thing in the Star Wars universe...

This is not 1979, we should be allowed to expect more.

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If you think Endor saw the destruction of the Empire or that the rise of the FO was unhindered then...you haven't been keeping up.

If you mean I have to read comics or books to keep up, you can stop right there. I am judging this movie based on it's own merits, not explainations given outside of it cause those do not count. The world we are presented in TFA and TLJ is a world were the emprie was defeated and the FO arose completely unhindered by an impotent republic that does nothing, has no resources and has no power while the FO has more resources at their disposal than the empire ever had at its peak.

[Deleted]

Snoke was inferior to Palpatine. He had a fitting end.

Then Snoke wasn't really a bad guy since he wasn't bad enough. He was just a bad guy because the director said so.

[draykorinee]

This is not 1979, we should be allowed to expect more.

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If you mean I have to read comics or books to keep up, you can stop right there. I am judging this movie based on it's own merits, not explainations given outside of it cause those do not count. The world we are presented in TFA and TLJ is a world were the emprie was defeated and the FO arose completely unhindered by an impotent republic that does nothing, has no resources and has no power while the FO has more resources at their disposal than the empire ever had at its peak.

The film showed you multiple destroyed star destroyers on Jakku. They also told you that the first order rose in secret.

[Elim Garak]

Then Snoke wasn't really a bad guy since he wasn't bad enough. He was just a bad guy because the director said so.

He destroyed more planets than Palpatine.

[Deleted]

He destroyed more planets than Palpatine.

We have no idea how many planets Palpatine actually destroyed so I am must express a doubt and still think Snoke was simply convenient a foil for the movie viewers.