[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Lahis]

Pretty sure even with 4pT21 it's better to cast unempowered wraths than spam Moonfire on 1 target.

But Coven of Shivarra and in some cases Hounds are fights where the bosses are in range of Starfall and LatC cleave.

[Kluian05]

But Coven of Shivarra and in some cases Hounds are fights where the bosses are in range of Starfall and LatC cleave.

Yeah they are making use of the double moonfire from shoulders (so the cleave targets must be within 20 yards). All the parses I saw druids using this setup, they were tanking the dogs on top of each other for the entire fight because they overgeared it.

If tanks are keeping it at 40 yards so you can still starfall but not double moonfire, then I imagine your standard Shoulder/Bracer or Shoulder/Ring build is better.

[Beace]

Yeah they are making use of the double moonfire from shoulders (so the cleave targets must be within 20 yards). All the parses I saw druids using this setup, they were tanking the dogs on top of each other for the entire fight because they overgeared it.

If tanks are keeping it at 40 yards so you can still starfall but not double moonfire, then I imagine your standard Shoulder/Bracer or Shoulder/Ring build is better.

Does Starfall really have 40 yards diameter? Feels more like 25-30 to me, but I've never measured or seen a number for it.

I don't even try for a cleave build on Hounds because there's no way the tanks in my raid are gonna keep them close enough. I've been using regular single target build, with an extra target to keep dots up on. My DPS is kinda low on this fight though (probably due to all the movement).

[Taalyn]

Does Starfall really have 40 yards diameter? Feels more like 25-30 to me, but I've never measured or seen a number for it.

I don't even try for a cleave build on Hounds because there's no way the tanks in my raid are gonna keep them close enough. I've been using regular single target build, with an extra target to keep dots up on. My DPS is kinda low on this fight though (probably due to all the movement).

Try using it anyway. There are multiple fights where I use Starfall and the bosses are not within the graphic but they get the empowerment debuff.

[huth]

Does Starfall really have 40 yards diameter? Feels more like 25-30 to me, but I've never measured or seen a number for it.

I don't even try for a cleave build on Hounds because there's no way the tanks in my raid are gonna keep them close enough. I've been using regular single target build, with an extra target to keep dots up on. My DPS is kinda low on this fight though (probably due to all the movement).

39y actually, if you have SD. Keep in mind that maximum range is calculated to the outer boundary of the hitbox of the target, while minimum range and ground targeted spells use the center, so you're likely to have a skewed perception of distance.
This also helps mitigate the impact of Personnel Decimator's minimum range. Many bosses are so large that it'll still work if you're standing in the melee camp.

[joltcola1234]

Is there a best way right now to go about simming an AoE fight?

Hectic Add Cleave, Beastlord, Patchwerk with multiple bosses, etc.

Is this a boss by boss type thing where you should pick what most closely resembles the fight you are looking it?
Or is there one style to look at that's going to give you the most accurate results?

[Lahis]

Is there a best way right now to go about simming an AoE fight?

Hectic Add Cleave, Beastlord, Patchwerk with multiple bosses, etc.

Is this a boss by boss type thing where you should pick what most closely resembles the fight you are looking it?
Or is there one style to look at that's going to give you the most accurate results?

Patchwerk with multiple bosses for fights with many bosses up (Coven of shivarra this tier). I think Beastlord should fit rest of the AoE fights with their periodic adds.

[joltcola1234]

Patchwerk with multiple bosses for fights with many bosses up (Coven of shivarra this tier). I think Beastlord should fit rest of the AoE fights with their periodic adds.

I was told last night on Discord to ONLY use Patchwerk with multiple bosses.
Apparently the other setups don't work properly...

[Deleted]

I was told last night on Discord to ONLY use Patchwerk with multiple bosses.
Apparently the other setups don't work properly...

And that is the correct answer unless you manually adjust the APL to play around the specific encounter setup you choose. There is also very little point in getting stat values from encounter types like Beastlord since you will never actually prioritize add damage the same as boss damage.

[Selerian]

Was taking a look at the Boomy Rankings for Heroic Coven of Shivarra and noticed there are some high ranked people using the LotC/Radiant Moonlight combo with Starlord. That makes no sense because if you use the cloak instead of bracers you are never going to cast Starsurge in that fight, making Starlord a dead talent. Am I missing something here and how are these ppl that high playing effectively with one less talent?

