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  1. #1
    Dreadlord nacixems's Avatar
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    Trumps xmas Tax gift.

    There's a good evaluation of the tax bill in the AJC this morning by Kyle Wingfield.

    Cut and pasted below:

    The Republican tax-reform bill is on its way to President Donald Trump’s desk. The bill makes major, long-needed changes to the corporate income tax and cuts rates across the board for individuals.
    Yet, two refrains won’t go away:
    first, that the bill is skewed in favor of “the rich”; and second, that it is unpopular.
    The second is almost certainly a result of the first, which has been drilled into Americans’ heads via nearly everything they’re heard about it beyond GOP press releases.

    But the truth is very different.

    The premise that the bill favors “the rich” is based on the fact they will get larger cuts in terms of actual dollars. Well, yeah: They also pay most of the taxes in terms of actual dollars, and it’s not even close.

    Since the 2003 Bush tax cuts, the top 20 percent of earners have paid between 85 percent and 95 percent of all federal income taxes in any given year. For the top 1 percent, it’s been at least 38 percent. In both cases — and despite the left’s insistence the Bush tax cuts were primarily for “the rich” — their share of the tax burden has been higher than at any point since at least Jimmy Carter’s presidency.

    So, the relevant question is how the benefit for upper-earners from this bill compares to what they pay in federal taxes — and then what that looks like relative to other income groups. To make these comparisons, I used the analysis of the bill by the left-leaning Tax Policy Center. What I found may surprise you.

    First takeaway: The bottom four quintiles, or 80 percent of American taxpayers, all receive a larger share of the tax bill’s benefits than their share of income taxes.
    For example, the middle quintile gets only 11 percent of the tax cut, which may not sound very fair. But then again, that group pays less than 4 percent of all income taxes. Seen in that light, their cut looks much better.

    Second takeaway: The top quintile, and only the top quintile, receives a smaller share of the tax bill’s benefits than their share of income taxes. While they pay more than 85 percent of income taxes, they get less than 65 percent of the bill’s benefits.

    Third takeaway: Even within the top quintile, the top 1 percent gets the smallest share of benefits relative to their share of income taxes (about 20 percent of the benefit vs. 40 percent of taxes paid).

    Now, the federal income tax is particularly progressive. So I also looked at all federal taxes paid, such as payroll taxes. The distribution is more even when accounting for those other taxes, but the basic story is the same.

    The bottom four quintiles fare better relative to what they pay now, but the top quintile does not. (For more on all this, including detailed data tables, visit kylewingfield.blog.myajc.com.)
    Perhaps the bill wouldn’t be quite so unpopular if more people understood how these distributions work. It might also help if more people understood they’ll be getting a tax cut.

    A new poll this week for Politico/Morning Consult illustrates the disconnect. The poll found only one-fifth of Americans expect a tax cut. But the opposite is true: The Tax Policy Center projects that four-fifths of taxpayers will pay less.

    Just how unrealistic are Americans about this bill? Although the Tax Policy Center estimates less than 5 percent will pay more in taxes due to this bill, the Politico poll found one-third expect their taxes to go up.


  2. #2
    Not a single mention of the percentage of the country's income these groups receive compared to the percentage of the country's taxes they pay. Convenient.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Seezer's Avatar
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    This is what happens when we have party over country in the US. The people who are going to get screwed will easily let that slide because "My guy won". Which is all they care about. But then nerdrage over emails endlessly. Their entire basis for saying they believe in this is trickle down economics. Which failed under Reagan, and will fail here.
    Last edited by Seezer; 2017-12-21 at 03:55 PM.
    "Do you think man will ever walk on the sun? -Ali G

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Not a single mention of the percentage of the country's income these groups receive compared to the percentage of the country's taxes they pay. Convenient.
    This. /thread

  5. #5
    IT completely ignores the massive increase to the deficit along with tax changes after the first 5 years. He cherry picked some points that take into account overall percentage of total income, as well as the differing value of that income across pay grades.

  6. #6
    The tax bill is a mixed bag. It will mean tax cuts for most people, and will spur economic growth. Both of those things are good. As for the bad, the issue is that it is just as convoluted as the old system, and will mean even more debt and deficit spending.

    All told, if they don't start to significantly cut spending, this will end up being a bad bill in the long term. It could end up being the abortion that was the Bush tax cuts. We shall see in the next budget.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2017-12-21 at 03:58 PM.

  7. #7
    Imagine how much more the average American would save if they didn't give the rich any cuts they don't need, though.

    And it makes sense their tax burden is getting higher. They're increasingly getting a greater share of the US economy's money. The richest have the most wealth now than at any point in history, why wouldn't they be getting taxed more than ever? They're becoming the only people who can afford to pay taxes.

