Tirion > Turalyon

[therealstegblob]

and that wonderful voice!

You mean the generic anime voice actor who voices him, compared to the wholly unique and non-overused voice of Tirion? Right.

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Tirion allready killed Arthas, us killing arthas isnt canon its for raid reasons, the actual lore you got arthas dueling tirion on the top of icecrown and tirion winning.

No you don't. The lore is that Tirion and "a group of adventures" fight Arthas. Arthas kills the adventurers (which is happens in the raid, we don't beat the Lich King, we lose to him) and then Tirion manages to pray to the light and hits Arthas, breaking Frostmourne and then the ghosties come out and we murder a defenseless Arthas.

Unless there's some lore somewhere I'm not aware of that says they duel, the lore is that adventures fight with Tirion.

[Wishblade]

You mean the generic anime voice actor who voices him, compared to the wholly unique and non-overused voice of Tirion? Right.

Indeed I do! Can't all be special snowflakes and might as well make it someone recognizable when they're not.

No you don't. The lore is that Tirion and "a group of adventures" fight Arthas. Arthas kills the adventurers (which is happens in the raid, we don't beat the Lich King, we lose to him) and then Tirion manages to pray to the light and hits Arthas, breaking Frostmourne and then the ghosties come out and we murder a defenseless Arthas.

Unless there's some lore somewhere I'm not aware of that says they duel, the lore is that adventures fight with Tirion.

I would like to see where this is said. Wouldn't surprise me if it was the case at this point but I don't recall the source stating that Tirion and the Lich King had a proper fight in Icecrown Citadel.

[CreatureLives]

Tirion is great and had more development but he's not Turalyon. Tirion was killed by lower ranking demons invading Azeroth. Easily. Turalyon has been fighting them for over 1000 years on their turf and is still alive.

Also, I have no idea why you are using Illidan stopping a single attack as an example for how strong he is. That never even escalated very far. Catching a weapon doesn't mean anything. I'm not saying Illidan couldn't beat him either either. We literally have no idea how strong Illidan actually is. Even when weakened. Also, who is to say the same couldn't happen to Tirion.

Tirion was probably stronger than Turalyon BEFORE Turalyon left Azeroth but current Argus Turalyon I just don't see it. Also, The Burning Legion could obliterate The Scourge with no effort.

As for their past accomplishments its really hard to compare because we aren't as familiar with the demons as we are with the things Tirion has fought. Turalyon has been fighting extremely strong but unknown enemies so it doesn't seem as impressive because we haven't seen his side of the story. We've watched Tirion and dealt with the same enemies as him so they feel like bigger deals when in reality even the lower ranking demons are more powerful than a lot of what Tirion has faced. Even Varian was outmatched by a couple demons. The Legion killed both Tirion & Varian easily. This was not the case with Turalyon even though he was massively outnumbered for a very very very long time.

Turalyon is a big fish in a big pond
Tirion is a big fish in a small pond

[therealstegblob]

Indeed I do! Can't all be special snowflakes and might as well make it someone recognizable when they're not.

I never thought I'd see the day when someone actually says that a unique voice actor is "special snowflake" versus an overused voice actor in an industry (video game/anime) that is mainly comprised of the same small circle of voice performers. But here we are.

[Darktbs]

Make the differences between Argus and Antorus.
The army of the light doesn't do sh*t in Antorus, they get absolutely annihilated by the Garothi Worldbreaker and later only help us through giving us free rides around the place.
Lore Wise they play 0 part in the Burning Throne events which are the most important ones, the only characters present are Velen,Illidan and Magni

Turalyon and the army of the light never even entered the Burning Throne part of Antorus, they were left far behind after we set off to fight Imonar and they could no longer play UBER for us.

How much of the Raid you done?Hell even in LFR?Look around you, they are EVERYWHERE.

Yes we fight the bosses for Gameplay purposes but the Army of the Light is showed to be constantly fighting in Antorus.

Unlike ICC where we only see the Argent crusade once, Antorus we see them in every step of the way.

