The USA Will be Taking Names! Warning Before UN General Assembly Vote

[Crispin]

The issue is that Trump's experience, is trying to run a business, which often ended in a complete failure, but it's obvious to everyone, that you can't run a country like it's your company, political diplomacy is a complete different animal than selling books and opening a terrible "university". A powerful company can easily "threaten" smaller partners into submission, with the lame tricks that Trump is trying to use in his presidency.

If anything, the world will hopefully learn that businessmen arent fit to run a country, anymore than politicians are fit to run a company, or a baseball player will be a successful racedriver.

[Skroe]

Fair enough really.
Why let other, weaker nations impose their non-compatible views on you when you are the biggest, most powerful player in the game?

After 8 years of sitting idle, it's about time a strong Western country like the US imposes some clear rules on the world stage.

Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital right now, was stupid from every angle.

Jerusalem's final status is one of the core political and religious issues of the entire Israeli / Palestinian conflict, for really good historical reasons.

The United States, in this conflict, occupied a bizarre role. On the one hand, we took it upon ourselves as "the biggest, most powerful player in the game" to do what no other country or assortment of countries could do, which is mediate a permanent and enduring resolution to the conflict. Mediate means neutrality. And over the past 35 years, the US repeatedly worked, largely in good faith, torwards an equitable outcome. When it was the Israel and Palestine, Israel and Egypt, or Israel and Jordan, the US worked as a mediator, and through that advanced its own interests.

-> Negotiation of an Israeli/Egyptian peace pulled Egypt out of the Soviet sphere and into the US one. The Camp David Accords.
-> Negotiation of Israeli and Jordanian peace in 1994 stabilized the reason and opened the route to an Israeli/Palestinian peace. The US also gained access.
-> Repeated attempts at Israeli / Palestinian peace advanced US interests with both, in the region, and kept Iranian and Russian influence at bay.

By being a mediator, ostensibly neutral, the US enabled a regional crisis to become a vehicle to advance its own regional interests.

But here's the thing, the US was never neutral, and everybody knew it. That this was the case was something of a wink and a nod, given that the US has been Israel's closest ally for decade. But the countries that Israeli negotiated against allowed the US to assume the mediator mantle because they believed the US was acting in good faith and could restrain Israeli behavior, and get them to offer concessions another process would not get them to.

In other words, the convenient fiction advanced everybody's interests.
-> The US advanced its regional agenda
-> Israel believed the US had it's back ultimately
-> Jordan, Palestine, Egypt and others believed they could get better agreements with US help.

And now Donald Trump has recklessly and stupidly thrown that useful tool... this convenient fiction... away. And for what? How does the US tangibly gain?

Here's the truth. The US was ALWAYS going to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. It was ALWAYS going to happen. But it was going to do it, in coordination with the UN and and leading most of the other 193 countries in the world on that day, the day that the Israelis and Palestinians arrived at a final peace that saw Jerusalem as the capital of both countries. On that day, the US, joined by the entire world, would be recognizing a negotiated outcome.

And between where we are, and that day the US would be able to wield that promise of recognition as a hammer, to coerce both the Israelis and Palestinians, to produce a more equitable deal. Considering that US recognition is a powerful and useful thing for them, and we could deny it if we chose, it has and would continue to have, been useful leverage.

And here we have Donald Trump, the great negotiator, giving up leverage, for what exactly?

So now the US stands alone, having done something pointless and gained nothing for it. And torched useful leverage.

So what happens now? Is Israel and Palestine closer to peace? Does the US advance its interests in the region with this? Does the US gain leverage from this? Hell no on all accounts.

This is juvenile diplomacy because it's about feels, and not about outcomes. The US will, because of this, NEVER get back it's role as a mediator for the conflict, a role that has been enormously useful to us in the region. The final peace will now likely be a multiparty negotiated settlement, probably similar to the Iran deal. The US will be Israel's lawyer, not a mediator, and Russia, China and the EU will all get substantial says, not to mention Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt. This all means probably a worse outcome for Israel in the end, and deeply unresolved issues for the Palestinians, who will not have the US able to to reign in Israel.

This entire affair is just more stupid Trumpian Foreign Policy.

[Acidbaron]

Saying that either you are obedient or you'll lose financial support means that well, the US will have less control over certain matters as others will step in and take up that role.

This is like saying to the european nations that if they don't fully agree with everything the US says during the Cold War they'll just back out. Any idea how happy the USSR would have been with a type like Trump as president during that era? If he is going to target ME nations all this is going to cause is make Iran and SA attempt to take up the check that the US left open and that will mean further division in a region that is already heavily destabilized. What again is going to increase the refugee streams, what again is going to further sour the relationship between the US and the EU, so this is a loss on all fronts for the US.

Further self inflicted harm that's all i see here, but those that think you can bully the world and think you are strong alone based on some misplaced sense of patriotism think this is a good move, but it's not like that category of person embraces individual or critical thinking for over a year so don't expect it to happen now.

[Mittens]

Minor correction: We don't eat food grown in the USA, because the antibiotics, hormones and additives that are used by US farmers and food processors are illegal here due to the health concerns.

