Is Antorus proof of what many players argued over before its release?

[Paula Deen]

Antorus is proof that hard raids are shit. ToS was extremely difficult barely any guilds cleared it on Mythic and its regarded by most as terrible. I have heard no complaints of similar things from Antorus.

[elaina]

The real issue I am pretty sure is that titanforging, artifact weapons, and possibly other factors like legendaries made it way too difficult for blizzard to tune bosses or projecting relative player power.

[GoForIt1]

People should stop judging the difficulty of raids while looking at method's and similar guilds progress, if they made raids for these guilds they would be almost impossible, and yet, why did only 12 guilds clear it if its "too easy"?
Antorus is one of the best tuned raids in a while, in my opinion. Not super hard like ToS, no stupid one shot mechanics which kill all fun for everyone, fights are mostly dynamic and fun.No one liked Emerald Nightmare difficulty, raids should be challenging, but theres a point where "too hard" becomes boring.

[Nnyco]

wasnt c'thun killed day one after he was fixed? so much about old raids were harder

[Accendor]

Please post your 11/11M character. Thank you!

You do realize that you do not need a 11/11 m clear character to make this statement and still be right, yes?
I prefer encounter design in antorus strongly to ToS, because I hated the oneshot mechanics where one person could wipe the entire raid and I think Antorus is a fun raid. My guild is clearly not rushing things in mythic, but we usuall kill the last boss close to the next patch (except ToS, we didn't get KJ and never went back since Antorus is up). We are surely not pro players but each and everyone realized that Antorus is _way_ easier than ToS. At least the first 7 bosses that we got at the moment, which is more than half of the raid.
Yes, perhaps the last 3 bosses will be harder than Avatar and KJ, but to be honest: I doubt it.

[Jtbrig7390]

You do realize that you do not need a 11/11 m clear character to make this statement and still be right, yes?

Yes you do.

You can't sit there and say the raid is easy when you haven't cleared the raid. That would be like my saying Bloodborne/Souls series is easy without playing it.

The OP and others in this thread are judging the difficulty of the raid based on the top guild clearing it. When they likely haven't even cleared NM of it yet.

[Jastall]

To be fair, the idea that if one do mistake = wipe exist since ever, i didn't raid Antoros yet (no idea if i'll, account frozen for now) but if there is no mistake = wipe i'll be surprised

That's not really the case. Yeah, there are deadly mechanics that will kill you very quickly if you mess up in Antorus (Aggramar's adds for instance) but ToS was just on the next level of unforgiving difficulty.

What made it (well mostly Avatar and KJ) so hard is that one player making even a small mistake on many mechanics meant an instant wipe, no ifs no buts. One person steps out of beam at bad time? Wipe on Avatar. One person is 1 second late to Rain of the Destroyer/Armageddon? Wipe. Place yourself even slightly wrong during KJ? You're dead and this will cascade into a wipe. The person who gets blades or DPS debuff on KJ is not at the exact spot they should be? Likely kills several people, wipe. The safe spot for beams on PH3 KJ is not pixel perfect? Get lazored, bro.

Overall I'm definitely enjoying Antorus more. It could have probably been a bit harder, but not much harder. Difficulty is fine, but frustrating game design is not, and Mistress, Avatar and KJ were definitely frustrating bosses on Mythic. Whereas bosses like Elisande, Star Augur and Gul'dan in Nighthold were hard, but never frustrating IMO.

[Trickname]

A few loud whiny people on mmo that probably don't raid above normal at most doesn't = a lot of players

[Queen of Hamsters]

The fastest clear to any mythic raid to date(and heroic/hard modes prior to mythic difficulty).


Alot of players felt the game had been gutted in terms of difficulty and general playstyle.

does Antorus being so easy to clear the final nail in the coffin to make players and Blizzard see what WoW has become in the eyes of many?

The 99% condemning the game as "gutted and too easy!!" based on what the 1% of the 1% manages to do, are not to be trusted. They clearly lack a substantial amount of functional brain matter.

[Deleted]

Oh, you mean soccer? Football is a different sport.

soccer and football are interchangeable in some parts of world, they both refer to ballsport where you kick on the ball, while others use rugby instead of footaball to describe sprot with the weird shaped throwing ball.

[Garybear]

idk all my friends quit because theres too many bosses with too many mechanics

[Balir]

I've got a couple of takes on this.
1) KJ mechanics have got guilds discipline and awareness WAY up, thus making some things fairly routine in Antorus that probably shouldn't be.
2) Heroic difficulty should've been the normal difficulty, and then scaling up from there.

The difficulty curve should've been more of a steady upward angle, but it's more of a flat line then a massive jump at the end.

[FelPlague]

I liked everything else about your post, but you have to consider that heroic 25 LK had an attempt limit, so isn't really valid for comparison.

Correct, also inflating the time to kill the boss because of that.
so without that lich king could have gone much more.

[TheFirstOnes]

Antorus actually seems to be at a good difficulty.

The bosses were certainly more fun than in ToS.

Thank you.

/10chars

[Battlebeard]

These posts are like; hey, Bayern München beat Barcelona 7-0, I guess that means my local amateur football team of friends can beat Barcelona 7-0 as well.

Good reference I honestly don't think anyone worldwide dislike Barcelona FC more than me


On topic, for those who say it's easy, this raid is not super easy. Try pugging HC... it's a nightmare...

[kamuimac]

The fastest clear to any mythic raid to date(and heroic/hard modes prior to mythic difficulty).


Alot of players felt the game had been gutted in terms of difficulty and general playstyle.

does Antorus being so easy to clear the final nail in the coffin to make players and Blizzard see what WoW has become in the eyes of many?

nobody gives a f.... about mythic difficulty

thats the only thing that antorus is proving

[Mercane]

To be fair, the idea that if one do mistake = wipe exist since ever, i didn't raid Antoros yet (no idea if i'll, account frozen for now) but if there is no mistake = wipe i'll be surprised

I mean- sure the penultimate boss usually has something like this and the final boss- absolutely. However, almost every encounter in Tomb had something that would wipe the raid if handled improperly- and quite often that could be a single mistake, by a single person. Some of my more memorable mythic kills were main tank dead, one healer and two dps left, boss at 1% CAN. THEY. GO. ALL. THE. WAY?

The real issue with Legion is encounter design and a very vocal and passionate fan base that is apparently never happy- things are always too hard or too simple. Although not tuning a raid for the top 1% of the 1% is probably a good thing.

[Nurvus]

Only a tiny minority of players likes difficult content, but they seem to be over-represented on the forums.

You mistake difficult with obnoxious and/or unrewarding.

Anyone will enjoy difficult content if it is well designed and tuned around proper gear progression.

Anyone will hate difficulty represented by
a) someone misses Y mechanic it's a wipe
b) improving gear barely matters until it allows you to skip phases - usually because of a)
c) RNG (Titanforged) over RNG (sockets) over RNG (Tertiaries)

[Deleted]

Oh, you mean soccer? Football is a different sport.

Nope, I mean football. The game that you play with your feet, that one.

[Vynestra]

I don't think difficulty matters to msot people, if it's fun or not.

ToS was hated by everyone, because of it's difficulty being so many "one whoops and its a wipe!" and they changed that, so it's "easier" because it's more forgiving, people like antorus a lot more, it seems to be a better raid to everyone but people like you, a small majority of whiners who are going to wine no matter what.