Seriously you are just cherry picking to make your argumment look strong but it does the oposite.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Id say that while Tirion is probably( its hard to gauge paladin strength) weaker than Turalyon, he's over all a more likable character.

[Kraddark]

Tirion wielded the ashbringer which was a pretty big power boost. He died to a pretty much no-name demon. Tirion also fought the Lich King alongside 25 heroes. The events of the game are canon. They battled the Lich King. They were killed. Tirion resurrected them and took the opportunity to shatter frostmourne. The freed spirits held the Lich King back while the heroes finished him.

Just because some in-game characters tell a different story doesn't make their version canon. If that was the case, the horde betrayed the alliance at the broken shore...

[Qualia]

Paid attention to him? KJ himself came to speak with him at the Black Temple..

I don't really care about your point, I just don't see how you can downplay the relationship between KJ and Illidan like that..

? I'm not sure how it's supposed to be downplaying their relationship, unless you are having some sort of comprehension problems. KJ came to speak with Illidan means the later attracted KJ's attention. I've never said KJ only paid attention to Illidan and nothing else. Attracting KJ's attention was one of the reasons why every other interactions between them happened. The point is, Kil'Jaeden cared enough about Illidan to know who he is and put him into the picture. He didn't seem to do the same about Tirion.

Are we clear now?

Make the differences between Argus and Antorus.
The army of the light doesn't do sh*t in Antorus, they get absolutely annihilated by the Garothi Worldbreaker and later only help us through giving us free rides around the place.
Lore Wise they play 0 part in the Burning Throne events which are the most important ones, the only characters present are Velen,Illidan and Magni

So basically, you are saying that Turalyon isn't as great as Tirion because he didn't play any significant part in game, regardless of what he does out of it? Sorry, that's not how lore discussion goes. In that logic, I guess Malfurion isn't one of the most powerful mortals (if not the most) on Azeroth anymore since he didn't play any significant part in Legion. Or not.

Additionally, as others have said, the Argent Crusade's enemy was nowhere comparable to what the Army of the Light faced. The LK wasn't even bother trying to win - in fact, he was guiding us towards him, so I'm sure it must have been reallly hard to win against an enemy's force who was trying to indirectly help us to win until the end. The Legion force at Broken Shore was just a tiny fragment of the whole, not anywhere close to their force on Argus. Sure, the Army of the Light is more powerful than the Argent Dawn, there is no doubt about it - but the point is, they also faced enemies many times more dangerous. It even out the levels of danger of the situations somewhat. Again, I'm not talking about the Argus invasion in-game, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Azeroth champion. I'm talking about the time the Army of the Light got trapped on Argus years ago. There weren't any Azeroth champion there. There weren't any "futuristic technology" either. They couldn't even teleport away to retreat, but had to fight against the demons there when every demons on Argus were closing in to create an opening for the transport device to land.

Obviously, Turalyon is the war leader of the Army of the Light. Xe'ra is a figurehead. The difference between a President and a General. Who do you think should get credited when the army does well in war? Are you saying that all of real life generals aren't anything to write about as most of them didn't create an army out of nothing either?

Illidan lost to Arthas that is factual, I'm not interested in how or why, he flat out lost to Arthas whether you like it or not, making silly excuses won't change a damn thing,
regardless they were already both superior to Turalyon back then, yes Illidan grew in power but so did Arthas, Legion Illidan is obviously stronger but by how much we don't know, however we know that Turalyon was stopped easily by a weakened Illidan and that was a PISSED OFF Turalyon.

Sorry, PiS need to be taken into account when you are talking about power level. You can't say Arthas > Illidan when the later lost simply because he was careless / plot required it. Do you by any chance think that we > Kil'Jaeden as well - I mean, we certainly defeated him. Just ignore the fact that he never used his planet destroying spell, that is.

Lastly to all of those who say artifact weapon is the key difference between Tirion and Turalyon portrayals in their respective expac (Tirion being > Azeroth Champs and Turalyon being irrelevant) why are you ignoring how Turalyon is non factor even compared to Illidan,Magni and Velen? He's not amongst the people who go to the Burning Throne alongside us because he's neither our leader nor our superior.

