Mythic raiding guild that uses dkp? Anyone?

[Cosmic Janitor]

At top level when every little dps counts, and when progress is measured in weeks sure.And even then, guilds are doing splits to ensure healers are well geared from heroic, this isn't dota where you are progressing the last mythic boss with your healers having brown boots.

When you're past world 50, honestly that dogma applies negatively to guilds progressing, where you should keep on eye on who is likely to stay in the guild/be an asset and not on the OP example above.

I gotta agree with this post.

[Holofernes]

I want to attend raids to kill bosses and dont shoot me for saying this but i would really like my fair share of epics aswell .

Bit tired of freind council now.

P.s before people go off on one... your in a council or a councils pet, i already know so shut ya face greedy :P

Any eu please im game for transfer, 964 resto druid available tue, wed,thu,sat

964.. seems you got your fair share of loot to me and yeah, tanks and heals get equipped last in general.

[Moozart]

I want to attend raids to kill bosses and dont shoot me for saying this but i would really like my fair share of epics aswell .

Bit tired of freind council now.

P.s before people go off on one... your in a council or a councils pet, i already know so shut ya face greedy :P

Any eu please im game for transfer, 964 resto druid available tue, wed,thu,sat

So you are looking for a guild that benefits YOU and not the Guild... Got it

Wonder how that other player is liking the item you didn't get before making this post?

[Zensunni]

So you are looking for a guild that benefits YOU and not the Guild... Got it

Wonder how that other player is liking the item you didn't get before making this post?

IMO the absolute best way to run loot is DKP for everything, and Council for all tier pieces. The DKP system naturally funnels the biggest upgrades to the right people (if they are smart), and doing tier with council ensures the fastest/best set bonus distribution.

As far as overall issues with Loot Council, I couldn't agree more with the OP - every loot council I've ever been a part of engaged in favoritism, which generated drama. I'm sure with bleeding edge progression it's the best way to go, and I know that EVERY SINGLE PERSON on these forums is a world top 20 player in a bleeding edge guild, but for the rest of us casual mythic raiders, council is often really lame.

[hulkgor]

I want to attend raids to kill bosses and dont shoot me for saying this but i would really like my fair share of epics aswell .

Bit tired of freind council now.

P.s before people go off on one... your in a council or a councils pet, i already know so shut ya face greedy :P

Any eu please im game for transfer, 964 resto druid available tue, wed,thu,sat

Lots of guilds still use EPGP or DKP systems, you'll be fine. Out of the nearly 13 years i raided in WoW, we only tried Loot Council at the start of Cataclysm, and in less than 2 weeks, we realized it just wasn't right for us.

Not worth the hassle if you're not a top 10 guild racing for world first or whatever.

[Valrok]

Its a game. People sometimes get a bit too caught up in this idea of trying to integrate altruism into things like mmo's. There's nothing wrong with someone wanting more control over loot due to the fact that many if not most raid leaders who have control over loot will favor people in their clique or they've known a long time.

Uh this isn't altruism? assuming you're in any kind of competent guild they'd understand favoritism of loot is incredibly stupid, and if you choose to be in a group that follows "cliques" and whatever that's on you

[RoKPaNda]

Oh loot council is absolute shit, of course if you're in with your guild leaders you love it because you generally get more things. Even in the ones that aren't horribly corrupt there are still people who get things they shouldn't because of who they're close to. Or people subscribe to theories about the best gearing strategy that may not even apply to their situation. A point system is more fair, but a loot council system is, in theory, somewhat better for progression assuming zero corruption. Good luck finding that.

[Berndorf]

Uh this isn't altruism? assuming you're in any kind of competent guild they'd understand favoritism of loot is incredibly stupid, and if you choose to be in a group that follows "cliques" and whatever that's on you

It isn't on me because I'm not in such a guild. I don't even competitively raid any longer. I've been in a number of raiding guilds though and they all had cliques and loot wasn't always dispensed in the most fair way possible. That's a very common thing in wow.

[SirBeef]

I want to attend raids to kill bosses and dont shoot me for saying this but i would really like my fair share of epics aswell .

Bit tired of freind council now.

