The state and fate of Lordaeron in BFA.

[Deleted]

It's possible Adverse Possession laws might not exist on Azeroth, but the legal term originated in Medieval England... so... y'know. The principle exists.

In common law it was 12 years, in England, before the Land Registration Act in 2002, which codified it specifically into a method for a Common Law Adverse Possessor to actively register as the current owner of the land, rather than having it remain Unregulated entirely.

Though, again, I'll note that it's -arguable- that Adverse Possession comes in to strip away Calia of her ownership rights.

All of that said, I think the Forsaken would -welcome- her return as a member of their Royal Family. SYLVANAS wouldn't welcome her, and might try to kill her or raise her. But the Forsaken? They'd probably be pretty happy to have her come back, hopefully marry, and raise a new royal family.

They just probably wouldn't depose Sylvanas to install Calia as their monarch, of course. They'd just have her around as a powerless figurehead that represents ties to a noble heritage.

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Stormwind was not the capital of the Alliance of Lordaeron. Lordaeron was.

And yeah. There -are- some Lorderonian citizens in Stormwind who either have claim to lands in Lordaeron, or do not if they renounced such rights and became citizens of Stormwind (Though that depends on the laws of Stormwind itself). If they're still refugees, though, they'd have the right to try and reclaim their land. Stormwind, though, does not, even if some small portion of it's populace is Lordaeronian by birth or marriage.

she should use Tŷ unnos in lorderon whilst its abandoned as long as she can get the hearth burnin by sun up and can throw that axe across tirisfall shes good

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... I think -that's a bit specious...

All we know about the Desolate Council is that they've been tending to the day to day management of the Undercity while Sylvanas is gone and don't agree, 100%, with the "Be immortal at any cost" aspect of her plan.

Nothing about that screams the "They're going to overthrow Sylvanas!" rhetoric I keep seeing across the boards.

it would be a Jacobite type situation with half for and half against probly lead to civil war if i was a betting man

[Teaon]

Or none since she's basically thrown her people away when they needed a leader most, after Arthas killed their father. I wouldn't even be surprised if she's a half-heiress and her mother was a mistress of some kind.

Thing is, gaining the legitimacy to claim the city as your "lost throne", even if she didn't care before, she can easily find the legitimacy for the city claim for the alliance states as the only Menethil alive, hell even if she get married and born a son with balls, he can claim Lordaeron.

its about gaining the legitimacy and the support, and by the looks of it, Calia and - still not born kids- have it the easiest.

[Aquamonkey]

It's been more than 12 years. Calia Menethil probably has no legal claim to the land as she hasn't exercised her rights as the owner to eject the Adverse Possessors.

The royal families in Warcraft don't own the land in their kingdoms. Sure the monarchs probably have their own plots of land, but the majority of the kingdom's territory is owned by the various noble houses. In Lordaeron, the Barov family owns Brill, Caer Darrow, Southshore, and Tarren Mill.

[Aquamonkey]

its about gaining the legitimacy and the support, and by the looks of it, Calia and - still not born kids- have it the easiest.

The Alliance doesn't need it. They can procure any relative or even promote a fake relative, completely ignoring any direct lines of inheritance. They've done it before.

[Teaon]

The Alliance doesn't need it. They can procure any relative or even promote a fake relative, completely ignoring any direct lines of inheritance. They've done it before.

The Alliance doesn't need it, BUT she does, if she wants to invoke a war for the city, i mean Anduin can go like "fk yourself, i am the ruler of this land", but she can create inner Alliance conflict and gain support from Alliance factions by going like "hey its my dad lost throne, and i am his daughter".

inner faction conflicts are interesting, but i doubt blizzard want to go that way.

[Deleted]

Anduin can go like "fk yourself, i am the ruler of this land", but she can create inner Alliance conflict and gain support from Alliance factions by going like "hey its my dad lost throne, and i am his daughter".

inner faction conflicts are interesting, but i doubt blizzard want to go that way.

Not much of a faction conflict when you consider:
- Most if not all of Lordaeron's populace are now affiliated with the Horde
- The 'rightful' queen went into hiding whilst her lands were defiled by the plague
- The only humans in the Alliance belong to the kingdoms of Stormwind and Gilneas, and will support their kings
- All other human kingdoms are extinct

Only thing that'd make sense is a betrothal to continue the Menethil line, whatever value that holds after Arthas went rogue.

[huth]

- The only humans in the Alliance belong to the kingdoms of Stormwind and Gilneas, and will support their kings
- All other human kingdoms are extinct

*cough* Kul Tiras *cough*

[Aquamonkey]

Sylvanas should resurrect Arthas as a mindless puppet.