Tirion, canonically, isn't even equal to Azeroth champions now. In the Paladin class hall, it was said that the Paladin class leader is more powerful than Tirion, that Ashbringer in our hand was more powerful than it ever were, so no, he isn't. If you are talking about ICC, it is the past, we've grown a lot in power since then.

Moreover, again, I'm sure with how the discussion is going on, we aren't discussing who has higher story relevancy or who has better character (that's why I didn't argue against the one who said Turalyon's character wasn't as interesting - they aren't wrong), but who is greater leader of their force or is more powerful, so Turalyon being less relevant - or in your word, isn't a special snowflake - than Velen, Magni, or Illidan doesn't mean anything.

[Skyforge1]

Very biased OP
Turalyon fought the Legion for 1000 years and survived
Tirion fought the Legion for 1 day on Broken Shore and was killed

Also saying Tiron was a warrior turned Paladin vs Turalyon being a priest turned Paladin is a bit silly, Turalyon has literally been a Paladin for 1000 years now... he knows how to use a sword, meanwhile Tirion was what about 55 years old? So at best he had about 40 years worth of sword skills?

[Caerule]

I don't see how this is a contest. Yes, Tirion was a man of high faith and mastery of the Light. But mostly? He was an old man with a kick-ass weapon.
He didn't overpower or out-skill the Lich King. He broke free unexpectedly through a blessing of the Light and sundered Frostmourne with his weapon when Arthas didn't see it coming.

Does Turalyon have less faith than Turalyon? At this time I wouldn't think so. And he's been Lightforged. Has 1000 years more experience. Has an arguably better armor.

I don't see Tirion having any chance against Turalyon as he is now. All Tirion has going for him is the Ashbringer. Which yeah, has great striking power. Against evil targets, which Turalyon is not. But we've seen that Tirion's defense, sucks. He got insta-frozen by Arthas. His shielding failed against Krosus.

Just what do you think Turalyon has been doing these 1000 years? Do you think he has avoided threats of this scale as a commander of the Army of the Light, for 1000 years? There is simply no way that Tirion could best Turalyon.

[Skyduke]

Tirion is dead. Turalyon isn't. /thread

[cparle87]

like i just said above you, the army didn't stop a single invasion.

they were basically terrorists that hit and ran, killing small armies of demons(not even permanently) before heading back into hiding.

the legion still exterminated planets without issues, and invaded azeroth and outland with only azerothian resistance stopping them.

That's because the AotL is the hero of another story. We haven't seen any of their adventures of what they've been doing. To use a comparison in Star Trek, you're basically saying the entire Federation were just sitting around not doing anything the entire time Captain Kirk was visiting stars and stopping wars.

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Tirion wielded the ashbringer which was a pretty big power boost. He died to a pretty much no-name demon. Tirion also fought the Lich King alongside 25 heroes. The events of the game are canon. They battled the Lich King. They were killed. Tirion resurrected them and took the opportunity to shatter frostmourne. The freed spirits held the Lich King back while the heroes finished him.

Just because some in-game characters tell a different story doesn't make their version canon. If that was the case, the horde betrayed the alliance at the broken shore...

Terenas rezzed the players.

[Minikin]

I am not sure they can be compared on a 1:1 basis.

I believe they both had their strengths and weaknesses. But I also strongly believe that the way the game works and the so called "influence of the light" causes power changes. for example.

1. Ashbringer and its wielder: Before Tirion. Morgraine had it. Morgraine was not one of the paladins from Faol, Tirion and Turalyon were. After Tirion, the player champion holds the ashbringer and as per the book it is said that the ashbringer is stornger in the champions hand. Now two things from here. I THINK that if that day instead of Tirion, Turalyon was present to face Arthas the ashrbinger would have worked for him just as well, HOWEVER, would Darion have thrown the sword to him? Also players present a bit of an oddball scenario given the game revolves around us (and we pay subscription fees so...) the ashbringer issue kind of works and fails.