P.s before people go off on one... your in a council or a councils pet, i already know so shut ya face greedy :P

Any eu please im game for transfer, 964 resto druid available tue, wed,thu,sat

Mythic guild that uses personal loot. Before you ask, we are not a progression guild, we just relax and have fun and usually out gear later bosses but we usually clear mythic well before the next raid. Before personal loot we used a straight roll. Then you can't roll again unless no one else needs the item. Haven't used DKP since Vanilla, was in plenty of loot council guilds until Cata. Ben in the same guild since.

[Lochton]

DKP is outdated. I don't even think I've heard of any recent guilds that uses it.

[Vulgrym]

Soo it is a lot of hassle and drama and I’m not really sure it’s worth it. If you want to reward effort, use EPGP. Too bad it requires some basic understanding of how division works or else it just confuses people and they think it’s rigged :P but oh boy do I miss it. No bidding, fair distribution and the loot handling goes fast!

We use EPGP. You're right, it's a bit mathy but if you tweak the variables right (you especially have to ensure aggressive point decay to make sure recruits/spenders else are caught up very fast), it's an equitable system.

I acknowledge that LC theoretically puts the 'best gear' in the hands of the people who will be in for the hardest bosses, but it assumes many things (optimal decision making, no bias, no significant encounter changes or class re-balancing, future attendance etc.). In my experience, it only really matters at the very top end of progression, where guilds are taking ~2 weeks to clear a tier. Just looking at recent tiers, we typically take ~12 weeks and to be completely honest, gear has smoothed out enough by then such that those decisions mean much less, so we put an emphasis on spreading it around.

[Bronan]

I once witnesses some DKP loot drama.

It was back in WOTLK. We were doing Naxx and were struggling with Kel'Thuzad 25. Eventually we downed and he dropped hunter head token and rifle. This hunter guy in the raid rolled on both and won them because he had the most dkp. Some people got pissed.

[Fitsu]

I've guild hopped quite a lot over the years... Every guild I've joined has used loot council, and I have never experienced this preferential treatment people complain about.

What I have experienced, is people who either want all the loot and act like they get nothing. Or people who are last in line to get loot because they are bad and then claim it to be "preferential treatment". If your truely in a guild that hands loot to friends first, u should just leave as I have no idea how such a selfish single minded leader could lead a guild through mythic.

As far as I'm concerned, no half-decent guild is going to use archaic and just straight up worse systems like DKP and if you are constantly joining guilds who use loot council and experience a draught in loot being passed to ureself it's either because your new and haven't proven yourself... Or just not very good.

[Alydael]

I want to attend raids to kill bosses and dont shoot me for saying this but i would really like my fair share of epics aswell .

Bit tired of freind council now.

P.s before people go off on one... your in a council or a councils pet, i already know so shut ya face greedy :P

Any eu please im game for transfer, 964 resto druid available tue, wed,thu,sat

Why would you run with a guild that still uses dkp? dkp is a relic from the days before they changed the loot rules. It is no longer relevant. Sounds like a sneaky way to just keep the good loot for yourself and your friends.

[moveth]

I havent been in a guild with loot drama in literal years at this point. If your guild is still dealing with loot drama, find a guild of adults?

[seniorproc]

the team being your mates and your clique right?

I pass on 9/10 items due to being incredibly geared already due to farming m+

is 1 item every 2/3 weeks or somewhere along those lines really too much to ask? that is what i would consider a fair share, doesnt even have to be that much of an upgrade, just something! anything! +5 ilvl boots! anything! just stop gearing your goddamn mates only, you know, include me in the "team" that is moving forward too

Sooo you think it would be better to give you a +5 itemelevel upgrade rather than another guy who would get maybe +10 or +15? that is probably why you don't get loot. Or your perfomance. Hard to tell when i don't know you.

[Deleted]

As someone who has voting rights in his council, I still feel with OP.

I do believe we do a better job distributing loot for easier progression with it. But it is a lot of discussion and work involved. And regardless of how fair you think you are, there will always be drama. People get tangled up and in their PoV that they truly are the one person that has gone without loot for the longest, and it might feel that way but a proper council does have loot history lists so that often isn’t the case. But it sure might feel like it when you don’t have all the data and considerations yourself.

Soo it is a lot of hassle and drama and I’m not really sure it’s worth it. If you want to reward effort, use EPGP. Too bad it requires some basic understanding of how division works or else it just confuses people and they think it’s rigged :P but oh boy do I miss it. No bidding, fair distribution and the loot handling goes fast!