None of it being unsafe to consume. It's just blatant protectionism from EU countries and their obsession with having an inefficient farming industry.

[Breccia]

Just a reminder: this is a General Assembly vote. The USA does not have veto power. Thanks to Trump's direct words and actions, the USA is about to be condemned by the UN and there is no longer anything we can do about it.

[Acidbaron]

None of it being unsafe to consume. It's just blatant protectionism from EU countries and their obsession with having an inefficient farming industry.

The EU controls antibiotic use on live stock and the final product, the US only the final product, hence the problem of super bacteria in the US and not in the EU.

Knowing that i find it more than normal our markets won't be opened to your products, why would i want to eat that? Because it's more efficient at the cost of quality? No thanks

[Machismo]

When it comes to votes like this, the United States has a very long history of trying to bully other countries into voting the way we want them to vote. Let's be honest, that's been a major part of UN policy over the past 40 years. As for this vote, we are going to be largely condemned for our declaration of Jerusalem being the capital, and we will look like petty bullies for trying to threaten the other countries.

[Sky High]

Pffffffft

I’m sure they’re all quaking in their boots at that prospect. God this administration is just full of fucking idiots, T to B.

[breadisfunny]

Trump can destroy in months what it took others decades to build. No other president has damaged international relations in such a scope.

i see no point in having relations with turkey when its run by edrogan.

[Sky High]

i see no point in having relations with turkey when its run by edrogan.

Yet we’re buddy buddy with the Saudis? Let’s stop pretending like we have some sort of standards for who our friends are beyond what we can milk out of them.

[Trifle]

None of it being unsafe to consume. It's just blatant protectionism from EU countries and their obsession with having an inefficient farming industry.

As opposed to the American farming industry? If you want to talk about inefficiencies, just look at what you do with corn ! (eg making candy out of it, and then feeding that candy to cows... wtf)

[Felya]

As opposed to the American farming industry? If you want to talk about inefficiencies, just look at what you do with corn ! (eg making candy out of it, and then feeding that candy to cows... wtf)

That’s Reagan for you. Subsidizing corn was his way to save the farms.

[Arunu]

Trump has every right to be angry. USA saved Europe TWICE and rather then killing the Germans and salting the earth USA helped them, paid for them, rebuilt them and allowed them to become #1 in Europe. USA protected Europe from the USSR. Europe watches all the movies and plays all the games made in the USA. They buy products made or designed in the USA, and eat food grown in the USA. They would come running and crying begging for help on their knees if Russia or China attacked them, or if they had a food shortage or any other major issue. So yes, they owe the USA.

You really think that don't you ?
can you outline what exactly you think the USA did for WW1 ? big battles, major involvements etc ?

not even getting into WW2, the USA was crucial in supplying aid and many other factors but you realize most of it's fighting was in the pacific theater no ?

[Mittens]

As opposed to the American farming industry? If you want to talk about inefficiencies, just look at what you do with corn ! (eg making candy out of it, and then feeding that candy to cows... wtf)

I'm sorry but your complaints fall flat when TFP growth in NA agriculture trashes Europe.

[Mavett]

Just a reminder: this is a General Assembly vote. The USA does not have veto power. Thanks to Trump's direct words and actions, the USA is about to be condemned by the UN and there is no longer anything we can do about it.

Just a reminder, UNGA resolutions are only good as toilet paper.

[want my Slimjim]

You realize Israel is occupying another country, right?

And should be to stop the threat with our help

[Machismo]

Just a reminder, UNGA resolutions are only good as toilet paper.

In the long term it can isolate specific nations, and place diplomatic pressure on them. Just like happened with apartheid in South Africa, the continued pressure from foreign nations will eventually pressure the United States to shift it's support of Israel's own version of apartheid.

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And should be to stop the threat with our help

It doesn't surprise me that a guy who wrote a thread about his favorite way to read Mein Kampf would support such things.

[Elegiac]

Just a reminder, UNGA resolutions are only good as toilet paper.

Bad optics are a thing, you know.

Fundamentally the only people who believe 'optics don't matter because the US can do what it likes' are stupid people; a bad image internationally makes things that would otherwise be much easier significantly more difficult to achieve.

[Mavett]

In the long term it can isolate specific nations, and place diplomatic pressure on them. Just like happened with apartheid in South Africa, the continued pressure from foreign nations will eventually pressure the United States to shift it's support of Israel's own version of apartheid.

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It doesn't surprise me that a guy who wrote a thread about his favorite way to read Mein Kampf would support such things.

Short term or long term UNGA resolutions are non binding, no country is going to shit on its interests to cave in for diplomatic pressure from a UNGA resolution.

[want my Slimjim]

In the long term it can isolate specific nations, and place diplomatic pressure on them. Just like happened with apartheid in South Africa, the continued pressure from foreign nations will eventually pressure the United States to shift it's support of Israel's own version of apartheid.

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It doesn't surprise me that a guy who wrote a thread about his favorite way to read Mein Kampf would support such things.

Flinging ad hominems are we? So you prefer Israel sits on it's ass while Palestine acts like the devil? That's embarrassing