2. Influence of the light: Tirion powered by the light as per his prayer "Grant me one final blessing", you see him charged up, and he blasts frostmourne apart. Arthas cant believe it. Turalyon when he sees Lothar die to the doomhammer, receives a similar surge as per the chronicle and takes him down, and powers up his troops. I believe this is where they differ the most.

Paladins are defined by their librams. "Each libram represented a core trait of the Silver Hand that Faol challenged his students to become the living embodiment of. Turalyon was given the Libram of Protection. Tirion was given the Libram of Retribution"

Tirion is a more upfront attacker while Turalyon is more on the team support style. This is shown a bit in the game as Tirion, even though as a paladin brings people together, but often is at the front of a fight. Turalyon in his stories and on Argus is along with the player and his army. And lightfoged.

Lightforged seems like a power boost but there is a bit of an assumed problem here. Assumed. Because Xera seems to have an affect on this. When Xera was reformed Turalyon's eyes changed. Same when she was destroyed. Maybe it was compulsion? As pointed out in the audio book? Or Maybe a power change?

All in all based on this, I think its hard to say which is stronger than which. Given that they have had their moves and issues. I mean Tirion is the ashbringer. But hes killed by Krosus. Who we kill later. Turalyon is supposed to be this 10000 year old warrior lightforged but imprisoned by a pitlord and Alleria breaks him out. But at the same time, Tirion has also shattered frostmourne and Turalyon has lead multiple battles and won.

I think in the end it just comes down to preference and which one you can chose as a hero you relate to.

[Skyduke]

If Turalyon had been Horde, the title of this thread would have been Turalyon > Tirion, btw.

[Deleted]

How much of the Raid you done?Hell even in LFR?Look around you, they are EVERYWHERE.

Yes we fight the bosses for Gameplay purposes but the Army of the Light is showed to be constantly fighting in Antorus.

Unlike ICC where we only see the Argent crusade once, Antorus we see them in every step of the way.

Seriously you are just cherry picking to make your argumment look strong but it does the oposite.

Cleared the raid in nm/hc every single week since release but ok lol.
And you're wrong, go buy glasses, they're nowhere near Eonar's sanctuary, they're nowhere near when we fight Hasabel,High Command,Imonar or Kin'Garoth either.
The Army of the light is only shown at the entrance of Antorus getting wiped by the Worldbreaker and fighting fodder demons, they can't even keep the place and follow us later on.

The Argent Crusade had their leader slay Arthas at the top of ICC, what did Turalyon aside of screaming "Champions ! Slay this creature !" or something amongst those lines?

Turalyon fought the Legion for 1000 years and survived
Tirion fought the Legion for 1 day on Broken Shore and was killed

Turalyon fought the legion with a cosmic army at his command, Tirion fought the Legion with medievial knights.
Varian also died on that day and he'd still murk Turalyon in 1V1 combat.


^I'm an Alliance only player so hell no.

[Skyforge1]

This means nothing. Sentinels have been patrolling Ashenvale for 10000 years and some how Orcs in shredders can Ambush them. In WoW logic, that simply means nothing at all.

Yes but if you had of read what I was referring to, replying to the OPs statement that Tirion is a better swordsman because he was a warrior before a priest it is completely relevant

[sam86]

So.. what to discuss here exactly? Does anyone see it wrong ? Or u just hate Turalyon and wanted to prove it more?
I agree 100% on everything u stated, Tirion is one of extremely few heroes in wow ever that i felt are real power, it is enough that he stand his ground against the biggest threat ever to Azeroth: Arthas
Arthas pwned everyone in wc3 and won, yet he struggled against Tirion, he would win no doubt but the fact that Tirion gave him a run for his money is enough to show Tirion is probably the most powerful paladin ever lived, Uther is still my fav however
Now that i think about it they should add Tirion to HOTS as a retardin variation, since Uther is mainly healdin with few dps choices

[Trassk]

I was bummed out when Tirion died, we've faught alongside him for several expansions, including vanilla. He was also someone who didn't fall into just being yet another faction pawn like Jaina, he defied his own kingdom for his ethical beliefs.