[Zyky]

Thing is, gaining the legitimacy to claim the city as your "lost throne", even if she didn't care before, she can easily find the legitimacy for the city claim for the alliance states as the only Menethil alive, hell even if she get married and born a son with balls, he can claim Lordaeron.

its about gaining the legitimacy and the support, and by the looks of it, Calia and - still not born kids- have it the easiest.

Except most of the people currently inhabiting it are the people of Lorderon and they took Sylvanas to lead them, there's no telling where the story is going to go, for all we know Horde lose it shortly then claim it back.

[Teaon]

Not much of a faction conflict when you consider:
- Most if not all of Lordaeron's populace are now affiliated with the Horde
- The 'rightful' queen went into hiding whilst her lands were defiled by the plague
- The only humans in the Alliance belong to the kingdoms of Stormwind and Gilneas, and will support their kings
- All other human kingdoms are extinct

Only thing that'd make sense is a betrothal to continue the Menethil line, whatever value that holds after Arthas went rogue.

if you think about it, and to make it simple

- Menethil owns Wyrnn for rebuilding their fallen kingdom and giving it back.
- Conflict can be created by Stormwind and Gilneas for Lordaeron control, then you can shove the strongest contest Menethil only living Calia.
- There are probably Lordaeron refugees somewhere, cant be all deceased.
- The Queen couldn't act when her brother actually took control of Lordaeron.
- Jaina(Kul'Tiras) could easily side with Menethil, because of former beef with the alliance for tolerating the horde.
- She can find the wildhammer support.

depends on how good talker she is.

[yetgdhfgh]

Seeing how its Stromgarde that gets rebuilt and then fought over by both sides that tells me that Lordaeron will most likely be abandoned by the horde and not rebuilt by the allies.

Strategically there aint much for the allies to take except a rotting dead land and a city full of decay, death and disease plus if i was Sylvanas i would nuke the place with plague before withdrawing so nobody could live there ever again!

[Aquamonkey]

- The Queen couldn't act when her brother actually took control of Lordaeron.

Calia isn't queen of anything. The line of succession skipped her for her younger brother. Terenas' death automatically put Arthas as head of state.

[Teaon]

Calia isn't queen of anything. The line of succession skipped her for her younger brother. Terenas' death automatically put Arthas as head of state.

i just quoted this title from the guy i quoted.

and what is Khadgar origins? isn't he a Lordaeron citizen before going to Kirin'tor? cant remember.

[Deleted]

*cough* Kul Tiras *cough*

Who are currently not part of the 'modern' Alliance, nor will they be until the warfront in Arathi has reached its peak.

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if you think about it, and to make it simple

- Menethil owns Wyrnn for rebuilding their fallen kingdom and giving it back.
- Conflict can be created by Stormwind and Gilneas for Lordaeron control, then you can shove the strongest contest Menethil only living Calia.
- There are probably Lordaeron refugees somewhere, cant be all deceased.
- The Queen couldn't act when her brother actually took control of Lordaeron.
- Jaina(Kul'Tiras) could easily side with Menethil, because of former beef with the alliance for tolerating the horde.
- She can find the wildhammer support.

depends on how good talker she is.

- True, though 'giving it back' is open to interpretation.
- Any conflict between Stormwind and Gilneas was neutralised the moment Genn bent the knee to the High King, who also happened to be king of Stormwind.
- I'd say the Forsaken janitors did a pretty good job cleaning the remaining litter in Southshore and the Plaguelands.
- As someone said, Arthas inherited the crown by lineage and became king of Lordaeron in name when he stabbed daddy.
- Kul Tiras would have no motivation to help either party until post BfA questline. The point of them having a say in Alliance matters is that they'll swear fealty to the High King, once again concidentally king of Stormwind.
- Unless the Wildhammers had a reason to go rogue, very unlikely.

[Teaon]

Who are currently not part of the 'modern' Alliance, nor will they be until the warfront in Arathi has reached its peak.

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- True, though 'giving it back' is open to interpretation.
- Any conflict between Stormwind and Gilneas was neutralised the moment Genn bent the knee to the High King, who also happened to be king of Stormwind.
- I'd say the Forsaken janitors did a pretty good job cleaning the remaining litter in Southshore and the Plaguelands.
- As someone said, Arthas inherited the crown by lineage and became king of Lordaeron in name when he stabbed daddy.
- Kul Tiras would have no motivation to help either party until post BfA questline. The point of them having a say in Alliance matters is that they'll swear fealty to the High King, once again concidentally king of Stormwind.
- Unless the Wildhammers had a reason to go rogue, very unlikely.

Genn has a what so i call a "twisty" personality, he is only acting with the king because he needs him the most, i mean he closed the walls on the Alliance during the 2nd war, he can twist when he get back up on his feet, arrogant hardly become kind, and a old experienced man like him, why would he serve under a kid? esp if Anduin did something he doesn't like.