[Deleted]

Was taking a look at the Boomy Rankings for Heroic Coven of Shivarra and noticed there are some high ranked people using the LotC/Radiant Moonlight combo with Starlord. That makes no sense because if you use the cloak instead of bracers you are never going to cast Starsurge in that fight, making Starlord a dead talent. Am I missing something here and how are these ppl that high playing effectively with one less talent?

Tier one talents are super weak for AOE. Using WoE or FoN would be slightly better, but it's pretty insignificant.

[Selerian]

Tier one talents are super weak for AOE. Using WoE or FoN would be slightly better, but it's pretty insignificant.

Even so, Starlord is absolutely dead in that fight with that particular gear setup, so even the small dmg increase from FoN or WoE is better than zero.
Anyway i'm just nitpicking but I'd expect from someone top'ing the meters to min-max properly.

[XcrossroadX]

Even so, Starlord is absolutely dead in that fight with that particular gear setup, so even the small dmg increase from FoN or WoE is better than zero.
Anyway i'm just nitpicking but I'd expect from someone top'ing the meters to min-max properly.

If you look at the very top parse (which I assume you've already looked at) you'll see that the boomy cast SS 7 times. So he did get a small bit of use out of Starlord, but the real question is why did they cast SS at all. I'm guessing possibly for burst damage against some of the adds, but I'm at work right now and can't verify if that's the case.

[Selerian]

If you look at the very top parse (which I assume you've already looked at) you'll see that the boomy cast SS 7 times. So he did get a small bit of use out of Starlord, but the real question is why did they cast SS at all. I'm guessing possibly for burst damage against some of the adds, but I'm at work right now and can't verify if that's the case.

Those starsurges are procs from the bracers so ye Starlord in that situation makes sense. The issue is when you're using cloak instead of bracers, where there is absolutely no chance you 're ever going to cast an ss, making Starlord totally useless.

[XcrossroadX]

Those starsurges are procs from the bracers so ye Starlord in that situation makes sense. The issue is when you're using cloak instead of bracers, where there is absolutely no chance you 're ever going to cast an ss, making Starlord totally useless.

Ahh, good catch. Didn't notice the bracers there. And I agree, I see no reason not to take WoE on memefire fights; it's a free SF every 45 seconds vs. 0 benefit from Starlord if played optimally.

[Schaedel]

hey guys
i am a new member so i hope its not offtopic here.
my question to the community. How much haste we schould have in the the singeltarget fight. i play for st, 4/t20 and 2/t21 with wrists and ring.
in this combination i have 36% haste and 90% mastery. have we a brakepoint of haste?
Sorry my english is bad pls forgives

[huth]

No real breakpoints to speak off. We're mostly limited by gear availability.

[joltcola1234]

hey guys
i am a new member so i hope its not offtopic here.
my question to the community. How much haste we schould have in the the singeltarget fight. i play for st, 4/t20 and 2/t21 with wrists and ring.
in this combination i have 36% haste and 90% mastery. have we a brakepoint of haste?
Sorry my english is bad pls forgives

I don't think there is a real optimal amount. My haste fluctuates between 25% and 30% usually, but it really depends on what gear you have and what the sims say.

30% kind of feels like a good number to be around for most of the expansion, but that just "feels" good, there isn't any need to aim for that.

[littlebougui]

Hello,

I'm looking for explantations for trinket, i'm a bit lost, wich should i Use for Aoe or Single target.

Trinket list available :

Arcano Crystal 860Ilvl (no luck with argunite)
Acrid Catalyst : 945 Ilvl
Norgannon Prowess : 950Ilvl
Prototype Personnal 945 Ilvl (very disappointed in AOE)

Should I keep arcano in all situation's ?
I thought that Norgannon > all

Another Question if I may

I have Latc for Aoe situation but that broke my 4pt21, what should I do ? Keep my 4P or equip LATC ?

I use Simcraft, for Aoe situation, boss like High command or MM+, Should I put 2/3 boss in option ?

Really sorry for my english, hope that everything is clear.

Let me know something

Little

[huth]

Acrid Catalyst Injector and Norgannon should be your go-tos for nearly everything if memory serves. Only other trinket to even consider at that point would be Aman'thul.