In my case i couldnt give 2 shits about items, il get mine by coin if i have to, as long as its fair, what really bothers me is when its just officers gearing themselves and there mates. because they think they are the best players in the guild and everything should go to them first. its wrong.

Peoples opinion can be wrong. i dont pretend to know the first thing about an enhance shaman, but i could be officer and make judgements to hand out loot "for the benefit of the guild" its bullshit, its just opinions and in my experience in low / mid end guilds its always biased.

I was in a guild where i was the gms favourite, i got given everything, i absolutely hated it and left because of how shitty a person he was, he didnt give a damn about other ppl. a bit of strength is needed in an officers position, strength enough to tell your mates no you have already had 7 items in the last 4 weeks, this person hasnt had anything.

If you are a real officer of a high end guild you would no doubt do this, be an officer first and a freind second, so many guilds have it the wrong way round, they use being an officer as a way to help there freinds. its not for the good of the guild at all.

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Sooo you think it would be better to give you a +5 itemelevel upgrade rather than another guy who would get maybe +10 or +15? that is probably why you don't get loot. Or your perfomance. Hard to tell when i don't know you.

when the other guy has received 10 items in the last 4 weeks why is it ok to give him everything because he doesnt farm m+?

Your theory doesnt inspire geared players to attend, because i farmed hard m+ does that mean i should have less chance of an upgrade because the officers mate couldnt be arsed to farm m+?

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We have been using loot council since cata and we have never had any guidlie complain about loot distribution. With DKP system you have players hoarding DKP for a specific item and skipping legit upgrades in the process and halting raid progress where loot council steadily helps raid group to progress. DKP system is fine for guilds that doesnt function well and people dont trust each other.

epgp steadily helps the raid progress too, its still upgrades for people

If someone believes it is better to save epgp for that one item they believe will really benefit them who are the officers to tell that player what is best for his toon?

Ppl dont understand this logic, give the power to people to decide what will benefit them most and they will figure it out, if someone is spending epgp or dkp thats because they think its worth it, it goes a way to show officers etc just how much that player values the item!

Or theres the other way, just gear your mates and fuck everyone else. then cry how the guild has a massive turnover and low attendance from anyone other than the people that get given everything.

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Why would you run with a guild that still uses dkp? dkp is a relic from the days before they changed the loot rules. It is no longer relevant. Sounds like a sneaky way to just keep the good loot for yourself and your friends.

Because i could earn my gear by attendance and be able to bid on that item i really need, not just sit and watch as the gms mate gets his 5th item of the week.

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We use EPGP. You're right, it's a bit mathy but if you tweak the variables right (you especially have to ensure aggressive point decay to make sure recruits/spenders else are caught up very fast), it's an equitable system.

I acknowledge that LC theoretically puts the 'best gear' in the hands of the people who will be in for the hardest bosses, but it assumes many things (optimal decision making, no bias, no significant encounter changes or class re-balancing, future attendance etc.). In my experience, it only really matters at the very top end of progression, where guilds are taking ~2 weeks to clear a tier. Just looking at recent tiers, we typically take ~12 weeks and to be completely honest, gear has smoothed out enough by then such that those decisions mean much less, so we put an emphasis on spreading it around.

"spreading it around" that sounds absolutely amazing, sharing is a nice word, but not something you see in wow, hence all the lc guilds

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Oh loot council is absolute shit, of course if you're in with your guild leaders you love it because you generally get more things. Even in the ones that aren't horribly corrupt there are still people who get things they shouldn't because of who they're close to. Or people subscribe to theories about the best gearing strategy that may not even apply to their situation. A point system is more fair, but a loot council system is, in theory, somewhat better for progression assuming zero corruption. Good luck finding that.

exactly, i was freinds with an officer in my last guild who said to me "i have no idea why i got given the gloves" he was on an alt, just to clarify it wasnt something i went for, but just proved the lc was biased.

[Aggrophobic]

I'm sure there are guilds like that but DKP is a very ineffective way of giving out loot and if you're having issues with loot councils then it might very well be that you're simply not worth giving loot to.

[Deleted]

I'm sure there are guilds like that but DKP is a very ineffective way of giving out loot and if you're having issues with loot councils then it might very well be that you're simply not worth giving loot to.

Could be that, or it could be that the loot council prefer to gear there freinds? which is more likely?

[Aggrophobic]

Could be that, or it could be that the loot council prefer to gear there freinds? which is more likely?

That you are simply not good enough, most likely.