Turalyon has never done anything like that, he isn't a very grounded character like Tirion was, he's a follower of the light but thats not enough to make him a likable character. Infact it seems like he's a slave to the light more then anything, so instead of being a faction pawn, he's a pawn to something else.

If Turalyon died now I'd really not give a shit.

[CreatureLives]

I was bummed out when Tirion died, we've faught alongside him for several expansions, including vanilla. He was also someone who didn't fall into just being yet another faction pawn like Jaina, he defied his own kingdom for his ethical beliefs.

Turalyon has never done anything like that, he isn't a very grounded character like Tirion was, he's a follower of the light but thats not enough to make him a likable character. Infact it seems like he's a slave to the light more then anything, so instead of being a faction pawn, he's a pawn to something else.

If Turalyon died now I'd really not give a shit.

Turalyon hasn't really had much character development. Tirion has.

Most of the character development Turalyon has is WC2 and he's not even the same guy anymore. That's why I think the op is being silly comparing old things Turalyon did on Azeroth as a young dude to stuff Tirion did recently as a highly experienced older dude. Turalyon is 1000 years older now so he's pretty much an entirely different person. According to someone in this thread, Tirion is in his 50s? so that means Turalyon is about 20 times Tirion's age. 20 lifetimes have went by. Turalyon has seen and done so much since WC2.

Personally, I do like Tirion better as a character but that's because I don't really know current Turalyon. We only know the little we've seen of him in the final patch of Legion but we didn't really dig in to him personally a whole lot because there was no time to on Argus. Tirion has been all over the place in WoW so we've followed his story for years. I look forward to see what they do with Turalyon now that he's going to be on Azeroth again because I feel like we're basically meeting a whole new character.

[Niroshi]

Man OP you really did everything to hype Tirion up. He's a cool character and I loved him but he's nowhere near the power level of Turalyon. Most of his actual strength was rooted in the Ashbringer.

1.) Tirion's origins as a Knight are entirely irrelevant. Combat prowess isn't some inherent thing, it's a skill. One that gets better over time as you practice, use it and learn. Tirion is simply outmatched there because he just didn't live as long.
2.) He lived as a hermit in the middle of the Plaguelands. He wasn't fighting back as much as surviving under their nose. He wasn't ramboing the Scourge or something.
3.) He didn't overpower Darion. If you go back and listen to the audio from that quest, it's very clear that Ashbringer is rejecting Darion. It refuses to spill the blood of Paladins and he can't control it. I don't even think Tirion is actually fighting Darion at that point, I think it's just the general melee of NPC Paladins. He calls for the Death Knights to rally to him because he's basically lost his struggle with the Ashbringer.
3.) He gets in one hit on the Lich King before the Lich King fucks off. Arthas wasn't strong enough to handle Light's Hope, like how the player DK isn't strong enough to handle it. Little to do with Tirion since it would've happened regardless. We know it would've happened regardless because it happens to us when we try to invade it.
4.) All of your other stuff about the Lich King was the Ashbringer.
5.) Neither Varian, Saurfang, Garrosh, Thrall nor the PCs had the Ashbringer. By virtue of that he would've been the strongest champion, but do you seriously believe that 50ish year old Tirion was a stronger fighter than Varian, Thrall or Garrosh? Two of those characters are successful former Gladiators. It's the Ashbringer that sets them apart.


Thing is Turalyon's been missing from the story for ages. Tirion had expansions and many questlines to go into his character and get you used to him. It helped that he was always neutral so no faction fanboyism kicked in. The issue with Turalyon going forward is he is Alliance, so all of his character development will get him labeled crazy or evil or something because disliking the Horde is equal to those things now to the player base. He's probably got a lot of time to grow, so it's premature as fuck to try to compare the two story-wise. Power level wise an objective look shows Tirion lacking. Turalyon might've been fucked up in Antorus but Tirion died to a bitch level demon at the beginning of the invasion. He never would've even made it to Antorus. Especially without Ashbringer.