  8. #8
    "...which has been drilled into Americans’ heads via nearly everything they’re heard about it beyond GOP press releases."

    Once again, the only group singing its praises is the one with a vested interest in seeing it pass:

    "Don't listen to the Democratic criticism, they are just politically motivated!" (okay, could be).

    "And don't listen to the independent criticism, their models are just wrong!" (okay, sure, but the historical evidence tends to support their predictions).

    "And whatever you do, don't listen to us over the past 3 decades, deficit-hawk-shmeficit-hawk!" (...)

    The point is, when EVERYONE else is saying it's a bad deal, maybe it's just a bad fucking deal and not some grand MSM libtard conspiracy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nacixems View Post
    There's a good evaluation of the tax bill in the AJC this morning by Kyle Wingfield.

    Cut and pasted below:
    Meanwhile, sick children are being told 3 days before CHristmas that they're not longer eligible for their healthcare plans.
    What a joyous gift to recieve!

  10. #10
    Am I the only one happy my taxes are being cut?

    Seems so.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nacixems View Post
    the top 20 percent of earners have paid between 85 percent and 95 percent of all federal income taxes in any given year. For the top 1 percent, it’s been at least 38 percent. In both cases — and despite the left’s insistence the Bush tax cuts were primarily for “the rich” — their share of the tax burden has been higher than at any point since at least Jimmy Carter’s presidency.
    Wow, it's almost like the top 20% make 99.999% of the income, you would think it would make sense that they pay 99.999% of the tax too. The fact they earn more percentage of wealth than they're taxed on is the crux of the issue. It stuns me how conservative media spins this, even if they were burdened with 99.999% of the tax income, they would be grossly out earning virtually everyone on the planet. This is a garbage article, calling it a "good" analysis is nothing short than insulting for anyone with a brain. This is pure conservative propaganda to justify middle class theft.
    Last edited by Vellus; 2017-12-21 at 04:13 PM.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    Am I the only one happy my taxes are being cut?

    Seems so.
    Because you're favoring party over country. And nothing will change that. These cuts are going to go to the shareholders. Paying higher dividends, paying down debt, buying smaller companies. Anyone who believed anything these guys are saying are just favoring their guy and their party over what is best for the country.
    "Do you think man will ever walk on the sun? -Ali G

  13. #13
    We think the new tax bill is going to be a wash for us, like 90% of Americans we consider ourselves to be middle class.

    The very rich and corporations are the big winners obviously.

    A lot of the tax breaks we got will expire in a few years.
    .

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    -- Capt. Copeland

  14. #14
    Legendary! Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellus View Post
    Wow, it's almost like the top 20% make 99.999% of the income, you would think it would make sense that they pay 99.999% of the tax too. The fact they earn more percentage of wealth than they're taxed on is the crux of the issue. It stuns me how conservative media spins this, even if they were burdened with 99.999% of the tax income, they would be grossly out earning virtually everyone on the planet. This is a garbage article, calling it a "good" analysis is nothing short than insulting for anyone with a brain. This is pure conservative propaganda to justify middle class theft.
    This. History will show it too. And everyone who sung Trump's praises we can all point and laugh at them for swallowing every inch the Republicans were feeding them.
    "Do you think man will ever walk on the sun? -Ali G

  15. #15
    Banned BuckSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    Am I the only one happy my taxes are being cut?

    Seems so.
    I am pretty happy. Only people mad at the same people that are screaming the internet is going to end because net neutrality going away (a thing only put in place 2 years ago.) Or the people that are screaming that Trump wants to kill people and take away their healthcare (which again, existed before obama)

    They are just hyped up in fear and anger from the media.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    Am I the only one happy my taxes are being cut?

    Seems so.
    Unless your Koch brothers rich you’re only kidding yourself.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    Meanwhile, sick children are being told 3 days before CHristmas that they're not longer eligible for their healthcare plans.
    What a joyous gift to recieve!
    The parents of those children should have been able to pay for any issue that came up before having them. If I keep more of MY money, who cares what happens to bums I don't know?

  18. #18
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruor View Post
    The parents of those children should have been able to pay for any issue that came up before having them. If I keep more of MY money, who cares what happens to bums I don't know?
    If you're living in a red state then no, it's not 'your' money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by nacixems View Post
    There's a good evaluation of the tax bill in the AJC this morning by Kyle Wingfield.

    Cut and pasted below:
    What Looney website was this taken from?

    I've read tea party shit that made more sense.

  20. #20
    Banned BuckSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    If you're living in a red state then no, it's not 'your' money.
    I am glad you think the money somebody makes and earns is not their money.

    Here, let me take some of your money. Clearly not yours either.

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