Kul'Tiras swearing allegiance to the king of stormwind doesn't soulbind them, but that doesn't mean they dont have a say in matters inside the alliance, the alliance is more of a council than a monarchy "warchief" hordish, and Jaina probably still hates Varian Wyrnn for sparing the horde, and not to mention his peace-seeker Boy.

Wildhammer don't need to go rogue, but more, be the voice of Menethil legitimacy in the dwarf society, seeing they were former neighbors and friends with Menethils

[huth]

Who are currently not part of the 'modern' Alliance, nor will they be until the warfront in Arathi has reached its peak.

They're still humans, though.

[Deleted]

Calia isn't queen of anything. The line of succession skipped her for her younger brother. Terenas' death automatically put Arthas as head of state.

And with Arthas and Terenas' death, Calia is the only successor left. Technically Calia isn't queen. She is Princess by birthright and bears the claim of Lordaeron.

To become Queen she actually must take her throne, by whatever means that is.

[Aquamonkey]

And with Arthas and Terenas' death, Calia is the only successor left. Technically Calia isn't queen. She is Princess by birthright and bears the claim of Lordaeron.

To become Queen she actually must take her throne, by whatever means that is.

Assuming their rules of succession even allow a woman.

[Deleted]

Genn has a what so i call a "twisty" personality, he is only acting with the king because he needs him the most, i mean he closed the walls on the Alliance during the 2nd war, he can twist when he get back up on his feet, arrogant are hardly become kind, and a old experienced man like him, why would he serve under a kid? esp if Anduin did something he doesn't like.

Kul'Tiras swearing allegiance to the king of stormwind doesn't soulbind them, but that doesn't mean they dont have a say in matters inside the alliance, the alliance is more of a council than a monarchy "warchief" hordish, and Jaina probably still hates Varian Wyrnn for sparing the horde, and not to mention his peace-seeker Boy.

Wildhammer don't need to go rogue, but more, be the voice of Menethil legitimacy in the dwarf society, seeing they were former neighbors and friends with Menethils

Because Genn probably got some sense knocked into him after the Cataclysm:
Pre-Cata: strong, proud leader with an heir and a kingdom safe from outside threats.
Post-Cata: old dog who not only nearly lost his humanity to the worgen curse, but whoms arrogance cost him his kingdom, people and son.

Yes, he loathes Sylvanas and as a true oldie clings to his hate of the old Horde to justify dismantling the new one, but he realises Anduin's potential and may even grow so fond of him he'll become a surrogate son. He may manipulate him with or without knowing, but perhaps this'll become his arc/downfall.

For a 'council' government, it's pretty ironic the position of High King is based on lineage.
Jaina never hated Varian, and she adored Anduin. She became a vengeful soul of her former self, but she'd never genuinely hate either of them for sparing people, Horde or no. She suffered a trauma after getting nuked, and that makes her think the destruction of the Horde is the right answer to end the conflict.
In fact, I think Anduin and Jaina's relation will only improve because she'll find out he grew a spine.

The ironic issue among the Alliance is that there's inherit biggotry even among themselves. The problem is we'll never truly see it surface because Blizzard never writes them to be biggots among themselves. The Wildhammers would never mingle in human politics unless it'd positively influence them directly.

[Teaon]

Because Genn probably got some sense knocked into him after the Cataclysm:
Pre-Cata: strong, proud leader with an heir and a kingdom safe from outside threats.
Post-Cata: old dog who not only nearly lost his humanity to the worgen curse, but whoms arrogance cost him his kingdom, people and son.

Yes, he loathes Sylvanas and as a true oldie clings to his hate of the old Horde to justify dismantling the new one, but he realises Anduin's potential and may even grow so fond of him he'll become a surrogate son. He may manipulate him with or without knowing, but perhaps this'll become his arc/downfall.

For a 'council' government, it's pretty ironic the position of High King is based on lineage.
Jaina never hated Varian, and she adored Anduin. She became a vengeful soul of her former self, but she'd never genuinely hate either of them for sparing people, Horde or no. She suffered a trauma after getting nuked, and that makes her think the destruction of the Horde is the right answer to end the conflict.
In fact, I think Anduin and Jaina's relation will only improve because she'll find out he grew a spine.

The ironic issue among the Alliance is that there's inherit biggotry even among themselves. The problem is we'll never truly see it surface because Blizzard never writes them to be biggots among themselves. The Wildhammers would never mingle in human politics unless it'd positively influence them directly.

Doubt Anduin grew a spine, he is still the peace guy, he probably issued the war because the circumstances forced him to, he is high king now, not prince, he will probably relent on the first peace talk message.

and guess who will rage and flip the tables? defo Genn and Jaina.